I'm sorry but you really made LOLed. You know why? This is a revenge story. Of course, she won't go defensive. I never got your self-defense whatever because she wasn't really aiming for it. She wasn't pretending to be whatever person you wanted her to be because she isn't. She is a person who was consumed by revenge because people did something back to her. Even in her 2nd lifetime, some people continued to treat like they did in the past. So, there is really no incentive for her to take the higher ground because she knows she'll be treated like a doormat just like before. If she had done the same as her past life, I'll be calling her stupid. I understand your morals don't sit with that but that's you. Going after revenge means you don't give a flying fuck if you're doing the right thing because the only thing that mattered was to get even. I learned that from people who went the revenge way was they didn't give a shit about morality. They have different reasons but that's the common theme. Look at this way, if the villain and her family treated Aria with even the barest respect for her as a person or reached out, do you think Aria would go out for revenge? There is a possibility that she won't and there is the one where she could have been grateful to them. But that's not what happened. Mielle continued to be another asshole because she thought her actions are excusable on her projection to be a damsel in distress and some sniffles. You just handwaved Mielle's action, and that for me is very telling. But you do you. I also finished the story and liked its development but that's just only me. It's not something I think I would do in my real life but a story that kept me entertained.
I see you fail to see I bought up "self-defense" because you brought it up and used it to defend and excuse how her evil antics earlier as "done because of trauma and unavoidable death flag". Now you go on saying it's not an about self-defense but revenge. Well, thank you for quoting what I basically wrote. -_- I don't have any personal type of self defense, what I wrote was a definition of self-defense which happens to not be applicable in this case (which you also are aware but still used it earlier) because what she has donw is evil not because she is in danger aka Spoiler: aka out of spite to torment someone like a middle school grader unable to move on and have the maturity to set hatred aside. Using an equal amount of hatred and violence when something wrong is done to you, is a sign of immaturity and a mindset that is unable to let go of the grudges you have for being bullied. I don't know how old are but do you think responding to bullying with other bullying is what a matured conscious person would do? There is a foundation of hypocrisy in that. You condemn someone as horrible but you in turn does the exact horrible things. She's no better than Mielle in that spectrum. I replied earlier because you tried to backup Aira by saying it was for self defense because the threats was always there, which you and I, both wrote that WAS NOT the case. Since this is not about self defense. What she has done in the next chapter is for revenge and antogonizing without provocation. What I tried to correct is you saying it was unavoidable and done to save herself in a situation closing in. But that wasn't true, since she could avoid using violence countless times. I'm in no way questioning that this a novel is about revenge, what I tried to correct earlier was you bringing up self defence when it wasn't applicable in Aira's case. (since she continue to torture and torment with no provocation).
Eh? Which part did I say it was for self-defense? The doormat reply? Did you interpret that as self-defense? if interpreted it like that, I think you misunderstood. I answered that way because while you have the right to criticize her actions, it is somewhat unrealistic for me to believe Aria won't go for revenge. The doormat question was a rhetorical question for you because you think that she should just handwave her issues and she shouldn't harass people based on what has done to her in the past. My interpretation of your post is just 'get over it.' Your interpretation of my reply was self-defense. Which I find funny because my read of Aria has been an 'eye for an eye' person. Her attitude says it all from the moment she started her second life. You really expected her to go over the higher ground what happened to in her past? I don't. Even on her thoughts when she was dying, it was clear to me that she's gung ho for revenge. Which is the reason I am confused about u said I was saying self-defense? Nevertheless, if you want to continue this, you can DM me, This discussion has merit but I don't wish to derail the thread.
