No I do not, but those are also areas where there are limits to how far we can develop them. Archery takes a lifetime to learn, same with being a chess master, and without the advantages drawn about from the information age chess masters would not that much better then they were a century ago. Chess and Bows are areas with diminishing returns, you do not just keep getting better, the further you go the less you gain from more work. Yes they F-ing do, they can have a better instructional material, but they still have to practice and learn every skill. The next generation is not born with the previous generations knowledge, or capabilities. they have to be taught everything that the previous generations did. Whish is re-learning everything. Learning magic is closer to learning things like math and painting or sculpting, you learn by doing. You can study theory but you need to practice that theory to get it to fruition. Thing is those areas are ones where our understanding and ability have not actually advanced much in the last few millennia, there have been a few individuals who mage great advancements (Newton) but in general it is a slow climb very close to a plateau. Sculptors today are not that much better then the ancient Greeks, they just have better tools. Most painters, skill wise, do not hold a candle to the Renaissance masters, other then some exceptions like Picasso and Van Gogh. But those are individuals who created nee styles or distinct looks, they did not make the Renaissance masters works look privative. There is going to be new spells developed yes, but each generation still needs to actually put in effort to practice and learn them. and more times for disasters causing massive loss of knowledge like the fall of Rome did to Europe. Plus the Vida territory was to over taxed fighting the monster nests in their area trying to survive, and sending anyone who reached a certain point to support the barrier keeping Alda out. Plus thanks to Alda's population limitations the total people during that period is not going to be that high compared to our last few millennia here on earth, and due to the danger of their world those with the change to make these experiments or study the results of their accidents is more then likely much lower. of all the societiey types that have existed in world history Fuedalism, which lambda is stuck in, is one of the worst for creativity and development. Almost every "golden age" is in conditions that the vast majority of Lambda just does not have access to. Here is the thing, the system itself is the biggest faction in why there is no major development. If you are in a tight spot like the Vida territories have been, you focus on the options that are going provide the best increases in your chances to survive. Getting stronger using the system provides better effort to results then refining a spell, or developing a better sword. You get stronger by going out and killing things better then staying in and doing research. This directs all efforts to using the system rather then developing new knowledge. For advancement to take place there needs to be several factors present. There needs to be a need, there needs to be noticeable benefit, and it needs to be easily passed down to the next generation. The Skill/class/rank systems run counter to all of that. It was developed for a war as a way to make people stronger quick. As a result the gains from developing within the system, which everyone does have to do from the ground up, severely outweighs other developments. Just look at crossbows, they exist in Lambda and we have seen them, they are better then bows in many ways (otherwise the Catholic church would never have tried to ban them back in the day) but in Lambda they are an unused trash weapon, because normal bows interact with the skill system better then they do, so development down that line was cut off. Any advancement needs to outshine the system, but due to the power of higher rank and leveled individuals it simply can not, To outshine their fighting capabilities you would need to get close to our modern levels, as we did not really have weapons that could split a mountain a century ago, and Lambda does in high level adventurers, and high rank monsters. But progress there is dependent on the Gods who are not bothering to enable greater heights. Advancement in any area other then min maxing the system is just not going to cut it, any combat advancement is going to need to to outshine that extra level in a skill to be worth putting effort in to, and early results are very unlikely to demonstrate that worth. why develop surgery if you already have healing magic that does the same, the people who can afford the research are the ones who have the funds to pay for the healing so it is just more economical for them to not put money there. farmers are not going to experiment for better ways to cultivate their crops if getting a new rank in their farming skill does the same thing. Necessity is the mother of all invention, but laziness directs how that effort is applied, and the best cost to benefit ration is always going to be the skill system. which they are approaching maximum development level of. Lambda's stagnation is partly due to Alda, partly due to Bellwood's idiots, and partly due to the skill system being to good. Simply put there is no need for an industrial revolution, and the people in a position to start one have no desire as they already live a life of luxury, and those who are not are to busy trying to survive.
Yeah. I dunno how strict the moderation is around here but you might want to cut out the first paragraph or two and watch the language overall.
@Feng Tian If that's the case I don't know why you used that word. I know you couldn't have known this but, I actually looked up the definition of trumpanzee before I made that comment and thought it strange you would use such a political word. So I aired on the side of caution and assumed you simply misspelled chimpanzee then used a unnecessarily political word. I might be wrong but I thought in this forum references to real world politics are frowned upon and should remain out side of conversations unless relevant to the current topic.
