RANT: When an Idol Falls

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Wujigege, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. ExcitableFoci

    ExcitableFoci Well-Known Member

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  2. runsing

    runsing status : bleeding, health -10/s Novel Updates Staff

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    mostly bots. but people do get banned quite often, just that they're usually time-limited, like 1-day, or 3-days, or just banned from replying to a thread. so you'll still see them around. there's also ppl going to tony's profile asking for a ban. reasons include "my exam is coming, please ban me so that i can concentrate"
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
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  3. etvolare

    etvolare Celestial Fluff

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    I love some good drama that doesn't involve me. *raises bubble tea cup in cheers*

    I want to comment on the idea that WW caused some cascading pollution of the translation scene because Ren dared seek legitimacy. This is a really old misconception that I first heard from GGP back in 2016 and frankly, I'm tired of it.

    Scrutiny and attention from the Chinese publishers was inevitable by simple virtue of how big the sites were getting. Multiple millions of pageviews a day weren't something that went unnoticed. Before Ren even reached out to Qidian, WW had been mentioned in the media and newspaper articles, and the general scene itself was talked about how Chinese culture was making inroads against Hollywood for once. He didn't introduce the scene to them or light the bulb that there's money to made, much as things have been lovingly spun that way.

    So given that, better to come to the table and be able to set some terms than have them forced on you. Better to help shape the industry than be at its whims. Or everyone could've stuck their fingers in their ears and yelled loudly that we're just fans and this has nothing to do with us, and we'd all be at the mercy of Webnovel-esque contracts and treatment starting 2017.

    The other big component to legitimacy is that it was vital to get the scene where it is today.

    Where do the fastest, most consistent, highest quality updates come from? The combination of all three is most likely from full-time translators. I don't speak for all my brethren, but I'm not keen on betting my livelihood on something that's illegal. Sadly, we gots to adult, earn money, and not be embroiled in lawsuits for copyright infringement. So while my love for the novel might keep me in the scene, it'll definitely be something like 3x a week at the most and I'm not picking something that's made me do a ton of research like NECRO.

    All of us would hate that all around. We wouldn't have near the same amount of content and diversity of choice if we were still treading the legal area of pre-2016. There's quite a few complaints one could levy at Ren (but credit goes where credit's due, he's made continuous improvement on stuff we complain most loudly about), but this notion of him being the Fire Nation that wrecked the golden era of novel translations is nonsensical.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  4. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL New Member Staff Member

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    Mostly bots.

    Been awhile since I got my hands dirty for someone other than those advertisement accounts.
     
  5. NodiX

    NodiX Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to kick someone while they're down. But I agree on some people's opinion here. Wuji, I think it's in your best interest to learn on how to treat someone to work with you better, since you're going to walk the road of entrepreneurship with your site as a base.
     
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  6. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    Thats not the point here.
    My translators are private, so they have no idea what my work relationships are.
    They are just making assumptions.

    My model is also not the same with ISO, WW etc.
    They are demanding I follow their model.
    I refused.
    Since I did not follow their model. I am greedy and paying people slave wages
    I have translators locked under a basement etc
    All said without proof. So yes, it is all hogwash.

    You cannot be polite to people who are from the same group who send you threats.

    And let us get the facts straight, this all began because I made two points on the Centinni thread

    1. You should be forgiving
    2. Translators do not earn as much as everyone thinks especially small sites
    It turned into ISO and WW pay this rate, so everyone else not paying the same is some evil blah blah nonsense.
    It is one thing to share a percentage of your ad revenue with translators. It is another thing to pay based on traffic. I am sure as you as anyone with the basics know that not all traffic translates into revenue eg adblocked traffic
    If WW and ISO choose to pay for adblocked traffic fine. Expecting other websites to pay is ridiculous
    I also added this link to the thread I believe
    https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/3481946?hl=en
    Then it became I am jealous, freaking out blah blah
    The thread became a lynch mob. Something all too common here.

    My translators are private and even how I run my website is private. So they can only make assumptions
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  7. rwxwuxiaworld

    rwxwuxiaworld Well-Known Member

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    How many times can a man lie in a single post?

    I will pay anyone $1000 if they can find a single post where I demanded Wuji follow any model.

    If you were paying people decent wages, you wouldn't be terrified of them getting poached.

