LCD Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka?

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by TUSF, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. Ishmael

    Ishmael 『Night Owl』『Butler』『Traveller』

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    Well now I know why I don't like Shun that much, this is very well thought out ~
     
  2. NZPIEFACE

    NZPIEFACE Leecher

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    To explain Shiro's plan so that everyone remembers it:
    Rip the System away. Removing the System from high levelled people will cause them to die. I have no idea if this collapses their souls into energy or not. The energy from the System would be used into making sure the world recovers. People souls would then be allowed to reincarnate normally, or whatever the hell is supposed to happen.

    I thought the situation was that thousands of years of stripping away abilities and essentially washing the souls was wearing them down. While the planet is basically half-dead, it's not gone yet, but the soul's of the residents are closer to super-close to dead? The System wasn't built to be a long term solution.
     
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  3. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    After stopping to think about it I realize there's so much we still don't know, such as how fill rate compares to world repair. So I'm not sure I can really answer that. But yes, on the current course, all the souls will collapse soon. What this means for the planet itself is still unclear because it sounds like it would survive in the half dead state it's in right now and maybe recover on its own so long as no one messed with it.

    Hmm. Pure speculation following, but maybe Dustin's plan is that they murder like half the population or more, which causes the number of souls in the System not actively being used to increase. This lets them rest between reincarnations, allowing them to recover a little before reincarnating the next time. Then he just keeps murdering people to keep the population low and stable to let the world repair itself really slowly. They don't need to gather as much energy at once as they did before now that there isn't anyone actually using the MA energy now that Potimas is dead.

    I really don't know.
     
  4. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    Part of the difficulty of estimating this is that things like the fill rate are variable (ie unpredictable) and depends upon the situation on the ground. For a given population size the only way to increase the fill rate is for the population to train harder / fight more. This is why Ariel always planned to stoke up wars between the humans and the demons - it was the only way to increase the fill rate significantly.

    If the world became peaceful then the fill rate would plummet, leading to a Bad End where the System eventually collapses and everyone dies.

    Either way, the population is already in decline due to souls becoming more worn out. Gyurie had created a safe haven for particularly worn out souls but given that the world population was declining anyway it seems that wasn't enough - that giving souls a significant amount of time to rest wouldn't solve the problem.

    Very much a case of "choose your poison".
     
  5. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't the issue that your soul doesn't recover while you're alive anyway? So souls near the breaking point wouldn't degrade any more but I don't think they recovered.

    Hard to say.
     
  6. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    Pulling skills from people would recover energy - Shiro's solution wouldn't work otherwise. But the very act of doing that harms their souls if too much is done too quickly. If there was a slow way to pull the skills from people then the number of deaths could be reduced.


    Yes, the System was always intended to be "temporary" - it could never run forever due to the wear and tear on the souls within it.

    They don't recover while they're alive, correct. Though I'd imagine that during the gap between their next reincarnation they'd recover to a better state than without Gyurie's experiment but it's still not enough. The general impression I get is that souls would need 100s of years of inactivity to recover significantly. So forcibly making lots of souls inactive likely wouldn't solve the problem - the remaining active souls would have to work even harder to compensate. Essentially, whether the population declines due to fewer people being born or due to the population being culled, either leads to a death spiral.

    On a side note, I'd imagine that D returning a lot of energy to the System would help. However, if it's "spent" by directly giving energy to Gyurie (or Shiro) and they use it up in their battle then that doesn't necessarily help the System. Basically, it only helps when people die with Taboo.
     
  7. Kphone89

    Kphone89 Well-Known Member

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    I typed out a lot and did editing for over 75 minutes total-and then I decided to erase it.
    I'll just agree to heavily disagree with you.

    Edit:
    WAIT WAIT WAIT. What. o_o
    Does having Taboo when you die change the value of your energy?
    ie:
    N skills worth 100 MA = 100 MA to system
    N-1 skills +taboo worth 100 MA = (100 x N) to system?​
    I had a stupid theory I didn't want to recognize or mention anywhere, but-
    Will Shun's death provide enough MA energy to restore the world because of his Divine Protection of Heaven?​
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  8. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm not saying Taboo is somehow special. All skills are "energy". D gave all humans in the world the Taboo skill. Given the large number of humans that requires a correspondingly large amount of energy. If all that energy was returned to the System itself then it would be in much better shape, though not quite as good a shape as it was in before the Demon King and Hero from ~15 years ago wasted all that energy.

    But... there's a problem: D also provided people with a way to get rid of Taboo. By "praying" to a particular god. Which means that the energy for the Taboo skill gets removed and transferred to the god. Which means it leaves the System. But if people die with Taboo still then the energy would be permanently returned to the System. I forgot to add that if Shiro is able to shut down the System while many people still have Taboo then that would likely also help in terms of the total amount of energy, though would probably also increase the number of people who would die.


    No chance. Even sacrificing Gyurie wouldn't be enough. Only a high level god (Sariel or higher) would be enough at the level of a single individual.
     
  9. IsekaiGuardian1

    IsekaiGuardian1 Active Member

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    I think the novels are better than the anime usually right? While it's fun watching the anime, the producerst skip too much of the novels plot and storyline and leave out important filler content...
     
  10. sjmcc13

    sjmcc13 Well-Known Member

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    That depends a lot on the production crew, sometimes they make it better, but it requires a lot of work figuring out what is necessary background info, and what is just useless filler.
     
  11. IsekaiGuardian1

    IsekaiGuardian1 Active Member

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    I mean like side story content, or they'll skip over a side story plot that adds personality and context to certain characters...
     