I meant this: "She has PTSD and is coping..." this was the reply you added to mine while I was talking about violence and harrassing done without provocations and while I was talking about how her actions of eye to eye doesn't stand. Because it doesn't apply to her actions that goes way beyond what she actually received. Since I was talking about those you replied with that sentence, I ofc interpret it that way like you implied that it is alright if she used violence and torment people because she coping with her trauma while I was talking about violence done with no provocations. I'm sorry but I'm not gonna use DM since I'd like for whatever this is to end here. Especially because my stand point remains the same about Aira's sociopathic tendencies that is not done out of self defense and I cannot take her side of her image of a victim since she practically has a fault in her tragedy. (that's why I replied to your reply that almost seems to try to justify bullying as something okay because of a trauma). I mean shes fault for not being self aware of what was happening around and didn't have the mentally to respond in kind thus the wolves targeted her. Is it Mielle fault? No, she has a fault in not realizing her position. That is Darwinism at work if you act like a fool and don't guard yourself, you're out. No one is a saint and its clear the novel is not portraying that. That's why from a personal stand point, I cannot see Aira in any way a complete victim of external entities since to begin with she complied to those which resulted in her end. i replied with the same fervor as you did since,earlier I found almost allarming how u replied with that sentence that seems to implied that it is okay to bully a girl in general "in real life" because you have pent up frustration and then justify it with self defense of what? Mingraine from frustrations? That is my interpretation of your reply. I was talking about violence done with not provocation then you replied " wha she shouldn't be dormant" etc and "she has ptsd and coping with trauma. If I'm talking about a retaliation for one's own safety then you tried to defend Aira with that reasoning... English is not my main language so I could have misinterpreted it but that's how I see it earlier and from your already previous replies glorifying deviant behaviors & (just like how it already emerged it) is quite allarming all together, this thirst for gore, violence, bullying, torturing psychologically and physically mindset... "Flawed characters are cool since it is unique and having sociopathic heroine is good since no one is sinless and it being deviant shouldn't be something to be ashamed... " the reason why there aren't many characters written with this mindset is because it leads to an outcome of being outcasted and it is an image that no group will encourage. The reasons I also believe this an amateur written novel that has no editors is because NO ONE (publisher) would absolutely publish a story with a linear violent mindset Aira has, since it would be seen as propagation of a view of the world that is absolutely not accepted in society or in any group of people. Take death note, the police prevailed, code geass, the tyrant died,... They all died. Plus Aria's sociopathic approach is characterize by the lack of any remorse and it emerged victorious in the end. No one smart enough would publish a story like that since the editors and the publishing itself will be subjected to criticisms since the novel present itself as a story for teenage girls that age vary from 12-20...
She’s “sociopathic” probably because she died once, her mother murdered in the past by the people she trusted the most? Trusted as in, they manipulated her into behaving the way she did, which what brought her to destruction, and only revealed on her death door that it was all planned, she was, her life and her mother’s life were nothing but a mere tools that was played in their hands. As it have not happened yet that a murdered person came back to life, but I’m pretty sure if it did, to be merciful against those who killed them would be the last thing they’ll do. She can’t let her guard down and has to constantly planned something against them because otherwise it will be her being harmed again like the first life. She didn’t went for them in the first life like she did now, yet they killed and her mother and made her go down in a humiliating way. They weren’t merciful to her in the past and that’s where she learnt it from. If we look from third point of view I think it’s hard to accept some forms of her revenge. But if we tried to see it from her view, be in her shoes, it’s rather hard to believe that she’ll become a saint towards those who had harmed and killed her in the past.
