Spoiler Remarried Empress

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by midnight reader, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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    Your assumptions are simply explained because the author was lazy and she did not try to explain how the world of the novel develops. I just focused on an unreal romance
     
  2. Akesato

    Akesato Well-Known Member

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    Evely's magic magic was only hinted on recently and revealed later, when she traveled to the Western Empire to give Navier a gift and the carriage was broken, nobody was injured so she might have healed someone, at least that's what Viscount Landre (? Duchess of Tuania lover) assumed. Then later, when Navier was in comatose after Duke Zmensia's attack/assault, Sovieshu sent her to heal Navier. Considering the Eastern Empire's main force was magic forces, they most certainly were mages specializing in destructive magic, even if not that many, they boost the overall strength of the army.

    Heinley and magic academy is weird: he had to ask for Grand Duke Kapman's help with magic flows, even though he is also a top student, I find it confusing. Maybe specifically because he is from a bloodline of mages he doesn't understand how normal people function?

    The magic can be acquired in their world: through mana stones they can make a mage out of a non-mage but it seems to be a long process and the person needs to be exposed to the mana for an extended period of time. According to Navier's description of magic, she felt itchy in her fingertips/hands before unconsciously releasing magic from her hands. When she trained with Grand Duke Kapman, she felt the energy flow through her hands, but it didn't last long because Heinley interrupted them and was himself learning mana control. I haven't read last few chapters, but I assume there will be more information on that later because Navier gave premature birth while practicing mana control.
     
  3. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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    If he is a monarch how will he be accused of murder? if he is the law when you have seen a president in the EU sent to prison for their crimes with all the evidence in the world "that has never happened", the work of Heinly's mother (the author) was simply to beautify her ML, because she never showed us a bad facet of her character and made him look like a prince charming who came to the rescue of this poor noble woman with all the education in his world and support. she who was defeated by an illiterate slave and without allies
     
  4. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    That was not my question. My question is where did it ever say he was rumored to be a murderer?

    You accuse him of murder and I do not recall him ever being accused of such or even having a rumor of doing so in the novel. I ask you where even the rumor or anything at all that hints at Heinley being a murderer comes up. Your response comes across to me as: he is a ruler (for all of a year or two) so of course he's a murderer.

    Do not start adding things that were not in this story and then tell us the characters were bad due to something there was no evidence of.

    The Emperor is not the law. That was a big point in the story. That Emperors were not the law and still had to follow the law. Soveishu bent the laws and got his comeuppance eventually. Rashta tried to kill people and broke the law in various ways and was imprisoned. Koshar attempted to give infertility medicine to a woman and was banished from his country. He can't return home to greet his parents ever again. They have to find him. He cannot return to his home country.

    In what way does this show that the Emperor is the law?

    Why is the EU being mentioned? I don't think I understand what you are trying to say with this EU one. There are a few key words missing in that line that might be hindering my complete understanding of what you're trying to say. Are you saying no EU president has ever been arrested even if there was tons of evidence against them? Or are you saying an EU president has in fact been arrested due to false evidence?

    Heinley has a mother in the story. What are you doing calling the author Heinley's mother? Arguably the author is also Soveishu's, Rashta's, Navier's, Elgy's, Verdi's, and everyone else's mother just as well in that case.

    Let me say this again. This is a piece of fiction. This is a fictional tale. Not a single one of the characters are real people and things clearly don't completely follow the ways they would in reality. Which makes sense because this is one human's fictional piece based upon a simulation of a society which draws from several different real ones across many periods of time (intentionally or not) put down into written word and churned out for people to enjoy.

    This is a fiction novel. And some people treat it as such.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  5. orichan

    orichan Well-Known Member

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    Er that wasn't my point at all. I was critiquing the the offhanded way Hitler was thrown around in that comment.

    I NEVER said Heinley was squeaky clean -- read my post history if you have to have proof of that. But to assume Heinley is as cruel as rumours have him say is silly. Heinley was building a worse reputation for himself than he really is. Yeah they said he is cruel, but in reality he was what? Preparing for a war with an enemy nation in a fictional medieval setting, a war which he then called off and the harm undone? And yes, he framed a few political enemies who were trying to pull him down, and yes, there may be a nicer way to do it, but hey whatever he was doing wasn't that much worse than the shit Stupidshoe was pulling with his new empress.

    I don't romanticize crimes in any way in real life, nor do I like bad boys in real life, but there's nothing wrong with shipping a morally grey character with the ML in a FICTION. I think it's very limiting to creativity if you apply real life morality and standards on fictional stories all the time. I happen to like enemies to lovers trope (which this isn't even really given they weren't in war to begin with), and I am not going to apologize over liking the shipping in this story even if Heinley had a hand in destroying a few of his enemies' lives.
     
