Spoiler Remarried Empress

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by midnight reader, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. orichan

    orichan Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry, I have to speak up here. The Hitler analogy is going too far and completely undermined the shit that Hilter actually did in history. ML was no where close that that in any sort of way. He stole magic and framed a few political enemies, not gas a whole race of people to death.
     
  2. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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    leave those shitty justifications, he killed people and you can't change that, that's a crime so if he existed in real life you would be simply supporting him for being a good husband and being handsome and being king take care of the things you read and support. You should never justify yourself by a murderer for very good justifications and the character development where it is left we have to be critical of the things we read and be conformists. the novel leaves you some teaching, what you are consuming is not teaching you anything?, the autor is justifying his actions with romanticized acts, Do you think that living with a murderer next to you is romantic?.
     
  3. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    Wait, when the hell did Heinley ever kill someone? Did he ever do that directly? Why don't I remember this?
     
  4. famine

    famine Well-Known Member

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    Heinley was preparing for a war and stealing magic from Navier's.. that might kill someone?
    I think the reason Navier forgive him for attacking her country is because he cancelled it himself. About being a murderer, I think either become a queen or a king itself might result in killing people since sometimes you have to make difficult decisions that require you to sacrifice one or two or a number for the safety of the people. This does not justify killings itself, but from the start they weren't exactly described as 'good' or 'bad' people, they are monarch... And Heinley was an opposing monarch from a neighbouring country that come to attack but fell in love with her, that is the core of the story itself.
     
  5. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    You have to read between the lines

    He was known as a cruel man. If people in medival times called him cruel you can guess what shit he pulled
     
  6. elyacuty

    elyacuty Well-Known Member

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    It’s a WAR..of course there’ll be people killed:blobconfused:
     
  7. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    Well, perhaps, but we're also aware of the whole false reputation thing going on as well. All the rumors and BS and things people say about others that may or may not be true as well. He was also known as a playboy and he didn't really seem like one either. Duchess Tunasia or whatever she was called was kicked out of a country due to rumors. People thought she had cheated. It was well known among the noble circles and so she was thrown out and divorced by her husband. So how reliable are rumors?
     
  8. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the but the rumours about his cruelty are true since even Navier acknowledges them
     
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  9. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    When does Navier say that it is true he's cruel? Where did it say what he did that was cruel? I don't remember reading such a thing (and it's been a while), so this is a genuine question and not a rhetorical one.

    The other thing as well is that I would also say that there are some differences between being cruel to an enemy and being cruel to just anyone. It depends a lot on what he did that counts as cruel.

    If I recall as well, Rashta always considered Navier as a cruel woman because she didn't treasure Soveishu and then even left and married Heinley immediately after her divorce. Then Rashta also found her cruel for saying "mean things" to her all the time. It wouldn't surprise me as well if Heinley was known as cruel for playing around with women's hearts and then heartlessly rejecting them later or other such things. You know, lacking tenderness for the fairer sex and such were things that were talked about and looked down upon by certain people who typically were nobles or poets.

    So I need to know the context of what makes him cruel.
     
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  10. Roy realer

    Roy realer Well-Known Member

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    What i don't understand, is how the money issued by Rasta for charity is found to be Naviers?

    I understand that Navier somehow instigated the investigation of the money, in retaliation for Rasta's attempt to assassinate her parents. but how did she seeded the doubt without getting herself involved
     
  11. kawaii12345

    kawaii12345 Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty easy it almost certainly came from Navier's personal accounts. It's not like she left a giant pile of coins in the room when she left. That's also why she told Trash to make certain it was done in the name of the imperial family. Everyone involved from the people benefitting, to the people handling the funds would be spitting blood

    Yes, the Hitler comparison is too much there's maybe a hundred people in history that can be compared to him(maybe as few as ten).

    That said, Heinley is like a guy that orders a terrorist bombing of the Mayo Clinic because doctors are a military asset. So not Hitler, but garbage nonetheless. Toss in the fact his motivation was to take Navier, Who was contentedly married to Shitheel at the time and it's an even worse picture of the world. As I said earlier it would be nice to get a side story where the mages see this as a personal attack on them, and organize revenge. They pretty much have to, just to discourage the next idiot

    On a personal note I really find the stories of the side characters to be more interesting. The protagonists have their plots worked out, those side characters caught up in the destruction caused by the leads have real interesting stories. How does Navier's dad deal with the mess his daughter's love life has left. How do the people Navier worked with deal with the fact their country's prosperity has been Hurt for decades by Heinly? What's left of Christa's family and how do they deal with the damage wrought so he could bring Navier in?

