Discussion Posts Moved from: Ero Novel with Strong-willed Girls?

"desire to reproduce" is human nature. Wanting to "rape" someone is a manifestation of your "desire to reproduce" unhindered by rationality.
The feeling of power and dominance is also interrelated to the "desire to reproduce". Men will naturally have that feeling of "dominating" a woman when having sexual intercourse. I don't know if it's "I want to dominate because I want to reproduce", or "I want to reproduce because I want to dominate", but they both go together. It's not limited to "rape". Any man having sexual intercourse in a non-rape scenario will feel the same thing. I personally think "rape" brings more sexual arousal through the "untouchable" feel, accentuating the woman's worth. The more worthy the woman seems to you, the more satisfaction you'll have when having sex. It's basically the saying "forbidden fruit is the sweetest". Why wouldn't you want your fantasy to be something out of reach?

 

Wouldn't morality also be part of human nature? Part of what makes us human is the fact that we have a moral sense which helps us decide right from wrong. That moral sense should lead people to understand that rape is inherently bad, so raping someone shouldn't even cross their minds simply because of a "desire to reproduce".

Personally, I don't think rape would bring any satisfaction. If you think a woman is "untouchable" and "worthy", and you rape her, then I think it only shows you knew you weren't worthy of her so you decided to use violence to get what you wanted. I think it would be much more satisfying if she consented because she thought you were worthy of her. Also, I get the having a fantasy out of reach thing but wouldn't a better fantasy be that you want her to like you back and consent to sex, not that you want to force her?

And just wondering, you note that men are the ones who have the "desire to reproduce" and rape, but why don't women (they can rape too) have that same desire to reproduce? Why do men only have it? If both had it then it would be consensual.

 

Morality is a thing that can easily change. Right now, the world is peaceful and resources are plenty. But think what will happen if war suddenly broke out and the status quo changed. The sense of morality from 1000 years ago is different from the sense of morality right now. Depending on your environment, it can easily be destroyed, altered, or implanted. It's not something as intrinsic as the "desire to reproduce" which will never go away.

If a woman gave you consent, that would make the woman "reachable". The less the emotional attachment the woman has for you, the more "out-of-reach" they seem and the more "forbidden fruit"-like they are. I'm pretty sure erotica authors deduced this point. That should be why they're writing rape scenes.

Well, I'm a man so I'm only talking from my perspective. I wouldn't generalize it for women too. If I should say a little more about it, men usually have sadistic nature and women usually have masochistic nature. So It's hard for them to be exactly the same.

 

Would you be able to say the same about murder though? Going by evolutionary standards, through "survival of the fittest", it should be considered natural to want to kill off their competition. I don't think murder is a common desire many people have, and in this same way, I don't think rape would be either. Sure, the "desire to reproduce" probably won't go away any time soon, but I don't think that is linked with rape. Many rape victims are young girls who can't even get pregnant yet and those of the same gender. Clearly, these situations don't show any desire to reproduce.

I agree that morals change depending on the environment, but after so many years and past tragedies, I think most people would be able to keep that moral sense they've evolved. We are able to look back at past events and understand how wrong they were.

Yeah, while I don't agree with it, I guess I kind of understand why you would want the "out-of-reach" aspect.

Hmm, personally I think that rapists (either gender) do it because they want to feel power over their victims. Maybe because of how prevalent patriarchy has been through society men have stronger feelings of power over women. I still don't really understand why it is only men with the desire to reproduce though.

 

Murder is indeed another act of sadism in the same group as rape. But is murder linked to any intrinsic desire such as the "desire to reproduce"? Urge to murder usually springs from other emotions such as grudge and hate. It could be the "desire to dominate", but if it's just that, there's plenty of other ways to get that desire out. Is "desire to murder" the purest form of "desire to dominate"? Only murderers can answer that. No one will murder just to find the answer to that. If you can't discover it in the first place, that desire will stay confined forever. That's also better for society because you can't release it legally like "desire to rape" through erotica.

To me, there's nothing "untouchable" about weak young girls who don't even have sexually attractive features. So I can't understand the sentiment of those rapists. I don't know what drives them to prey on young girls, but I personally don't like seeing sexualized loli's in any type of medium. Them having an interest in weak young girls might be a whole new topic. Are they sexually attracted to them? If they are, then regardless of being able to get pregnant or not, they might still have a "desire to reproduce". It's something their body tells them without going through rationality. They might find "beauty" in those girls being small and weak. They might think their innocence is "untouchable". But that's all I can imagine. It's something I can't conclude without hearing from a pedophile himself.