So guys, I read this novel a few months ago. Actually, I found it quite entertaining and interesting. Yeah, the FL was the bitch type with all those schemes and stuff but personally I liked her. Atleast, she wasn't that crybaby type FL we usually get to see in novels/manhuas. Well ofcourse everyone has their own opinion on this and I respect that. The novel is pretty nice. The story development is a bit slow but it gets interesting over time. Spoiler: End of Aristocratic Faction So basically, when the news that Asher was gonna marry Aria reached Isis, she devised a plan along with other Aristocrats to destroy the crown prince. She received some kind of letter which had a quite colourful seal. It was from Kindgom of Croa. They planned that the army of Croa would attack the Empire with the help of Aristocrats and hence end the reign of the weak Emperor. In return, Isis would marry the King of Croa. Then there was a part when Isis went to Croa to meet the King and Mielle went there with her disguised as her maid. (I actually don't remember that part well so I'm just gonna skip it.) Well, what happened was that they brought Croa's soldiers that would attack the palace to the mansions of Aristocrats. They hid the soldiers there and waited for the time to come when they would attack the palace. But Vita (I don't know if it was the name of the person, correct me if I'm wrong), an important advisor of Aristocrats, was a person who worked for the crown prince. This whole Croa thing was actually a scheme planned by them. Nobody doubted Vita even till the end of the Aristocracy. Croa couldn't enter into a war with the Empire because it was merely a small Kindgom and they couldn't bear the consequences. Also, there was some sort of agreement (I guess).The King already knew about Asher's scheme. To summarise, this whole thing was planned to catch all the Aristocrats in the crime of treason. They were very successful as Asher had already deployed Empire's troops and the rebellion ended without success. At the end, many important Aristocrats were publically executed including the family of Duke Frederik. Aria saved Cain and Mielle but as a part of scheme. She actually just wanted to make them suffer more and die more painfully ( Well that was really shitty but our FL was actually the villain, right?). Oscar survived because he coordinated with the crown prince. However his title was taken and he was deprived of his noble status. He became a commoner after that. After this, there was no mention of him in the novel. So, after this whole thing, Aria went to Croa to find ther father and her family and in her return, she got a great wedding proposal from Asher. She became the crown princess and there we had our happy ending. Hope this helped.
During these past months of lockdown I've really been into reading manhwas/isekais (almost 24/7, my eyes are burning) and Mielle truly is one of the most awful villainesses I've seen ! seriously why couldn't she just be nice to Aria ? Help her integrate in society from the beginning. She made wrong choices and reaped what she sowed. I like this manhwa's moral, kinda like 'don't judge a book by its cover'. Looking forward to the next chapters and to the development of the relationship Aria x Asher. The current plot of the webtoon (like Spoiler: spoiler chap. 33 her going to the nobles meeting organized by Asher, to demonstrate her knowledge about economics, politics... ) happens around chapter 80 in the novel if I recall well. So the author is going way faster in the manhwa. Can't wait to see what awaits. to be exact about what I said there, I just checked : when he it's exactly on chapter 87 of the novel
@Fearless_Sten This novel is completely translated by QI. Don't mention sites that rehost paid English novel translations on this forum.
Well just refresh your memory on all those chinese novels where the Di (first legitimate daughter) bullies and tortures all the shu(concubine) born daughters for no good reason other than the fact that their mothers were second wives. And think in Mielle's point of view. Living with her loving father and brother like a princess. and all of a sudden her daddy decides to get married and to a prostitute nonetheless. What's worse is that she has a daughter and that girl is actually prettier than her, in a society that women are only valued for their beauty and social standing. She schemes things and gets Aria to bully her while she acts like a white lotus. But bear in mind that she did bully her. Yes she was instigated by Mielle's maids . But Aria did do these things. She never loved Mielle or her new family and she wanted to act like the new arrogant miss. They are basically both evil. (I don't hate Aria) And I think that her revenge is justified bec. if she doesn't then Mielle isn't gonna leave her alone or anyone else from the aristocratic society. To me this story is very real , bec. people don't stop bothering you unless they make sure you have the power to stop them if they do. What's unrealistic though is the whole revenge elaborate plans. IRL it doesn't work out. you can just retaliate for a situation once or something but to plan and totally ruin someone's life with every detail is very hard , otherwise we'd really have to be careful!
yea you've got a point. They're both evil and bully each other. Plus (it's a thing I often think about, not only for tvrth but basically every manhwa, tv show, book...) the angle of the story is made for us to prefer Aria of course, but what if Mielle were the heroine ? Maybe we would pity her with her backstory (her mum died, dad remarried with a prostitute, everyone compares her with her 'sister'...). For instance, you take "I don't want to be Empress !" (idk if you know it). The story angle is made so that we prefer Leana, but what if the MC was Mia, who popped up in this strange world ? We'd definitely want her to date the Emperor. Same with "The abandoned empress" and Jieun... But well when it comes to TVRTH I, of course, favor Aria. Plus I've personally read the novel and I can tell you : they might be both evil, but Mielle's a reaaal b*tch.
