Discussion Is a site legally allowed to charge people money for reading translations?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Lost Happiness, Aug 3, 2020.

  1. Lost Happiness

    Lost Happiness /╲/\╭ ✖ Д ✖ ╮/\╱\

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    Like Fantasy World Online, they paywall their translations behind subscriptions. I also doubt they have copyright. So are they allowed to do this legally or are they running an illegal site through this? I'm not sure if its the same as others where its optional to read further ahead since compared to other translators, they have a schedule and it isn't shown that it is there behind a paywall. Wanted to ask since I saw a comment there saying such.
     
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  2. lichdeath

    lichdeath undead meatbun ^^

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    yes on the question if theyre allowed by the author as far as i know

    dunno about fantasy world online
     
  3. TamaSaga

    TamaSaga Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with charging money for a service per se. If you don't like it, start your own. That's how the free market works.

    But a service where you don't have the permission of the author is a gray area that's generally handled by DMCA.
     
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  4. lygarx

    lygarx Lazy Translator

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    probably not. so if they get ripped and placed on some aggregator site or another group starts translating it too, it is the same level of fairness to me if they dont have legal permission to do so from the author.
     
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  5. KageTokage

    KageTokage Well-Known Member

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    Will the chapters be eventually released? Like is it a fast-pass to early chapters?
    If so, I believe they can do that on the claim that it is the fruit of their labor. However, if they are translating without the author's knowledge, charging for chapters leans towards being illegal. Honestly, most of this is in a legal gray area.

    The better way is to state any donations will speed up translation. As that way it can be claimed as being paid to provide a service, not for the chapters themselves (semantics).
     
  6. aegis062

    aegis062 Chaotic Demon Emperor

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    yes as long as you don't get DMCA notice no if you do. it's usually ignored because the company or the author have no interest in porting their work to other countries. a lot of snes games never made it to north america were later translated or had english patches were free or sold if someone went the extra mile to port it into a cartridge and sell it. in the 90s this was very popular and many american navy who were in asia mainly china would stop by the ports and they would have cartridges cd and tapes for sale it's always been a grey market area till someone start to see the amount of money potential.
     
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  7. Lost Happiness

    Lost Happiness /╲/\╭ ✖ Д ✖ ╮/\╱\

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    From what I see maybe eventually released but hard to tell what with not keeping up with it since it takes months before it gets released and it is only a part of the chapter. I've sort of abandoned their site and occasionally check up to see where they translated at and what got released.
     
  8. Sabruness

    Sabruness Cultured Yuri Connoisseur

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    patreons and donations for advanced chapters, that sort of thing, is a grey area.

    completely paywalling all their translations without any free chapters released, without holding the license to translate or even author permission, would be really illegal.
     
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  9. Lost Happiness

    Lost Happiness /╲/\╭ ✖ Д ✖ ╮/\╱\

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    I see, thanks.
     
  10. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    Translations themselves are in a bit of a grey area. Most of the time you try to go under the umbrella of "fair use" or something to that effect.

    But doing so requires you not be doing what you're doing for profit. In other words it's fair use for me to use clips of an anime in a review. But I can't just sell the episode to people to make money. They have the right to sell it and I don't.

    So you cannot legally sell translated chapters. Generally translators will avoid the issue with Patreon donations, with the idea being "you're giving me money out of generocity and the money will allow me to make more free translations. In other words they aren't selling the chapters, they are simply asking for donations indirectly related to chapter translation.

    Now as for paywalling individual chapters? That is where things REALLY start to push it. Because even if you call it a "site subscription" you're still clearly paying for the viewing of individual chapters that the sight owners do not have the resale rights to. There might be some legal loop holes they could still use in this situation but it's definitely at the point a well payed laywer could shut them down if they wanted. As there is enough evidence of chapter to chapter profits to make a case in court.

    But most of these over seas companies can't be bothered to do so which is why sites like that are able to continue to act.
     
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  11. Lost Happiness

    Lost Happiness /╲/\╭ ✖ Д ✖ ╮/\╱\

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    I wouldn't say completely, but they are at least 1 arc ahead(maybe more? not sure never checked) and barely released any of the previous arc(arc 3 is where they picked up at), like maybe 3 chapters of arc 3 and it took months before it updated to where it is now.

