Discussion Is it racist?

Just some food for the mind

First. Asia is huge. Stop treating Asia like it's a single country with a single culture. They're not, and they got too many ethnicities and varying history to be counted with one hand.

Second. Several parts of Asia has been colonialized by the west, and yes, the beauty standard of "pale and fair skin" in several parts of Asia was reinforced from the fact that the "upper echelons" of people, at the time of colonization, are europeans and thus is "white". This beauty standard brings to the table many history of discrimination based on skin color.

Third, regarding the white skin beauty standard in China and their CN. Let's put it into this frame. If someone appear in the said CN and has, what you suspect, a different race, or has a naturally darker shade of skin. Maybe it's black, yellow-ish, or reddish. Will they be automatically termed as ugly?

I have several acquintances and friends who are natives to Asia (China, India, Malaya, Indonesia) and owns a (much) darker skin tone than the 'white = beauty' ideals. Most have been heavily discriminated, mocked, being called "ugly" and other derogatory terms because of their skin colors. Some don't even believe that they're not ugly, when in fact, they're some of the most gorgeous people i've ever seen.

Now, let us think carefully. Is a beauty standard, regardless whether it stemmed from cultural things or not, where one skin color reigns supreme while other skin colors automatically being labelled as "ugly", is racist?

 

Probably colourism and not racism in this case. Read a CN novel where black people are compared to monkeys and all that. Now that shit's straight up racism.

As someone who grew up while gyaru was in full boom, the subcultures of kogyaru and ganguro were a unique Japanese take on how they perceived western teenage culture at the time. Kogyaru was considered scandalous since it gave more emphasis to being free, sexy, confident and even embraced such things as 'heavier' makeup, short hemlines, etc. Ganguro was considered grotesque by the mainstream and I suspect it was as a reaction to the unfair social stigma kogyaru encountered as a result of living in a manner counter to the established norms for women at the time. The nail that sticks up gets hammered down and all that.

 

Yes actual racism and rape is under reported.
But the issue I'm concern is how people use this issue to ruin innocent lives. People are nowadays quick to jump on the hate bandwagon without proper evidence. This is shown by all those cancel culture and me too movement. They have right cause yes, but it the end they when too much they cause nothing but harm. Me too movement had companies to be wary with women making them not employed. Company hires people for diversity causing those people use race crd to get away with anything. Actual rape victims will not be heard since their are loud false claims.
Rather than fixing the problem at this rate, segregation will evident. Blind hate is dangerous and I just worried that this will just cause more hate and racism rather than fixing itself.

 

I don't understand why everyone in the world keeps using the word racism for every case, especially when it's wrong. Although I do understand racism does happen, but I feel like in our modern time racism shouldn't even exist.

I stand by that certain people's mindset is the cause for all these sort of problems. The mindset that they are better than others and looking down on others. Even if fundamentally it is part of our humanity to feel the need to separate themselves from another, whether individually or as a group.

Also there is a difference between racism and discrimination. I have a feeling like most people don't even know the difference since discrimination could happen between siblings without using the word racism. (Compassion is way off, I know, just to make a point).

If the person you mentioned would have said discrimination, I would understand why. When the author or character in the novel especially only likes girls with fairer white skin as opposed to girls with a bit darker or basically normal skin. Putting one group above the other without pulling the race card, is basically discrimination.

I just felt the need to put it here. I don't want to fight people. Peace is the best.

 

To be honest, the OT just reminded me how sometimes, culture wars are really a drain.

You have the Western perspective of something (racism and discrimination) and appropriating it to a culture and an aspect (white skin = rich and a beauty standard) that is way off the mark. Then, proceeded to shame or accuse the culture and the people who belong there. When the said accusation is explained, the one doing the accusation just doubles down. How is that conductive and helpful?

That's no way to have a clear and equal communication without resorting to being exposed to another round of accusations and insults. Nuance is forgotten, context doesn't exist. The only thing that matters is one's culture and winning the 'argument'.

And my Western colleagues wonder why I don't care nor comment on anything related to their society. I'm not stupid and frankly, I don't have the energy to tackle that minefield.

 

I'm sure someone's probably said this already but I'm too lazy to scroll through. It's classist, not racist in this case. Because we're talking about the same race of people holding these ideals. Furthermore, back in the past, they didn't look that favorably at white folks to want to look like them.

 

(couldn't find the exact spot but second best still works)
An interesting perspective of the Victorian era and a great reference for fantasy isekai.
This series has 4 episodes.

 

Sadly, MeToo movement is not the reason companies don't hire women.
It is just the perfect scapegoat.
Glass Ceiling and Glass Cliff have existed before MeToo movement.
Blind resume studies have shown that if no sex is shown that women get treated better eg better pay when all qualifications are the same with a male counterpart.
These studies are older than MeToo movement.
Don't believe that hogwash.
Strong ladies like @ludagad will attest to it.

Nothing gives 100% accuracy. Don't fall into the trap.
What is the likelihood of false claims for other crimes that are not related to MeToo movement? It would shock you.

Women have been treated like crap before MeToo and now they just have a perfect scapegoat.

I recommend reading actual studies.

The same way I won't use Kanye West or Kim Kardashian to study the rich.

I will use Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

Cheers!

 

me2 movement was started on china no? at the time it used on weibo or china social media to bypass greatwall of censorship to complain and share chinese women difficulty on china, mainly discrimination~ considering one child policy(been terminated) after effect it reasonable~ such thing become big enuf so the creator hmm run away to usa or something~
tbh this cat dunno how such thing become bad when pop up on western side~ been long time since read that topic~ well it similar with feminist thing, the loudest on media actually ultra feminist side and media like it cuz bring money~

you just need act like this cat~
step aside then


it's fun watching fire on other shore

 

Yeah, ultras always make the news.
Doesn't mean we should ban things eg football (soccer) because ultras exist.

That would be dumb but when it involves women in a world ruled by men.
It becomes an option

For those who think MeToo movement is unnecessary. They need to read this

@JinVodka

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrubhoomi

 

My Indonesian, Malaysian, and Indian friends mostly finds brown girls to be cute and sweet. They don't really looks about the skin tones but rather their bodyshape and face. I don't believe your reference where they were heavily discriminated because their skin color because girls over there can be brown or white depending how much sun exposure they get daily. They're one of the same kind.
Unless you're talking about negroid girl which is indeed could've been discriminated against because they're much different than south asiatic girls over there and are much rarer to see.

Edit.
Got an input from south asian girl themselves here. They like to have lighter skin tone because it create better contrast to their natural body hair color and eye color which is black. It also help to highlight their other cosmetic colors that are more often to be light colored. She says if she want to be brown she'll want to dye her hair to blonde.

 

Lighter skin tone, across all cultures signifies that you belong in a higher class. In every race, you will generally see that those of the higher class will have a lighter skin tone. So, it's not about race, it's about class.

And for the reason why it is considered more beautiful? From my observation and understanding, a lighter skin tones signifies that you are more clean and tidy. Not only that, having a lighter skin tone will make the features of your face stand out more as compared to a darker one.

 

First of all, in my opinion, if you can recognize that something is racist, you have to be able to think like a racist.

And I think that's fine, since it doesn't mean you act racist.

Point is, imho, as long as this discussion is needed or is a problem, there is no "moral high ground"; the concepts exist, so it exists.

That aside, inequality is everywhere and exists naturally, it won't disappear.

It's just about not letting it prevent, to a reasonable degree, a happy life for everyone... which ofc cannot be achieved by everyone due to natural inequality (depression, family wealth, etc.).

As a white person who doesn't work outside and get tanned much, I think the beauty of my skin color is overrated... I look like a flour worm, dammit.

People here go to sun to get more tan on purpose.

 

Honey, let's try this...
Indonesia, Malaya, India.
And no, some people (in SEA) couldn't magically have white skin even if they stay indoor. For instance, Indonesia alone officialy has at least Malayan Mongoloid and Melanesian in the mix.

How lucky for us that your friend's mind is very broad and understanding.

And again, if you look at the history of Indonesia, Malaysia, and Indonesia, there is a deep history of discrimination based on race and skin color that has contributed to the founding of the modern "white = beauty" standard. This beauty standard then, again, contributes to a systemic discrimination againts skin color. A vicious cycle. I reccommend reading some research about it. "Seeing Beauty, Sensing Race in Transnational Indonesia is a nice start", and it's in english!

 

Racist is simply a hate toward different races, a prejudice, any kind of insult toward people with different skin or cultures, as long as it's not within this context, then it's not a racist.

 

https://jakartaglobe.id/vision/i-am-not-a-monkey-papuans-protest-against-racial-discrimination
Like i said negroid is rare and minority in South Asian nations which is why they're often discriminated. They weren't just different in skin color they differ in facial shape than most south asian.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...-fairest-of-them-all-how-about-who-cares.html
Now the lady in the picture can probably be whiter than she currently is but it's true some of them do have natural brown skin tone. I doubt she faced any discrimination on the general basis with her face even in her country but if we're talking about model and fashion industry which is by the way predominantly exist just to market western brands of beauty products your assertion might be true.
All in all if you want to see their true natural skin tone then you should try see them when they're a baby. They are mostly white as far as i know.
South Asian might have harder time to lose their tans this is true.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/world/asia/india-skin-color-unilever.html
Now with indian i would agree the lighter skin tone simply doesn't exist anywhere in their original history or culture and are just inherited during their colonial era.

All in all i start to think maybe this obsession of white skins does not just stem from cultural, class, or races but maybe it also stem from light spectrum our eyes mainly perceives. After all it is much easier to spot details in light than dark conditions.

 

no this is wrong. I think the person assume it is racist because of how america is. America does the white is good and black is bad thing.

 

Because of the past. Black actors and actress weren't able to get jobs and whites dress in blackface were. And the black community doesn't do that for white people. I saw tommy as my favorite power ranger but i never thought i needed to put up white make up to look like him.

Who says having a white voice actor being racist. That is just family guy people being stupid. Like they were with the gay joke thing. No one cares about a dying show not having a black voice actor.