I agree on the whole but I don't think 'evil' is the right word for me. For me, both are looking for their self-interests and their self-interest happens to be in contrast to each other. 'Evil' is something I apply to megalomaniacs or people in power who have the means to inflict more damage to people. Of course, it's just me. For me, it's very easy to pinpoint that Aria wants to get out of poverty and climb the social ladder while punishing the people who tried to use her. She's gonna do all the dirty tricks in the book to do it. For Mielle, her self interest is to maintain the status quo (keep Aria in her 'rightful' place) and if she can marry above her means. That's what she grew into and she learned since childhood that she is above some people. Her ways are more refined than Aria and you could see it that she does her work behind smiles and 'kind' gestures. The angle of the story is called reader bias. Yes, most of the time, people will side on whoever the MC is because they are the focus of the story. The author will try to make the MC relatable to the MC, and they can pull it off depending on their writing strategy. Relating to the character is fine, projecting too much of your real-life into the MC, including personal morals, is a another. Edited to correct and add words
what chapter in the novel does it reveal that Mc is close with Ml, Chapter where The counts family and the servants will know including Oscar and Iris??
I dislike the fact that you failed to mention that Mielle is a psychopath. Mielle has always been treated well and has never been abused physically or psychologically just did it because of egoism about herself being better than Aria. No matter what happens Mielles goal from the start is to murder Aria and her mother and won't stop until that happens. For Aria that was not her goal until what happened to her and her mother. From Aria's POV it's more because Mielle got maids to constantly bully her which does things to people mentally and plotted the murder of her and her mother that tipped her off the edge so much. Aria might not have turned out this way if she got treated well. I personally think they are both not good people but situation wise I sympathise more with Aria.
I just finished the novel and it was *chef kiss* a breath of very cold, fresh air. Aria is one of a kind, and her dynamic with Mielle brings to mind the dynamic between some sisters in Chinese Novels, ngl, with the fakery and social stabbing. Oh, and White Lotus acts. Putting in my two cents on the "Which is Worse" discussion, in my humble opinion, I think they're just as bad, both Mielle and Aria, though Aria definitely has one up on Mielle in the Baddie Scale. Spoiler: Mielle vs. Aria, Baddie Scale Mielle was just a sheltered princess whose philosophy was basically "Ew, a commoner" and actively disliked (to the point of murder) her stepmother and stepsister, because of their economic background. Which is pretty elitist of a 14 year old, if you ask me. Mielle was raised happily, in cushy comfort, with knowledge at her fingertips, should she have just asked. Buuut she didn't, and didn't need to, because everyone was on her side. So she had everything on a plate served up to her pale little, dainty soft, easily breakable fingers. Aria, on the other hand, married in money via her Mother, and was pretty much a petty brat in her past life, and refused to smarten up, instead just relying on her looks. Which lead to a terrible reputation, her subsequent framing, then execution. Sis clawed her way to the tip-top like a deranged leopard, with one ally (ILYSM, SARAH) from the very beginning. And ngl, If I were in my death throes and my supposedly 'Saintess' sister just upped and said "I ruined your life ever since you moved into our house and killed your mom, for no other reason that you're lower-class people, haha! " I'd go John Wick on her the next time around. Nemo me impune lacessit. Aria isn't playing, even if it seems she is. Mielle is a petty villainess: bullying, executing, and hating for the sole reason of blood purity, and most of her schemes were just Isis pulling her strings. But Aria? Aria's the Queen Medb, the Morgana Le Fay, and the Morrigan in this story. She's petty, she's cunning, and she's out for blood, for the person who utterly RUINED her life in the first time around, and murdered her mother, leaving Aria alone, with zero mercy, and it's honestly refreshing to see an actual terrible person as a villainess and not just a misunderstood Noble Lady. Great Character, Terrible Person. Mielle : 1 Aria : 2