    Can I say it is also for individual novels only? $5 per novel per month.
     
  12. FudgeNouget

    FudgeNouget Well-Known Member

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    No, just to make things clear, patreons/"donations" are both illegal. There is no grey area involved (this notion really only came from people trying to justify reading pirated content).
    What IS allowed is for you to translate a novel. BUT, it becomes illegal the moment you distribute it (i.e. put it on a website for others to see, regardless of whether it is for a profit or not).

    It is only legal when you have the official license to translate it from the copyright holder (usually a publisher that is contracted to an author)
     
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  13. Sabruness

    Sabruness Cultured Yuri Connoisseur

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    Would still be illegal because it sounds like the main focus is paying specifically for chapters. Also, that sort of lazy half-assery is scummy and really makes it sound like they're in it only for the money.
     
  14. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    Yes because you're still charging for what is effectively the purchase of an individual's work.

    Again what makes it a grey area is when the money is simply going to the person directly for reasons not TECHNICALLY related to the works themselves. Like giving the person donations so they can make more time to translate. You're not paying for any specific work. You're just giving a person money so they have more free time and what they do with that time is technically their buisness.

    Even if they say "donate this much for a new chapter of this series" they are simply promising a specific favor in exchange for donation. Meaning you are donating while at the same time expressing what you want to see get more chapters. It's an unoffficial promise not a legal transaction.

    Site subscriptions might also fall into a grey area but it depends on how they are handled. Does the subscription do anything besides allow you to see chapters? If so then you could argue the subscription is just to use the site and not paying for translated works hosted on the site. But this is more of a grey area than the donations as the donations are optional and unofficial while the subscription is a formal transaction.

    But for the record even if you are doing Patreon a publisher can still shut you down if they decide to claim you're interfering with their profits. Because while you can claim some things under "Fair Use" companies have shown for YEARS that the so called "fair use" laws are more just a suggestion that they are free to ignore. So the moment you put your hands on their work they CAN shut you down. Grey area or no.
     
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  15. Milanin

    Milanin [Reader] [???] [Freeloader]

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    If they do not own the publishing rights, it isn't legal.

    Like if we look at Qidian, they own the publishing rights for the novels so they can paywall people past a certain point.

    If we look at Alphapolis with their novels and manga, they can legally paywall their chapters with AC to rent it.

    If however any site is using chapters of a story that they do not own the rights of and demand payment to view, without a free version, they are doing piracy.

    The "gray" area is when the chapters are advanced chapters with a constant upload /release pace for non-paying users.
     
  16. Seigin

    Seigin [Lolicon][GenderBender Banzai!]

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    Due to copyrights, it is illegal if the copyright owner does not give authority to distribute the translated works. Meaning even if it's in another language the owner still has the right for distribution. Unless if the owner has filed the copyright for creative commons.

    As such novel, thesis, and documents filed under copyrights cannot be used by others without permission or authority.
     
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  17. Shio

    Shio Moderator Staff Member

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    All non official translation you see is not legal. Doesn't matter if it's paywalled or not
     
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  18. Nightow1

    Nightow1 Well-Known Member

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    He/She? has a point there. I think a lot of people here seem to be confusing illegal with distasteful. Any site that offers services rendered, like translations, has a right to ask for payment. We as the readers also in reverse, have the right to say "Nope, too rich for my blood" and walk away. Just because you really want something does not mean you have to get it for free. Like all things in this world, it is a competition between our desires and our financial capacity to support it.

    Which is why when you see someone doing a free translation, learn to appreciate him/her more. S/he had no necessity to make it free, but did.
     
  19. KurouDaijuji

    KurouDaijuji Well-Known Member

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    The translators and their agents "own" their version of the translation, meaning it can't legally be used or accessed without their permission, for which they have a right to charge, this does include not allowing the original creator to use that specific translation.
    However a translation made without authorization form the original creator or their agents is not generally legal, and in most jurisdictions not only can they demand the translation be removed from public availability, the would also have a claim on all revenue (not just profits) earned in relation to the translation.
     
  20. Little Potato

    Little Potato Sexiest Potato Alive [SpaceBar's Master]

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    All translations free/paywalled, hosted with ads/free wordpress, are ALL illegal without the license of publisher. Simple as that.
     
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