    Bottom line, neither Shitheel or Heinly are peo[le you would want running a country. Navier is kind of questionable as well. The thing she needed most was an intelligence network and she didn't have it. As it is she only got lucky finding out about Shitheel's plan. Even so, the first thing she should have done is stuffed Trashta so full of infertility drugs plants would die if she got close(seeing as they are a thing in this world and are available). Concubine fine, but think again about mother of the nation
     
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  12. Akesato

    Akesato Well-Known Member

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    The main cause of issues in the Eastern Empire was Duke Elgy, not Heinley. Duke Elgy is from Blue Behemian and is looking to make his country better by bringing down the empire even if just a little. The cooperated in the beginning, but they are still two separate people with different goals.

    Navier has a personal story with infertility drugs and probably wouldn’t use them because she was hurt by them. And despite being cold, cruel and heartless and showing no pity to the poor thing, she wasn’t cruel. She never thought of making viscountess Verdi pay for her betrayal. She also never actively looked for Rashta to hurt her with her words, even though everything she said was true but Sovieshu was too... infatuated to care?

    Sovieshu also somehow noticed that someone poisoned Rashta’s food, it was Koshar’s friend doing. He didn’t want to disclose her infertility because it would humiliate and stain questionable reputation of his mother, imagine what he will claim about Navier, possibly even demoting her family to commoners if not executing them. He has been terrorizing her family since long ago, he humiliated them because he doesn’t like that Koshar doesn’t like him so he sent the only heir of the influential family to the borders far away from the capital. He exiled the heir later, if the Troby were as arrogant and stupid as Duke Zmensia, Sovieshu would have not done that or wouldn’t get away with doing that. Instead they quietly endure because they care about the country and not their pride.

    I think the epilogues cover some side characters, there was a small arc about Duke Elgy at least, according to google translate. I would love to read more about many side characters too.
     
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  13. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    Doctors is too big a stretch. The mages aren't healers. I'm not even sure they've got healing specific mages. I'm sure some of them are doctors, but essentially quite a few of the mages in there go on to work for the government and the military. I don't know how a fire mage would be equivalent to a doctor. I suppose they could cauterize wounds if they have enough control, but it's a very different position.

    The thing about doctors is that they're almost exclusively around to help fix people up and heal them and save lives. The thing about the mages is that a lot of them wound up in the military for purposes other than saving lives all around. I suppose they would save the lives of their allies by building defenses and murdering the enemy but that's still different from doctors in general. A lot of the mages don't do healing I believe.

    It's also sealing magic in certain mages, not killing them. They could continue to live on as a normal person, but they can't be used as a weapon anymore. It's essentially non-lethally suppressing/nullifying the superpowers of a specific super-powered strikeforce. They retain all the knowledge and non-magic skills they had before. It's certainly upsetting, but it's very different from outright killing them. And most importantly, he stopped where he was instead of increasing the damage because he decided not to create a war and hurt Navier.

    Actually no, most importantly, we see that it is not an irreversible effect. After the war it could easily have been fixed. Though if it was me, I would absolutely not fix it. (Why the hell would I give enemy soldiers grenades, missile launchers, and massive artillery again after releasing them? Do I want to die and take my people with me?) From Evely's case we can see that she was able to get her magic back. That makes it pretty different from murdering as well. Once a person is dead you cannot bring them back. Once magic is gone, based on Evely's case, you can absolutely get it back if you know what you're doing. It's a reversible effect.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  14. Karolmm

    Karolmm Well-Known Member

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    I need some spoilers about khoshar navers brother
     
  15. Akesato

    Akesato Well-Known Member

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    Out of the known magic we have Evely's healing, probably one of the very few with that kind of magic. Heinely and co shapeshifters. Grand Duke Kampan and reading minds. Navier's ice magic. The Eastern Empire's main military threat is their mages, so they are mostly on the "destructive" side of the magic rather than "creative".