  6. Akesato

    Akesato Well-Known Member

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    He wasn't rumored to be a murderer, stop overdramatising things. He was rumored as cruel and he does cruel things now do bring things and people back in order. They also had rumors of him killing his own brother to claim the throne, but those rumors were false, even the ghost was made with magic and they arrested the one responsible for it. If you think Duke Zmensia is acting properly and must not be punished, you are simply wrong. Heinley's brother, King Warton III couldn't rule properly because of his poor health. He had no influence on the nobles and politics, that's what caused Duke Zmensia's inflated ego that he thought it was okay and proper to humiliate those who are higher than him in rank. Look at Sovieshu: he terrorized his own subjects, he openly hated Koshar, the heir of an influential family second only to the royal family. It was ages before Rashta appeared too. Nobody dared to oppose him or spread false rumors because they will face severe consequences for that, if Koshar was exiled, they would get executed with their entire family.
     
  7. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, is that where the idea that Heinley is a murderer come from?

    Because if so, he wasn't the murderer of his brother. In fact, from what I could tell, part of Heinley going around pretending to be a playboy as well was also to get in the way of people who would try to push him onto the throne in place of his brother. He wanted to rule and protect his country, but did not want to do it by taking things from his brother.

    At least, that was my take on it. That he wanted his brother to rule, he wanted his brother to be well. He was okay with not being the ruler so long as the ruler was his brother. The problem was that his brother was sick, and he knew it was only a matter of time. From what I could tell he wanted his brother to hold on as long as possible, because he'd at least be alive then.

    He loved his brother. Even when his brother's wife tread along his bottom line, he still planned to take care of her to some extent because that was his brother's wish.

    He loved his brother dearly. I don't believe he would murder his brother at all.
     
  8. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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    For a reason, times changed, at what time are you reading this? This novel is currently not written 200 years ago, it seems wrong to me that a person of this time is saying that it seems acceptable to him what the former rulers were doing, if it were so, there would still be slaves. No matter his upbringing he is still a murderer they should stop idolizing him when you learn about life you know what is good and what is bad. If someone marries an ex-queen from one country, a king from another is not a war trophy "in other words, look, we are better, we deserve your queen more". How are they going to leave the plans of years for a war for a woman? Behind those plans was not only one person but quite a few you have not seen Troy Helen of Troy was a war trophy like Navier
     
  9. Akesato

    Akesato Well-Known Member

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    If you think we like Navier because she is a "poor noble woman" and despise Rashta because she is "an illiterate slave"... think again, you seem to like to think and read between the lines. I personally don't like Rashta for her victim-acting and stupidity. "You don't indulge in Rashta and don't send Rashta gifts, you must hate Rashta! You are a bad person!" This is messed up. She acted the way people will pity her even when she had the authority of the empress, before Sovieshu took it away. I personally think she should have never had any authority at all, considering he wanted her to be only temporary empress for the children's future. Have advisors constantly monitor her every step, fucking kick out Duke Elgy already, investigate Viscount Roteschu and send him away too, DO SOMETHING STUPIDSHU. She wasn't educated, that's not the problem, she had Navier's tutors, the problem is she wasn't willing to be educated. When she was forced to study she cried and complained that it was hard and difficult and then she cried and complained that her authority was taken away.

    And I don't really like Navier, she just happens to be a main character in the novel I like. She is an "okay" character, I don't dislike her though. I like Duchess of Tuania, McKenna, Koshar is definitely my favorite, but according to you he is a monster. He killed countless people, he is a soldier after all. Because killing bandits is apparently also bad, even though they kill innocent residents and possibly do things worse than that. But hey, Koshar is a murderer, killing people is bad hurrdurr.
     
  10. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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    A war is natural because it is created for selfish reasons. When have you seen animals waging war like animals? We have never called anyone a monster. so stealing a country's natural resources is a valid reason for a war, it is a valid reason for many people to die. I pray that you do not have to live that you should change your mind wars do not have justifications
     
  11. Akesato

    Akesato Well-Known Member

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    No, I think they just circlejerk around slavery representation and social hierarchy.
     
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  12. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    This story is set in a period of time where they rode horse carriages around as rulers. Regularly. And people rode lots of horses as a means of quick transport. And wagons, rather than cars.

    This is a fictional peace set in a society that culturally and technologically seems to be at least a hundred years older than ours, and quite different considering it's shaped by magic which doesn't exist.

    Where did he murder someone? Where does it actually say he murdered someone? Why do you keep calling him a murderer? You have shown me zero evidence, no quotes from the story, no chapters where I can look it up, no context to help me figure out where you're getting this from?