    Bullshit, this all began because you call Kiki a 'ridiculous' liar on this post. You then said 'with authority' that she is wrong about her own numbers on this post, and then you quoted her post and claimed she was committing 'character assassination' when she simply gave her screenshots in this post, and only then did I call you out on your bullshit in my post, which has nothing to do with you keeping your translators private. You then ran here and started this thread and claimed I was harassing you for keeping your translators private, then made this post 'apologizing' for calling Kiki a liar, but in a kinda jackass way by implying she's some rich bougie like 'Jeff Bezos' (LOL) and that's why she can afford to pay translators better, even though her site is smaller than yours. That's not a sincere apology.

    You behaved like a jackass, everyone saw it, and that's why everyone was against you after you got called out on it. At any point in the original thread, all you had to do was offer a genuine apology to Kiki, and I wouldn't have said a thing, but you instead continued with your typical behavior. I suggest you learn from this, grow a bit, become a better person, and move on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
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  8. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    I do not respond to you posts because you have been on my ignore list for over a year and for a good reason.
    Whenever I click on Show ignored posts, you have responded to my posts.
    I do not reply to them usually because I am not interested in talking to you.
    Can't you take a hint?

    Disclaimer: There seems to be a misconception. I am talking about Japanese novels when I refer to novels. I threw in the towel concerning Chinese novels when Webnovel.com drama started.

    WW and ISO model might work for you if you focus on Chinese novels. I wouldn't know never really did Chinese novels.
    BL novels are a different beast for those who want to mention those.

    I just noticed this:
    It was pointed out that I apologized(without being prompted) to the person I was talking. Who was obviously not Ren of WW..
    The argument now is that it's not genuine.
    Like seriously?

    Do I need to shave my head or something?

    You guys are just crazy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2020
  9. rwxwuxiaworld

    rwxwuxiaworld Well-Known Member

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    Most of the forum isn't interested in hearing from you, but here we are still with 15k posts. Just man the hell up and drop the victim complex - you yammer and blabber about your 'ignore list' and set up entire threads ranting about people you have 'ignored', then cry and whine incessantly when those people you rant about holla back at you. Grow up and grow a pair.

    To make it clear - I don't really give a shit if you respond to my posts or not. I'll just happily call you out so that no one else is infected by your occasional toxic nonsense and thinks that it is 'normal' and reflective of 'how business works', because it isn't. And of course, when you insult my friends.

    Your apology would not seem genuine to any decent, sane, well-adjusted human being, and that's why Kiki's response to your apology was: "Umm, sure, whatever you say." You don't tell someone their website model 'seems ridiculous' and that they are bougie like 'Jeff Bezos' in a freaking apology, and the fact that you don't understand this shows how socially maladjusted your thought processes. And that is why so many people look down on you.

    And yes - when you call a friend of mine a liar across multiple posts, then give a half-hearted apology, then start lying about me, I'm going to call your ass on it. I'll up the bounty; I'll pay you $5000 if you can show ANY post I made where I said anything about demanding you to 'follow our model' or 'reveal your translators'. You are a businessman - easy money, right? Five thousand dollars for one post. Only reason not to do it is because you can't - because you are lying through your clenched buttocks :ROFLMAO:.

    Take the L, learn from this, grow a bit, become a better person, and move on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  10. Kiki0246

    Kiki0246 Top Notch Fujoshi, Owner of ISO TLs

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    omg lol, maybe I should ask to get banned to focus on my work.

    Also RWX is amazing, I'm so bad at talking so thanks a bunch.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  11. NodiX

    NodiX Well-Known Member

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    This might be irrelevant, and I'm not even your translator. But I do feel I need to say this.

    I did reach you out asking for a collaboration to make a jamstack Progressive Web Apps tailored for novel sites one year ago, something that I planned to make it open source around this year, I don't know whether you remember it or not. Back then I need an early tester as well as a collaborator to prove my plan that everyone can setup a great website with the cheapest cost possible, I picked you as one of the first potential collaborators out of all people, trying to contact you through your site's disqus comment, but only by mentioning that I won't ask you money that you invite me to further discussion over email.