    In League of Legends, there is a region that badly suffered from magic wars to the point they all hate mages with passion and make them drink a poison that will take away their magic. Except magic is a part of their body and they end up in severe pain because of it, possibly dying in the end. In this novel, the magic extraction is painless and unnoticed. I'm not quite sure how the magic in their world works, if they can lose their magic forever, it means that they have limited pool of mana that can be drained. Then how do they channel mana for magic? Or is it like blood and is replenished over time if it still exists? Considering it can be returned, it's probably the case.
     
  16. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    So, I just read some more of what you said, previously I stopped the moment I saw that doctor line and went to respond to that. After another thirty or minutes or so, I actually realized I hadn't finished reading and came back to finish reading and responding.

    No, that was not his motivation for Heinley to nonlethally remove magic from mages. Nor was it his motivation for starting a war. He was planning to start a war way before he ever ran into Navier. He'd already started removing magic from mages in the country at least 5 years before he met Navier. In fact, it was when he met Navier that he started reconsidering starting a war and after he marries Navier, he decides he will not fight a war. He immediately stops his plan of removing magic from the Mages in the magic academy belonging to what was originally a country he was going to go to war with.

    Wait, what? Heinley hasn't hurt their country's prosperity for decades. Actually, the one who ended up screwing things up monetarily for the country and compromised it a lot was Rashta. Rashta gave strategic territory to Duke Elgy who was from Blue Bohemian (not the Western empire where Heinley was from). Rashta also used up a lot of the imperial family funds on bribes, hush money, and lavish spending on herself. If this is still about the mages, I suppose he's hurt their military might (without killing people), but I don't recall him doing anything that really hurt the Western Empire's wealth or prosperity.

    Why would she need to stuff Trashta full of infertility drugs? Trashta's kids weren't supposed to be able to ever inherit and weren't even supposed to be considered part of the Imperial family. The only way Trashta could have her kids in position would be if she was an Empress, but there weren't any previous examples of a concubine rising to that position without the Empress passing, and I don't think there was any of a commoner Empress. Plus, both Soveishu and Navier required years of training beforehand, so expecting someone to be so daft as to put an entirely untrained and mostly uneducated concubine who couldn't even read into the position of an Empress within a year's time was ridiculous.

    Even after everything, Navier was supposedly cold and all, but she didn't want to hurt others. Despite everything, she didn't really want to retaliate against Soveishu or Rashta. Once they were separate, she decided not to do anything unless they acted first. She was still even trying to set up funds and things as a stop-gap measure to help Rashta along so that she could, if she followed her directions, manage to do okay enough as an Empress. Navier's main concern was for the people of the empire.

    She was raised to follow the law, care for the people, and manage things well, diplomatically and internally to protect her people. It wasn't in her nature, and probably in some ways beneath her personal dignity to poison a concubine out of jealousy for a husband she was married only politically to.
     
  17. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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    have a little common sense he will invade an empire and everyone would be kindly left. for example: if someone comes to your house and tries to invade it, do you not fight because he is handsome?

    So if Queen Elizabeth killed, it would not be carried out as a murder because she is a monarch, so if someone is a monarch and tries to kill you, would you leave yourself? Do not try to romanticize the attacks. Navier is simply a war trophy. I will never fall in love with someone who comes to destroy my country that only happens in the manhwas. So this novel that teaching leaves us for life? Then do not tell me that you are reading this because they are handsome if that is why they refrain from criticism.

    So because it was a war, is death less valuable? You should see yourself Monster because every life has value, that is if it is a work that leaves you teachings and a real side of life and people. You never lived in a war to know the suffering it brings, if your parents killed them in a war you would have that same cheap excuse to defend the murderer, that doesn't justify anything
     
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  18. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    Evely can heal? Dang, it's been such a long time since I've read the stuff with Evely that I didn't remember what her magic was. That was the way I read it as well. I would say that probably most of the magic they get would statistically be offensive. You'd have elemental magics like wind, fire, water, ice, lightning or such, and those would mostly be trained for combat. Shapeshifting magic which is probably more like reconnaissance type magics depending on what form you could assume. But I think the shapeshifting magic is not as well known since the tribe Heinley hails from is considered a myth. Rather, that sounds like a bloodline based magic, and I think Heinley must have had a different type of magic. Considering that his magic/bloodline/tribe was considered a myth, he probably wasn't training that when he entered the mage academy to scope out the competition.