  12. Nepagear

    Nepagear Well-Known Member

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    that's the reason why I stopped watching animes that came from light novels, because light novel has too many minute to minute details that explains the plot whole...and also my imagination is much more vast than the scenes *specially fighting scenes* animated in animes, still watching anime kinda helps with imagining the characters appearances so I sometimes still watch
     
  13. IsekaiGuardian1

    IsekaiGuardian1 Active Member

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    I get you. I enjoy reading the novels more than watching the anime. Unless the anime closely follows the novels storyline and doesn't skip any details.
     
  14. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    The web novel and light novel have similar plots but very different tones which makes some characters quite different than they were originally. The manga leaves out everything to do with Shun's party. The anime leaves in all the Shun stuff and cuts down on a lot of Kumoko's inner narration and speeds up or outright skips a lot of some scenes.

    Between the four different ways you can experience the story, I think the web novel is probably the best, but unfortunately the middle third has a poor translation.
     
  15. Tea leaves

    Tea leaves Well-Known Member

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    Kuro might be the most indecisive character in the whole story. If from the very start of operation of the system he quickly finished of Potimas even if he might be killed of by D for ruining her fun and being hated by Sariel for killing a human that she wishes to protect.
    Furthermore Sariel is pretty stupid for being a goddess. Why would she protect the very same human that did not listen to her and want her to sacrifice herself for them.
    After all as long the world is safe and the soul can be reincarnated safely for future life form then everything is good. Now look at her choice the world is going to be destroyed in 100-200 years in the future unless 80% or more souls will be crushed or Sariel soul be crushed and Kuro will replace her in managing the system to buy time and hope fix everything in the future.
    Shiro wants a total reset while everyone else want to continue the shit game.
     
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  16. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's Sariel's fault that she's the way she is, even if it's super frustrating to watch her. She's basically a malfunctioning robot that happens to have broken in a way that was convenient to humans but interfered with the way she's supposed to be doing her job.
     
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  17. Kphone89

    Kphone89 Well-Known Member

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    Although I support the path where Kuro should be willing to kill himself for his love(?) in exchange for erasing the Potimas, I can definitely see Potimas being revived.
    As far as I'm aware, D only stopped his direct interference-godly interference.
    • Kuro could've sent divine oracles to hunt down and exterminate Potimas and his clones.
    • Kuro could've ordered his dragon-monster creations to hunt them down.
    • Kuro might've been able to create mortal clones and sent them to hunt them down (as long as he's not possessing them).
    • Furthermore, both Sariel and Kuro had all the opportunities in the world to kill Potimas before the system was put in place. D was only forcing Kuro to maintain his former stance. "Since Sariel didn't go to kill Potimas, I, Kuro, won't kill him (despite every other dragon trying to kill all of humanity because of that one insect)."
    Going a step further, humanity was threatened merely because Potimas existed so Dustin should've done everything possible to eliminate them. Being Potimas, related to him, or an elf should've been the gravest sin within the religions he controls.
    Foddway should've also prioritized killing Potimas out of revenge. Not only did Potimas ruin the world, he also turned him into a vampire.
    Between human experiments, leading the world to its destruction, and being responsible for the demons who became humanities' enemy, every single human should've done everything possible to kill him.

    -And yet later, all the human kingdoms happily became the "elves' friends".
    &Edit: colors
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  18. sjmcc13

    sjmcc13 Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly, There are side chapters with Shun starting in Vol 3 (vols 3, 4, 6, and 8 or the 9 I have), might need to buy the volumes to see them never saw them on any translators site.
     
  19. Tea leaves

    Tea leaves Well-Known Member

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    You forgot but by Ariel protecting all of humanity (including Potimas) she antagonize all the Dragons. The dragons wants to kill all the humans and destroy all their technology but Sariel being stupid protected them and the dragons couldn't defeat her so they stole the world energy and left. The only Dragon that stayed behind was Kuro.
    Unless your an administrator it was nearly impossible to kill Potimas because of his tech. Most magic doesn't activate when fighting against Potimas. Furthermore any skills and magic that is being supported by the system are sealed. Even Ariel the strongest below an Administrator can't even destroy the elves barrier. Furthermore if they can't finished off Potimas in one fell shoop the world energy will be depleted much faster by Potimas. Cause all his weapons used the world's energy as a power source.
     
  20. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    Actually, D probably wanted to see Gyurie struggle with what to do but ultimately do something anyway. Least interesting option for D would be for someone to be passive. Putting it another way, you could say that D's action was to cause tension... not to protect Potimas.

    For example, in the WN, D specificaly asked/told Shiro to hep Ariel. Why might she do that? Because she probably approved of Ariel deciding to take action and what that would involve.


    It's worth remembering in the specific scene where Gyurie talked to Sariel that D forced the conversation to end early. If the conversation had continued it's possible that Sariel could have added a caveat.

    Still, overall I agree that Sariel is inflexible and while she's trying to do "good" overall, that inflexibility is a problem.


    It's an interesting dilemma for sure.

    If we put aside the question of which option is better and whether there's any better options, you could simply say that Gyurie and Dustin have had a long long time to sort things out but failed so why should they get another chance? I'm not saying that this makes Shiro's solution "right" but it at least makes me less likely to trust Gyurie/Dustin's solutions on faith.


    It would be interesting to see if Sariel gets any further character development. From the limited hints we've gotten it doesn't seem like she has fundamentally changed her opinion but would she do anything differently now? Assuming that she gets rescued in the end, how will she react?

    But yes, it's interesting that the most powerful character on the planet (Sariel) is also the most emotionally stunted. Should we praise her for developing emotions in the first place or criticise her for not developing further?