Discussion Cultivation novels

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by I your Father, Aug 2, 2020.

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  1. I your Father

    I your Father Well-Known Member

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    I've read many kind of novels since i found about them but recently i've come to understand the greatest problem about them. They are all turned to the past. All the greatest techniques have been created in the past and nothing new is ever better. Worse still, even cultivation remained the same for millions of years and nobody tried to improve them or tried to find alternatives. There is no innovation and no evolution.
    Of course not all novels are like that but most of them are. And because of that, i t feels like the cultivator are generally stupid people who can only go onward by looking backward : Arc where they try to learn lost techniques, lost knowledge and only follow the path their ancestors tread upon without even deviating.

    Most chinese novels follows that trope and because of that there are little differences between them. I think this is a problem that they must resolve otherwise, chinese webnovels will never improve and get better.
     
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  2. otaku31

    otaku31 Well-Known Member

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    I think the biggest problem with cultivation novels is the repetitiveness of plot, not of techniques/knowledge. Almost every CN, sooner or later, turns into a carbon copy of the one that came before, and so on. There is a need for breaking the "formula"a subversion of tropesand better execution.

    Maintaining consistency of logic (or whatever passes for logic in xianxia) throughout shouldn't be forgotten either. Tho I do admit I prefer CNs where the protags explore their own, untrodden paths.
     
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  3. Zamzukan

    Zamzukan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.
    Every cultivator reacts the same when finding a tomb.
    "Oh, this was a powerful cuntivator in the past, so studiying this dead man's technique will help me become immortal"

    What do dead people know about immortality, the main point of which is NOT DYING?
     
  4. Hacalyhd

    Hacalyhd Well-Known Member

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    I agree, they tend to always regress into weaker and weaker versions.

    I think it fits their theme though. Read me out:

    People used to be powerful beyond belief, every sect was glorious and yada, yada, yada...It was the Golden Era of cultivation. And that was the problem.
    Since there were so many powerful beings, they plundered the planet bare until barely any resources were left. Following generations had to deal with less resources, which not only limited the progress they could make, but also caused more fighting, leading to more talented people dying before they could contribute to the world, causing many powerful legacies to be lost or destroyed, limiting the amount of knowledge available to following generations.
    This vicious cycle in tandem with nepotism, natural disasters and the mentioned increasing scarcity of resources let to the cultivation worlds constant regression until we arrive at the start of our story.

    The world has been sucked dry for centuries, leading to all the incredible achievements and inventions of the past to become either lost or unusable. Yet do the MCs think about the problems caused? No, they are busy stealing as much resources for themselves as possible, continuing the cycle.

    AFAIK Desolate Era was the only novel where they eventually put a limit to how many people could cultivate, so that their world could recover, and that was only when the MC left that world to explore the universe.

    Whether the copy-cat authors know it or not, all cultivation novels are an attempt to make the chinese people realize the importance of environmental protection, without having the CCP block it. :hmm:
     
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  5. All The Wrong Novels

    All The Wrong Novels Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is the genre's biggest problems, and I've read examples where the main character developed their own techniques/equipment rather than just finding/learning old stuff.

    But I think it is often more symptomatic of a broader problem which is that the stories could spend more time thinking how the world gets to be the way it is and develop the characters relationship to the past and how it shapes their personality.
     
  6. 222222

    222222 12121212121212121212121212121212121212121212121212

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    Just read one then, then you will’ve read them all.
     
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  7. NoNamejustGhost

    NoNamejustGhost You don't know me

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    Technique is fine to some bearable but clichè stuff is not.
    Like being born trash
    Being born without Cultivation or with one level or two
    Being born with trash parents (no Cultivation or crippled)
    Everyone against him
    Can't cultivated
    Random harem
    Going into academy/sect arc

    This list goes on and on.
    But most unbearable is .
    When they forget they come from a world that use brain instead of killing to become most famous person in world.
    If want my recommendation for novel
    Read
    Lord of the mysteries
     
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  8. HafidzM

    HafidzM Well-Known Member

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    Try to read Tales of Herding Gods, mc and the people around him try to improve the existing techniques, cultivation techniques, and even reduce the cultivation stages.
     