    I wonder if it's something like, internally you need to at least have a small amount of mana to resonate with/sense the mana in the world to control it. And humans who are mages have enough of this internal mana to manipulate it. The more internal mana you have, the stronger your magic power and your ability to manipulate external mana because of some sort of resonance. If so, then you just need to drain all the internal mana to the point it's below the necessary amount and then they won't be able to effect external mana or sense it.

    Or, it could be that internal mana is like a refillable container. What the sealing spell does is create some sort of a plug on the container to prevent internal mana from leaking out and being used. To fix it, Heinley had Evely wear a necklace to slowly crumble away that seal little by little so that her powers eventually returned and added a protective effect so that if another mage showed up and put their magic into it (and it was not Evely's personal mana) then it will immediately follow the path of mana and seal the intruding mage's magic.

    Honestly, a lot of it is unclear and we'd just have to theorize and guess on it unless we see more of the scenes involving magic sealing or a better translation. I'm stuck using google translate so it's possible some important details are missing for determining how magic works and how the sealing of it works.

    Do you remember reading anything about how magic worked in this story? I think some of it might be in the whole section where Navier got magic and was learning to train it, but I think it might have been left vague and more like "and she trained it" rather than a proper explanation. Magic is kind of mysterious in this novel and I don't know if more will be revealed later, or if some was revealed already and I forgot, or if I just need a pe
     
  19. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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    So are you going to trust what the novel says to justify what the character does? The character only shows us the pretty face, but the rumors of being a murderer should not be taken lightly but if they do not stop those rumors it is for something. and when the murderer is handsome no one believes it was him because they trust more than one face than the same events that happened
     
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  20. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    Wait, when the hell did it say he was a murderer. That was never in the novel. There wasn't a single rumor I remember reading that said Heinley is a murderer. What?

    Where are you getting these ideas? Where did you read this? Please give me a chapter or a chapter range at least or something to give me an idea of where this was said, because I do not recall Heinley ever being accused of murder.

    Well are we talking about directly killed with their own hands? Or ordering something that results in murder? Or in capital punishment which was used at that time because that was accepted as a valid and perfectly acceptable means of punishment.

    The local social and cultural customs we look back on doesn't make things good, right, or the best decision, but should at least be weighed ever so slightly if you're making moral judgements on another person in their time period. If they ordered the execution of a traitor, and that was the morally acceptable thing to do, saying they are personally evil and should feel bad and are a bad person for doing what they were taught was right I think that's a bit arbitrary.

    Navier was not a war trophy. There was not a war. There was no attacks between the countries from what I read either. I am not romanticizing attacks that never happened in the story. I'm busy not judging Heinley for things he never did. Rather, I don't know where you're getting some of these ideas from. Heinley did not kill people from what I can tell. Heinley also did not start a war. In fact, he chose to abandon his war for Navier.

    I'm genuinely extremely confused. Have we been reading the same story at all?

    Typically in wars, people die. In nature, people die. That is also considered normal. In life, living things often kill other living things, that's just nature as well.

    Killing others of their own kind is something that many species do. War does bring suffering, that is generally known. It may be cold, but this is a thing many species, not just humans, have done for thousands of years. Stopping wars is great and all, but a lot of wars are about obtaining resources for yourself or for your people. In a world with infinite resources, evenly distributed everywhere, I think war would be less likely to happen, but that isn't the world most people have.

    Also, killing people and how it's judged is often dependent on context. Actions taken in self-defense or in defense of others is generally looked upon more favorably than brutality meted out to an innocent and helpless party.

    Also, I think personal attacks and calling people monsters goes too far. Especially over a work of fiction where no real living creatures of any kind were actually hurt. Humans are a tribalistic species. When you turn a person into an "Other" you dehumanize that person and make it easier to justify harming that person. Humans are very prone to "Us vs Them." Humans use a lot of other-ing in order to harm others, silence them, and ignore them and justify being cruel. I don't appreciate that.

    Going forward, I would appreciate it if you do not call people you are discussing with a Monster. There is a person behind that screen, and perhaps it doesn't hurt them, perhaps it does. But I would appreciate it, if you would avoid such name-calling and personal attacks in the future.

    I think they stated a fact. I have yet to see such a thing as a bloodless war. Is it a war if no one fought and no one died? Even in economic wars people wind up getting screwed over, taking the fall, and sometimes even dying due to how negatively they were effected.
     
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