Why the need for machine for transportation when there is teleportation. Why need a machine for flying if there is flying magic. Why need a build for weapons like guns where magic and arrows are stronger. It needs funds to advance technology but the ruling party and the wealthy need to be an Alda follower in order to exist. And if a peasant where try to advance technology on there on they will killed. If a country where to secretly fund the advance the technology the country itself would be ruined. It was stated before.
But teleportation is only available to a handful of mages and flying is the same Technology would allow common people to do all that
Also, Origin already shows that magic and technology feed off of each other really well. To the point where Rodcorte finds it a bit unnerving.
Before you use that name as an insult, you might want to take a long, hard look in a mirror. His most unpleasant fault is that he hurls out insults like they're going out of style, Especially when he's winning the argument. You might be projecting here. You, you are not winning the argument. As even a normal 5 year old knows that for the scientific method to apply, two different people have to get the same exact result for doing the exact same thing, barring any unforeseen variables, and the magic in this setting doesn't do that. Let's say the formula for "fireball" is 1+1= fireball. For people with no affinity for fire mana, it's 1+1=0. For those with a weak affinity, it's 1+1=1. For the average joe, it's 1+1=2. For especially talented mages, it's 1+1=11. With a god's blessing? 1+1=101 or more. For Van, once he got Princess Levia on board, it's 1+1=e^pi*r^2. Which throws the scientific method out the window as two different mages using the same exact magic formula can't guarantee the same exact result. As to your "there should be far more diversity because they're on such a small landmass" argument, need I refer you back to the earlier chapters? There is a force that causes mutations and new species to appear, devil's nests, but new species are ALWAYS treated as monsters and either tamed or hunted down and exterminated, especially the humanoid ones. The mother of any such humanoid species is branded "a witch" and set on fire in the public square to a celebration, just look at what Evbejia did to Darcia if you have doubts, and she was an official D-class adventurer in good standing. Can't imagine what Barmack Gordan "mainline" fanatics would do to those born in the slums! Even in a friendly environment, innovation requires a specific need to be filled, an opportunity to find a solution, creativity and hard work to craft the solution, and considerable amount of luck to see the solution actually work as intended with minimal side-effects. Lambda's environment is clearly not friendly towards innovation, especially in Alda controlled areas. As for the language... Vida's races have been shown to have incredibly long life-spans. Ternecia, Gubamon, and Birkyne have been around since the battle with Big G, so there haven't been that many generations inside the Border Mountains. As for the humans, most of them live under Alda's control and he's a serious stickler for tradition. If there are yahoos who set people on fire for growing rice, you can bet there are yahoos that set people on fire for having a dialect or slang too far outside the norm. I grant you that it's still unlikely that Alda's tyranny has shackled the world this effectively for 100k years, but since this is a world where the golds walk the land, it's still possible.
Exactly. Its a matter of making certain magic applications available to the public. Mass scale teleportation would turn any of these empires into an absolute super power... just the limited availability of instant communication is enough to break a neirbouring empire. Its also a problem since alda fanatics cant ruin the advancement of vida countries. So one side would turbo tech up and just roflstomp the alda factions. There is a reason why the scientifically stagnat civilizations on our planet were the ones getting boned by the younger ones. Reread what you wrote. Thing again. Twice to be sure. And then type again. Your arguments are as bad as the previous guys. The flaws in the argument are so obvious I won't even bother refuting them.
@Overlord2019 I think your math is wrong 1+1=2 not 101. If you mathematically wanted to represent that idea more accurately the equation could be 1+m =101 where m represents the amount of magic power put into the spell. Now that I think about it a better way to represent the equation as a whole would be, e= s×(m÷n). So e= Effect of spell such as a fire ball, s=used spell, m=magic power put into spell and n=magical power needed to cast the spell normally. I don't think I set up the equation 100% properly but it's close enough and I don't care to work on it more at this time(also I need more information on how spells are cast to refine it more or make a new equation all together)
It's supposed to be wrong. That's the point. Under the scientific method, 1+1=2 is always true. With the way magic works in Lambda, 1+1 could be 0, 1, 1.6 to 2.4, 11, 101, or some really bizarre number that could turn the planet to magma, and because no two mages can guarantee getting the same result despite following the same exact formula, we can throw the whole "repeatable trial and error" framework that modern science is based on out the window. Does that convey my meaning better?