    Rather, actually, a more accurate representation is. "We picked up the woman you discarded as not good enough and made her into our queen." Remember, the Emperor divorced her. The other emperor had her and decided she wasn't good enough. She was an unwanted woman. No man would remarry her in her own country. She wasn't the Empress when she married Heinley. She was just a regular noblewoman status-wise at that point, one whose marriage and marriageability was just ruined.

    Also, what is this about a war? You realize there isn't going to be a war in this story and there was no war in this story either, right?

    From all that I've read, spoilers and all, this story does not have a war arc between the Western and Eastern empires.
     
  13. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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    By poor noble woman I mean that with all her power and allies it is illogical that she let her husband be taken away, she had the most powerful family all the education in the world and simply stood idly by having a whole experience of life in that government I do not think that Rastha would have been the first threat to her position as a very good queen who has been many people greed for the position that she has and not only one but entire families.

    give me a valid argument then. In order for you to justify that for that reason their education in the novel has to pass over the lives of people. In case you did not read history 100 years ago, many considered people of non-European origin to be inferior, as they considered native american to be exhibition animals, if they had not changed their way of thinking, they would continue to treat them in the same way.
     
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  14. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    First thing that comes to mind is Chimpanzees. They definitely murder each other for territory. Like, it's an immediate reaction. Chimpanzees are super obvious choice for this.

    ----

    So, if you weren't calling someone a monster, then what was this bit below? Because it really looks to me like you are calling someone a monster right there.
    ----

    I mean, it is one of the big reasons it happens. Most of the time the causes of war can generally be boiled down to a few things. Power, wealth, land, and sometimes sex. Wealth and land can definitely be considered resources. And power can also be gained for resources. So yeah. And rather than saying it was valid, I was merely saying that resources are usually a factor in wars as well as that if there were equal distribution of resources, it would no longer be a factor in wars and would not be used as justification.

    It's just that historically wars tend to be due in part due to resources. Some resources can grant wealth, some resources can grant power, so on and so forth. If everyone was always guaranteed to have an equal slice of the pie and all the same resources no matter what country they were in or the size of their country, I think there would be less wars in general.

    Since that's not the case, we get people who want more land, more power, more wealth, etc. and so they start wars. Sometimes it's out of necessity, sometimes it isn't, but the main cause is usually something like that. That's pretty much all I was actually thinking about, really.

    Well, technically I really don't have to live, and I think that would probably be easier on me. Let me tell you, I've genuinely been thinking I'd like to get off the earth for a little while, and permanently doing so isn't something I'm all that against as a general idea. More like the methods to get off this earth and take a break from life in the way I'd like to are less than pleasant and generally painful and undo-able. Too bad we don't hibernate.

    Anyways, I don't support wars in general. I'd prefer it if we didn't have wars. But to expect to have a war and then expect no one to die is not something I expect. I also don't expect a world where we'll live in peace with absolutely no wars in my lifetime.
     
  15. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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    What has to do with horses? Currently people live working on horses, that has not changed, but the animal protection laws were created. The novel should not make a murderer look good, he killed people but you are not ready for this conversation. They did not show us the war in history simply so as not to make ML look bad

    but we chimpanzees don't see them destroying forests by war or making mines to kill other chimpanzees
     
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  16. elyacuty

    elyacuty Well-Known Member

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    I’m saying the war in GENERAL. Am not defending murderers tho. Of course preventing it would be great and it should be the last option/alternative in achieving something. War is different from direct killing (you just simply kill someone to solve the probs or whatever). Not killing innocents, women, children, man without weapons, do not destroy the plants and kill animals are the rules of the war itself. So are you still implying that war does not value lives?????
     
  17. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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  18. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    Lmao, I'm saying, the time period of the story is not the modern day. I'm saying that Heinley is not a murderer simply because he did not kill people. I'm saying that there wasn't a war in this story during Heinley's period as a ruler or even as an adult prince.

    In the novel's history, there were absolutely wars previously. Heinley mentions them in passing. But they weren't while Heinley was an adult or in any position of power where he could influence them.

    The most recent war Heinley could have participated in based upon what characters said would be when Heinley was a child. I don't believe in blaming the child for something that was out of their control. My impression was that the last war was longer ago. Why would Heinley look bad for wars that he never participated in or started?

    We aren't talking about destroying forests or making mines though.
     
  19. Maisenpai

    Maisenpai Member

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    but you reasonably think it's okay a
    war where only the powerful of the winning side benefit, because the poor and soldiers and losers never gain anything in those wars only suffering

    WTF?
     
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  20. Chronos5884

    Chronos5884 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, not what I said. I wasn't really justifying anything from my perspective. Just pointing out that this is how things work in general. Does that make it ideal, no not really. Does that make it more understandable? Perhaps. I never once said if it was okay or not. Simply that this is how things are. It's more an observation than an opinion on anything.

    Yeah, that's been me for a lot of this discussion, but with more amusement.
     
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