    I have a high anticipation to work on an established website back then, I did a few of digging to prepare a technical pitch on the basis to make my vision possible. I felt like I'm taking my first step toward making a valuable change and further contribution to the community and webnovel scene. What I didn't expect was that the first email reply I got from you is a straight requirement on how you want the project gonna be. I'm not asking for a warm welcome, but I didn't expect to get treated as an freelancer seeking jobs either. I know that you as a webmaster has concern on your day/day operation basis, so I thought we could still have a discussion after that, as I was hoping to see whether we can maintain a win-win collaboration relationship despite I'm in a position of not getting paid as a web developer. But a few more emails later and I was sure it's not gonna happen, so I made an excuse to pull out from discussion before we could working together.

    Wuji my man, please don't see this post as a personal attack or see me feeling bitter. But while people might making an assumption on you, I'm that one person that you might not even remember that almost got in helping you for free, but that didn't happen. So I took my time to write this for you in a good faith. I wish you find your success, but to do that, you need to make people comfortable working with you even without getting money involved. Not everyone here in for the money. You're here in a fans translation community so you're bound to meet people who's willing to work with you even for free, some were passionate people who were willing to trade lots of their free time with an opportunity to learn--you're just gotta to make them stay with you, which is, frankly, is quite hard. I know this because I learnt it the hard way after growing apart from one acquaintance who was helping me for months, someone that I have once a have good time chatting with, but it just didn't work out because I couldn't treat her better.

    Learn to treat people better Wuji. I hope I'm not coming as preaching, but you're gonna need it, especially when you're trying to walk the road of entrepreneurship, which is quite ambitious compared to average people here.

    Good luck.
     
  12. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    As I said, it is all assumption. This is rant thread for a reason:
    Those attack me will respond here. My tone would not be the same when talking with others.
    I work well with a lot of people even some who are volunteers from this community.
    So it is simply a smear campaign. I do not need to mention names.
    A greedy person doesn't help strangers on the internet start websites.
    I also contacted you recently about something similar that you posted last month. I made a post on your profile and you said that it is still in beta.

    You can shoot me an email if you are interested.
     
  13. NodiX

    NodiX Well-Known Member

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    I didn't contact you through email again because right now I can't work with unlicensed sites, as I'm currently applying for a grant to fund my project and still waiting on their decision whether I get it or not. So I can't help you now unless you've got legal permission for works in your website or you host original works with the author's permissions.

    Yes, the technology behind it still beta, even in their website they put beta logo on their brand. So when you were asking whether it's feasible to it is to be implemented, my answer is, right now, not much money will trickle in, as people here still not familiar unless they got the wind of company called Coil somewhere, but you can still experimenting with it if you're interested.

    Here's an article to get started:
    https://css-tricks.com/site-monetization-with-coil-and-removing-ads-for-supporters/

    They also have WP plugin:
    https://wordpress.org/plugins/coil-web-monetization/
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  14. Butters

    Butters Well-Known Member

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    Help people out of the goodness of my heart for a 30% cut of revenue...
     
  15. NovelReaderAnonymous

    NovelReaderAnonymous Well-Known Member

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    Lol people don't response to you, Wujigege, to get your reply. We known you for years, you know the bullshit reply you send (and how you avoid all the key points in any conversion). The replies are for everyone else to see how bullshit you are so we'll continue to call out your bullshit as long as you continue to make them.
     
  16. Nightow1

    Nightow1 Well-Known Member

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    Asianhobyist is the only site I ever walked away from due to the behaviour of the owner. I remember the last straw being Wuji ranting about translators using untranslated Asian titles being lazy incompetents and generally him being a real asshole about it and talking down at them. Not to them, at them like he's their superior or something. All this while having the name "Wuji-GEGE".

    He has a "Christian" in his title but if that was a sample of his normal behavior, I'd say he's as Christian as a Great White Shark. Aggressive and carnivorous. Despite liking some of the titles on his site, there is no way I'd support him treating translators like that. Hence from that day on, I have never went there again.
     
  17. ExcitableFoci

    ExcitableFoci Well-Known Member

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  18. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    Enjoy living in your bubbles punks

    I should make good use of this thread:
    BRIE LARSON FOR PRESIDENT!!

     
  19. Nightow1

    Nightow1 Well-Known Member

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    The only person who thinks he's big shit is you, Bubble Boy.
     
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  20. Saorihirai

    Saorihirai Well-Known Member

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    uh...wow. Well that was fun lol. So much drama. :blobpopcorn_cool: I'm gonna refrain from saying anything since RWX did a great job at defending himself and restoring my faith good business with ethics. :cookie::cookie: