Discussion PERFECT FORMULA FOR XIANXIA NOVELS

Again you are assuming too much, while i cant speak for other people, in my case why would i feel dopamine rush or the instinctive attention peak when i read damsel in distress? All i feel is cliche and boring.

There is some truth in your post and i still dont know if i lack empathy or not but i believe i am practical person.

 

Better yet, we can not further feed the narrative that xianxia is mass-produced jack off material, that'll only hurt authors who put in real effort but get looked over due to the low effort stigma. Hunter x Hunter, for example, remains one of the most popular shounen manga without a single female lead or sidekick.

 

Even tho I fux with the homie daresan, I have to agree.

I would not describe myself to anyone around me as a for lack of better words (otaku) even though my knowledge on books, manga, and sadly to say hentai, is at the pinnacle.

Not a single person, (besides some kinky girlfriends), even my family members, know that i read, or do anything involving this type of shit.

For example, im 6'2, 190 pounds, and look NOTHING like i sit and binge read for hours. IF anything, i look like im on the beach all day.
I have a job and adult things aswell, im essentially a (two-faced otaku).

So when you made this post, it is literally the exact same thoughts i have about these novels.

What type of guy doesnt want to see the MC plow heavenly beauties? Gain power, and be intelligent? Only virgins or people that havent laid pipe on a real life beauty would disagree.

I say this because the reason I am writing a novel right now, is due to this exact reasoning behind this FORUM thread.
There is no author (atleast that I have found) that actively incorporates REAL LIFE LOGIC AND HOW THE WORLD WORKS TODAY, along with the culture of wuxia and cultivation worlds and these 3 points you made. Some have come close, but to no cigar.

Obviously, the MC im writing right now. He isnt just a 'dick thinker', quite the oppsite, he is extremely intelligent, ruthless and scheming and 1000000% wont send himself to a death, a disadvantageous position, or go to any lengths just to 'get in' with the beauty. But, he still has the logic of a man, an actual normal man, who has emotion and desire.

All the japanese beta male tropes, (and sorry for my french ahem), P*SSY MC's, I cannot relate to WHATSOEVER, because my 'American' culture doesnt let me.

use the real world logic of women on cultivation novels. thats what im probably going to attempt, meshing both of them together.

I know what im saying is a bit of a contradiction because, obviously in cultivation worlds the culture is completely different.
However, you cannot expect me to believe that, ESPECIALLY in cultivation worlds, there would be even LESS obscene women, twisted physcopaths, criminals, and ruthless beings than in our own EARTH. ( in our world, look at GENGHIS KHAN, THE MAFIA/MOB, YAKUZA, THE DARK WEB, ILLUMINATI, CULTS, ASSASSINS, WW2, pornstars, OF models, camgirls, etc, we are a dog-eat-dog world more than ANY NOVEL ive ever read.

In the workplace people want your job, they are jealous of you if you are in a better position.
If you see someone with a nicer lamborghini or ferrari, you feel envious.
If you see an absolute 10/10 walking wearing a 250,000$ watch. You know that you will never have a chance.
These are just a few examples but, if anything, our world is as equal to if not more cruel than some of these so called 'cultivation' novels.


so when all authors describe cultivation novels describe cultivation novels as a dog-eat-dog world, im assuming its gunna be BARBARIC,RUTHLESS, AND HAVE PEOPLE LIKE WILDERNESS KINGS in places that dont have absolute powerhouses watching over them.

ex#1: my novel is going to have this exact premise, the continent he starts from has human land that has sects and family clans of which their powerhouses watch over their territory, but the unexplored lands have myriad races, barbaric (villager type wild) humans who operate on 'apocalypse' style life.
If you see someone you dont like, kill, if you like a beauty, steal them, etc. Thats what im expecting when someone says 'dog eat dog'.

ex#2: when an MC's clan or benefactors get taken as hostage and stolen from him, what usually happens is that, he hears about it, gets emotional, then powers up and takes them back and everythings fine again.
NO, HELL NO, LOGICALLY, when people who HATE YOU and WANT to MURDER YOU they arent gunna just take your loved ones and play house. No, they are gunna r*pe, torture, and fucking murder all of them, they arent just going to sit and wait until they all get wiped out like cmon?


idk bro
maybe im nuts.
this is just what i think honestly.

 

How exactly does "your experience" say anything about what the majority feel though?

 

Good question.And the answer is that we humans can only use our experience to observe, compare and deduce the most probable truth. I’ve interacted with boys since when I was a teenager, in school and outside, even in different countries, and when it cames to liking this aspect of a novel, the huge majority showed great interest, but only a minority reacted negatively of with indifference. Of course statistically my sample can be too small, and a scientific psychological study would collect data from thousands of people all over the world before drawing a conclusion, but this is why I said ‘in my experience’ and not ‘this is a scientific proven fact’. If one day such a scientific study would be really made and the results would be that the people who like the save-the-beauty scenes are a minority, then I will humbly admit that I was wrong in my estimate.

I agree that such stigma is something to avoid, but what does it have to do with my formula?
Rule N.2 does NOT transform a xianxia novel in jack off material! As I said, rule n.2 only dictates that the MC would often save a beauty in distress and gets her sincere gratitude. Everything beyond that is optional and up to the author.
I really do not understand why the act of saving a beauty can be categorized by some as a ‘jack-off material’. The instinct to help a woman in trouble is one of the most noble and admirable traits in the human male (one of the very few ‘good ones’ if you ask me), because women are ultimately more fragile than men. The added requirement of being beautiful is just to make the experience more rewarding for the reader, because the appreciation of beauty is an universal psychological trait (in both male and female) and even if it is not fair towards ugly women, if an author starts writing novels where the MC prefers ugly girls to beautiful girls, it would be not believable at all and at worst the MC would be categorized as a weirdo with an ugly fetish. Of course you can make the MC save ugly girls too if they are in trouble, but that would never be as psychological rewarding as saving beautiful ones. And because we are talking about rules to make a novel more interesting and more rewarding for the reader, since there are only advantages and not disadvantages, why should anyone oppose it? This is xianxia, not some realistic literary genre required to adhere to the nitty-gritty aspects of real life even if the reader is not pleased with them. Xianxia is a genre born to allow the little humans to dream to be immortals and as powerful as a gods. It is the ultimate redemption of the soul by means of imagination from the shakles of the bitter reality of life. Then why in the world I should reduce the excitment in reading it?

 

Another formula for cliche xianxia novels:

*MC minding their own business*
Random Cannon Fodder: Hey! It's that annoying guy/girl again. (1 chapter full)
MC: Go away! (1 chapter full)
RCF: I don't like you! (1 chapter full)
MC: Who cares! *Proceeds to do what they want* (1 chapter full)
RCF: Humph! You dare ignore this master, you seek death! (or) Do you know who I am?! (or) Can your skills even compare to mine? (or) I will forget this ever happened if you kneel down! (plus 512 more reiterations with the same meaning)
MC: Let's bet!
Audience in the background: Sigh...such arogance. It's the MC'S fault for provoking such a character!
(That's one chapter full, btw)
Battle begun
(Descriptions with like their aura turned sharp, fierce, like a dragon, as if an immortal is descending, killing intent, etc)
MC Won
Audience: NANI!!!?
RCF: *Dead*(or) *Crippled* (or) Hmph! Just wait for my revenge!

Alternate ending: RCF's master or backer or family member or whatever comes down and challenges the MC, saying phrases like "Junior, you must answer for your crimes!" blah blah.

Rinse and repeat.

You can add this to your "perfect" formula
@freemen muaddib

 

i disagree because some xianxia novels are good but don't have #1. there is a trend where the MC is OP from the start because of whatever reason and the story is still good. Emperors domination is a good example of this. i've also started reading novels such as "i'm actually a cultivation bigshot" where the MC himself can't cultivate because no spirit roots but has become a saint in every auxiliary profession such as painting, music, farming etc which makes him the single most powerful person in existence from the start of the story but he hasn't realized it since he can't technically cultivate and thinks he's still a mortal.

 

This whole talk about beauties is quite off-putting and silly to be honest. It's also very, very, very~ contradictive. A truly intelligent and cunning protagonist would never opt for a harem. That only works in fiction because the vast majority of these "damsels" are all badly-written, one-dimensional characters which only ever exist for fanservice-purposes. I mean, seriously: Ever thought about the work that's involved with maintaining a harem? The disputes and jealousies you have to settle? The physical and temporal restrictions you have meaning you won't be able to make your harem happy - or at least not every member? The potential achilles heels the members of your harem pose due to the risk of backstabbing due to the aforementioned issues?

I do admit that I actually like Xinxia/Xuanhuan novels a lot. I also like romantic subplots a lot. But I'd really welcome it if the harem aspects would be toned down. Some novels just get worse upon introducing - especially large - harems. One of the prime examples - at least for me - would be Second Coming of Gluttony (not Xinxia/Xuanhuan, but it's nonetheless a good example). The MC there should just have ended up with his main love-interest Yuhui and maybe Lewd Pink since that love-interest was basically introduced first. Having 8 wifes at the end of the story just made the novel somewhat unnecessarily goofy.

 

If you're really serious about requirement #2 then it's no wonder that I really hate Xianxia novels and Reverend Insanity is the exception to that rule.
Who gives a fuck whether there are pretty girls or not as long as the main character is strong and the mind games are top notch? Sure, it would be cool if they implemented interesting female side characters or "beauties" as you call them. Who doesn't like those? But the sad thing is that every time the writing is absolute shit and the "romantic developments" are so laughably bad that I would be embarrassed to have people know that I've read juvenile shit like this.

You mentioned that "the instinct to help a woman in trouble is one of the most noble and admirable traits because women are ultimately more fragile than men"... this would be logical in any other genre except this one. Because women cultivate, fight and kill too? It just makes no sense to have every female character be the typical sheltered and distressed heroine that looks like a porcelain doll. It is so repetitive and overdone that it just really hurts to read. Having female characters that are powerful, talented or independent... wouldn't that be considered true beauty in such a world? This should be obvious but most cultivation novels don't even try to put it into practice.

But I guess hormone driven folks like you only want a power fantasy they can self-insert into rather than a well written story. Which is why I'm probably not the target audience for xianxia, I guess.

Also, lmao gtfo with that "if you disagree with point #2 you're probably a virgin or autistic". That's hilarious. You're making yourself look like a total jackass here.

 

Your second point is quite mysoginistic there. Sure, women are usually less muscular than men, but that does not mean that they are necessarily fragile. Not to mention, in a fantasy wuxia/xianxia environment women also have the ability to be as strong as (or stronger) than men so long as they put the effort into cultivation.

The “saving beauties” element is not necessary at all. The view of women as only “beauties to be saved” is quite shallow and caters to the human male’s desire for self-satisfaction and sexual recognition. It is quite pathetic actually; it just shows how much insecure males yearn to feel superior. I can understand the prevalence of it since so many men are insecure and want to gain that sense of satisfaction from novels, but it honestly takes away from the plot in most cases. It often feels like the author just throws in a beauty to satisfy the audience, rather than to enhance or improve the story. It also often breaks the MC’s character as well. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been forced to drop a novel because the MC who had seemed to be a morally righteous, smart guy suddenly became a scum idiot to add yet another woman to his harem.

If anything, I’d actually prefer a novel like Reverend Insanity where the MC is pretty much, “Beauty? Just flesh and bones!” You really do not need to throw in random pointless “saving the beauty” scenes everywhere to retain readers so long as the character is good, the plot is good, and the writing is good.

 

brother, If u want wholesome novel then try "Worlds' Apocalypse Online", afterall always fucking beauties is actually boring, you should try romantic subplot, action with harem tag combo for wholesomeness, it will awaken you to try action wholesomeness, if you really want steamy novels then you better read those with lit. sex scenes like "Marquis Eldest Son Lascivious Story" to curb your hownyness,

also don't get me wrong, I don't despise your taste, and it's actually sometimes my cup of tea, it's just that xianxia novels with those 3 formula always has repetitive story and their only saving grace is the mc's plot armor, that's why I recommend romantic subplot because they focused more on improving themselves rather than being carried by author's golden plot armor

Try Transcending The Nine Heavens, Realms In the Firmament, Against the Gods, Returning From the Immortal World....

 

OP, I think most of your points can be summarized in "need to deliver karmic justice." The essential element of a power fantasy is to right the wrongs of the weak(yourself), so the world presented will of course be corrupt, thus justifying your cleansing.

Women are needed to differentiate the arcs, such as a Bond girls, basically achievement trophies.

 

Reading basically harem and different girls per arc just feels insulting, as a woman.
I understand the want to fuck but collecting them like trophies and 'owning them', having the whole debacle and myth over virginity and 1st time and purity culture is so damaging.
Just because someone saves you doesn't mean you wanna/have to fuck em.

Just fuck em and go. Its a one night stand not a vow of marriage.

 

Coiling Dragon is the first Xianxia I would recommend anyone reading. There might others which have done certain things better but in my opinion, it's the perfect example of good xianxia.

 

Every xianxia has an auction at some point.

 

That is Xuanhuan though, not Xianxia.

 

I don't particularly dislike xianxia novels but I hate the harem trope in xianxia. It's just repetitive usually and once that harem formed so what happens next? Nun much just these ladies are fawning over one male.

 

What you described is a Shounen, weak to strong novel. Xianxia's main goal is for the MC to be enlightened enough to reach immortality. That's why it's called Xianxia, Xian = immortal beings. The fact that you didn't point it out made all your assumptions invalid.

P.S. it was too long so I didn't read the whole thing, so feel free to correct me.

 

Was not becoming immortal one of the goals? If you did not become a saint you died.

 

Xianxia is strictly rooted in chinese mythology as far as I know, especially daoism and buddhism, focusing just on the immortality would be missing the point.
Coiling Dragon eschews a lot of that and instead draws inspiration from western fantasy, to a point that I'm not even sure it was accurate for me to call it xuanhuan, I believe there might be a whole different term for it on qidian.