  9. zajrus

    zajrus Well-Known Member

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    You missed the bunch with some revolutionary storytelling - meaning doing the same shit with a big spoon of gluey dark stuff without any meaning or goal - and a whole new world from the author - meaning the same shit through some really retarded political bs glasses - :D
     
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  10. MaidChan

    MaidChan 『Battlemaid』 『TRAP』 『Homeless Maid』

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    Probably related to Chinese pride THINGY?? One thing I noticed is how Chinese people frequently talks about THE GLORIOUS ANCIENT CHINA
     
  11. NO-USERNAME

    NO-USERNAME Well-Known Member

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    Mcs that creates their techniques and improve the existing techniques are the minority sadly
     
  12. M4rcosR3is

    M4rcosR3is Well-Known Member

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    you forget one thing man.
    the biggest techniques are in the past: because in the past someone created them, trained on them, became super OP , (like our mc is gonna be) and resulted in a full blow out war that pretty much more or less "re started" their entire world, how could you explain all those super OP immortals simple "dying" of vanishing out of nowhere?

    Like they said: a mountain can not have two tigers.

    and this is why all the past tech are op's, because when cultivators started creating-transforming the existing tech's in super OP tech's, they would become super OP themselves, but the world can not handle two tigers, so they would fight between themselves resulting in a massive amount of casualties and pretty much extinguish most of the "development" in cultivator world already made, only the normalfag's would survive and minor amount of them, that would in turn search for the new tech's and become the "new cultivators".
    and thus the world they live in, suffers a minor "restarted" every time.
    the thing is: the mc you are reading becoming OP and dominating the world is just the "enter" level , is like level 1 in a video game, you just don't see the other levels until they destroy each other.
    So if we look cultivators novel that you are talking about as whole and use a history knowledge to qualify it, it means that they simple did not "reached" the "stage" of developing their own things yet, they are still on the stage of resurface of civilization; searching for heritage and knowledge lost on the previous civilization!
    they are pretty much in a tribal society called "sects", that are still fighting with other "tribes"(sects) for resources and land and are still not in the process of self development of sciences and technologies, even if they still have some form of them, is like a middle ages tribe, they had iron works but they really had developed themselves in sciences and technology? in a scientific way?they pushed themselves to understand why things are the way they are? no, even if they had iron weapons, iron arrows, they did not gave shit about it, they just had, you can even say they are not "civilized" enough by today's standards. .
    this would also explain a lot of things: like for example: why they all choice to fight-kill and pretty much genocide without batting a eye, because they are still a "primitive" society per si.
    they are in earlier stages of development, recovering from their previous doomsday.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  13. FIEND

    FIEND i eat crayons

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    the only greatest novels are cultivation novels that came up with their unique cultivation and techniques
    Like reverend insanity
    but then I shall seal the heavens came close, in the sense that meg hao used hexes as his main power, while the cultivation stages were the same themselves.
    I agree, shit gets repetitive, but thats the same with any genre it takes a truly genius creative author who uses more than 2 brain cells to not plagerize and come up with unique content, or take existing troupes to another level like Game of Thrones does to the medieval troupe
    or like LOTM where author creates a whole knew idea of potions for apotheosis and the mixes several known ideas to create a brand knew stew - like the use of SCP, outer gods, elderrich themes, steam punk and gothic era settings etc.
    Its a shame that novel ideas are rare, after all, if the troupe is fresh, new authors will just change the names and rewrite the plot to try to milk audiances as much as they can.. Worse fucking yet are authors like the one who wrote the manga Pupillary Master, they dont even bother hiding the fact that they are ripping off Ghostly Doctor, they steal verbatim, techniques, names and even entire scenes. Its sad, but if it works, and readers are eating that shit up then theyll do it.
     
  14. bakato

    bakato Well-Known Member

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    Read Reverend Insanity. Newer is better because it's innovation.
     
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  15. SifaV6

    SifaV6 Well-Known Member

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    Cultivation novels are all based around Chinese mythology.

    The amount of content in Chinese mythology eclipses that of Greek/Norse/Egyptian. There's more than 10,000 recorded Gods and Immortals (each with their own stories or multiple stories that spans for tens of thousands of years) (reading through these actually feels like reading history). Almost all cultivation novels make reference to Chinese mythology, from characters like Pangu/Fuxi/Three Purities to legendary divine arts like Eight-Nine Arts, and mythical treasures like Taiji Diagram/Bell of the East Emperor etc.

    The biggest reason why these novels all follow the same route of looking back at the past is that in Chinese mythology, when the world was first formed, the heaven and earth was very unstable, the laws of the universe (the various Daos) were still visible and can be studied in detail. The first of the living beings that were birthed were all born either naturally strong or with comprehensions of the Dao. Humans were only created much later on during the mythology. By then, there were no longer any primordial treasures left, the laws became fully stable, and the spiritual enegery of the world was also disappearing.

    The timeline of the mythology spans for more than a million years going from Pangu spliting heaven and earth, to the war of dragons and phoenixes which broke the realm, mother nuwa fixing heaven, birth of human race, the myriad races forming heavenly court (also labeled as demonic court by humans), war of demonic court against the wu race, the human emperor finally leading the human race to victory and pushed out the demon races, Dao ancestor and the three purities establishing the cestial court, the formation of Shang dynasty, birth of budha, monkey king and journey to the west, fall of the celestial court etc.

    After the monkey king's era, most of the strong immortals and gods have all perished from either tribulations or in-fighting. What's left are just legends and myths, hence most cultivation novels all revolve around finding ancient treasures or cultivation arts.
     
  16. Neigh

    Neigh "Lich-King" "Harem-Fan" "Tragedy-Hater"

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    What bothers me the most with Cultivation Novel is that all Cultivation Realms just have different names and are get a bit Stronger if they make a breakthrough. Many such Novel are tasteless, without any sense. What is the difference between Ch.1 MC at First Realm and Ch. 1000 Mc at the 15 Realm? Just more Power. The End! Maybe at the 1 Realm you Cultivate the Body to drain the impurities. Second Realm you train the Soul to understand thing easier, and with the Third Realm can you use Divine Sense. Something like this is Good, but the Next 20 Realms? Nothing New only More Power and wides Divine Sense.
    And then How a Third Realm Cultivator with always lose VS a Fourth Realm Cultivator.
    There are a Few Cultivation Novels where they absorb Purer Energy or Purify Energy, and can so Fight as a Peak Third Realm VS a Fourth Realm. Or Cultivate with More Meredians than Average Cultivator. if 108 Are the Max, then 54 are make it Possible to Cultivate but with less can too Cultivate, but speed is Slower and one would die a Natural death before the Next Breakthrough to gain More lifespan, without a fortunate encounter. Genius can uses more than 54 Meridians or have a Affinity, like Fire or Water, with that they cultivate a Element Cultivation Technique Faster and makes them Stronger, but have a weakness with the opposite Element.
    Or what is a Load of Crap is, when Body Cultivation is another Cultivation Path, that a Third Realm Body and Third Realm Energy Cultivator loses VS a Fourth Realm ONLY Energy Cultivator. Like 1+1 isnt 2, but 1+1=1.
     
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  17. I your Father

    I your Father Well-Known Member

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    This is the other problem i found about chinese novels: The endless escalation.
    At first there are nine levels of cultivation known and out of knowhere there are actually 3 additionals levels and then later tere are 3 more and so on. And at the same time there are so many people at such levels that you are left wondering what were they doing all this time??? Sleeping???
     
  18. SamStrike

    SamStrike Well-Known Member

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    Usually it's because past techniques were used for a very long time. Those are the techniques that were refined to the limit, behind those techniques there is a sea of people that used them and changed them, constantly improving it until it reached the limits.

    Of course you can create new techniques, but would those ever be better than the ones that people refined for millions of years? Those created by people that spent all their life creating and refining them? If you are just barely 20-30 you can never hope to create a technique and make it comparable to those.

    It's always easier to ride a boat that already work perfectly fine and was also refined by many engineers than trying to created a new boat without any knowledge.
     
  19. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    I don't really have any interest in xianxia novels but I think that it's wrong to equate all Chinese novels with them. There are a ton of different kinds of books out there, and most of them have nothing to do with any of the OP's issues. Also I'm not fond of overgeneralization to begin with as it tends to poison whatever conversation there is to be had.

    In general, I think that if you have issues with cultivation novels then don't read them. There's tons of better books out there, and there's no cause for complaint unless you've already read those.

    Hell no. Cultivation novels are all extensions of ideas that first showed up in wuxia novels; primarily modern wuxia. All of those hidden techniques, special devices and herbs to accelerate the character's growth in power can be found in books like "Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber" and "Demi-gods and Semi Devils" while the way protagonists behave tends to be strongly informed by books like "the Deer and the Cauldron". Old school mythology has crap all to do with any of this.
     
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