It doesn't make your point any better. Back to my analogy with gravity. Newtons formula is wrong. And we know that for a century already if not more. That doesn't make it ineffective at calculating about 99.999% events involving gravity. And that despite knowing wtf relativity and quantum mechanics are. The same can be said about engines. No engine is perfectly the same. Even those manufactored by the same person, with the same blue print on the exact same assembly line. And yet we can make reasonable predictions about its efficiency and output. Its no different here. All of science is an approximation, but we build the entirety of out modern civilization ont it anyway. In Lambda there even is a system in place to assist with this. The status screens quantify magic energy, and that in absolute values. It also shows some of the possible variables like skills and divine protections. The rest is indeed trial and error.
I think I proposed a very good example equation. Sure I might be dumb but the fact that even I can formulate an equation at all means that magic is at least some what quantifiable. My equation might not hold up for every scenario but it holds up enough to show that magic has some logic and can be applied similarly to any field of engineering even if not fully comprehended. There is proof of this in the story with the fact that they can reliably produce magical items like prosthetic arms and slave collars. Also you may have intended for your equation to be wrong but, that doesn't change the fact that it's wrong and is an inaccurate depiction of a phenomena presented with in the story that can be at least partially quantified.
If you want to have some kind of formula, you'd have to take into account in no particular order; the magic power of the person in question, their ability to imagine the desired result, their personal affinity with the type of magic in question, whether they have a blessing or title or some thing that would boost the type of magic, like Van having titles that would boost life magic if he could use it. I want to say their education would matter as well and how old they are, but that might just tie back into "ability to imagine the desired result".
I feel that a better analogous real-world field of study for magic would be meteorology. Meteorology definitely follows certain sets of rules, and meteorologists have identified enough of the variables responsible for causing weather that we can make reasonably accurate predictions. However, the variables we simply cannot account for--like whether or not the Sun is feeling particularly energetic in our general direction one day--are enough to make perfectly precise predictions impossible, and there are enough unique variables to account for that long-term predictions are out of the question; I recall one forecasting equation with around nine unique variables that cannot be simplified, and some of those variables cannot be predicted accurately in advance--like my aforementioned energetic Sun example--hence why we cannot really predict the weather accurately beyond a week at best. Magic in Lambda is like that. There is a reasonable understanding of most magics and how they should work, leading to a reasonable degree of consistency in the spellwork by individuals with the same Skills and Stats. However, there is so much more that affects how magic will turn out that being any more precise than "pretty close" is undoable. Magic is a science, but the people of Lambda simply have no means of attaining a higher degree of understanding because of outside factors they cannot account for or control, hence the massive differences that occur when two people attempt to use the same spell.
@xacual You are very right but even so isn't that the point of spells to create a replicable idea of what you want with out having to focus on the idea in your head. Also assuming all the requirements are met my formula though not complete is a good base for a more precise one. @The Godly Aeolus I like your line of thinking. I believe you are right when it comes to spellcasting but I believe I am still correct in my thinking when it comes to making magical item at least when made buy mortal hands. Mages in the story can produce magical items out of specific materials using currently not known to us or not known by me methods to produce magic items such as prosthetic limbs reliably.
Some firms make those items better than others though, and there are probably specific craftsmen that are talented enough to be name brands themselves. So it still comes down to the talent and skill of the person, the reinforcement from the skill system, and any blessings or titles. Then you throw in specifically Skill related ranks, like what Tarea and Zadiris keep getting....
That doesn't make it unpredictable tho. The underlying laws are constant, albeit with a lot of variables, and that is more annoyance than an actual problem. Nobody said skills and experience don't matter in the end result. They just don't make it impossible to make accurate predictions.
Van has no talent for anything other than Death Magic, and that was being blocked by Rod's curses, if it weren't for his mana capacity he wouldn't be able to use any magic at all.
Magical prostheses are a perfect example of how real-world scientific and manufacturing principles also apply in Lambda. The more precise and functional you want your product to be, the more resources, time, and skill it is going to cost you. Ensuring consistent manufacturing in a pre-Industrial society--i.e. all of Lambda north of the Boundary Mountain Range--is a miserable exercise; now imagine trying to do that with spellcraft, where you can't apply your micrometer to it to decide if it is within tolerance. There is a reason the magic prosthetics produced by Humans in Lambda cost an arm-and-a-leg--pun intended. Because the craftsmen literally can't have everything done by machine or factory to ensure consistency, they need to do it manually, spells included. Human hands can only get so precise due to our physical limitations; I doubt there's a Skill that enhances eyesight to such a degree that a smith can determine whether their alloys are flawed at the crystalline-lattice-structure level, nor do I think there is a Skill that allows people to just know what kind of enchantment their product will need to do exactly what they want. It's all trial and error without good measuring instruments.