Morality is artificially made up by human rationality which can also sway easily. Sure, it's been built up over a long period of time, but it will get destroyed in the blink of an eye if big enough an event such as a nuclear war, sudden climate change, or destructive meteor collision happens. There will be a lack of food, shelter, and protection, and amidst the chaos and the fight for survival, morality will change completely. You're regarding morality too highly while banking on the world being forever peaceful. You will get satisfaction as a "social animal" by living in accordance with morality, but no one is forcing you to apply morality to your imagination. You follow morality to get along with society, but no one is demanding you to do more than that. You can live in society while having your own sense of autonomy and ideals. You just need to not cross the line. If you follow society blindly, you're somewhat losing your "independence". The government wants that because they want people to be easy to control. It's not a bad thing if society is united, but you will gain more sense of fulfillment as an individual if you seek your own "independence" while following society. You can still do what society tells you to do to a tee, but at least if you're aware, you won't be a puppet only thinking inside their box. If everyone thinks the same, society will get stale.

Women sure do have the desire to reproduce, but is their "desire to reproduce" the same as men's? As I said, men's desire to reproduce is interlinked with the desire for dominance. But women's desire to reproduce may be interlinked with the desire to be dominated. In that case, women's "desire to reproduce" will be "desire to be raped". They might want to be raped by men regardless of the men's will. I'm not a woman myself, so I can't go into much detail than that. But that should be the gist of it. I heard shoujo mangas are quite rapish.

 

At this point, I think we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree here. Here’s a couple points I wanna say though:

As a woman myself, I can tell you I definitely do not want to be raped. And I am sure the same would go for you as well. How would a woman’s desire to reproduce be linked to a desire to be raped in any way? If they wanted to reproduce with someone as well, it would be consensual. Rape is when one party does not consent/ does not want to have sex and it is forced onto them. (and for shoujo mangas I’m pretty sure those who read it only like it when the ml is good-looking, they think the ml is possessive out of love towards them. I doubt they would have the same reaction with an ugly bastard.)

When people feel sexual desire, it isn’t just coming from wanting to reproduce, but instead seeking pleasure. We have contraception, people use it when having sex especially because they don’t want to reproduce. They have sex for their own pleasure.

More than anything, I just want to make sure that you aren’t justifying rape in any way. Would you feel understanding/ sympathy towards a rapist who had harmed someone close to you or even yourself? Would you think their actions are okay just because you think rape stems out of a “desire to reproduce”?

Rape is something that I’m sure everyone knows is bad, we don’t need society to tell us that fact. When you are literally forcing the other party against their will to submit to you, I think it is clear that what you’re doing is wrong. I understand that everyone has their own fantasies and fetishes, but you should know that those thoughts are not normal and justifiable.

 

Rape is bad because society exists. Animals won't feel that rape is bad. Or rather, there's no concept of "rape" for them. It's part of nature for the strong to dominate the weak. If we strip laws, morality, ethics, human relationships, and rationality, what we've got deep inside us is the same as what the animals have. Now, if we put back the laws, morality, ethics, human relationships, and rationality, are those animalistic desires gone? No, you're just suppressing them with those "restraints" society gave you. If society didn't exist for us, you would think it's natural for strong men to rape you. It might be hard to imagine for you, but you should realize how fragile a human being is as an animal. If you don't have the protection of society, the food and shelter they give you, you will "adapt" to the harsh new environment. If it's necessary for survival, you will think that it's natural for you to be raped by the strong. Of course, you won't feel that way right away because you firmly believe the happiness society guarantees you is natural. Although that way of thinking is the norm, that's still naive thinking.

"If they wanted to reproduce with someone as well, it would be consensual" - it's hard to say for women. Even if they have the "desire to be raped", how would they make men rape them? Unless they have some mind-controlling ability, they can't. That may be why you stubbornly insist that there needs to be "consent" even in your ideal fantasy. But then again, shoujo mangas are rapish, so it confirms the existence of that sort of desire. You're just not aware or can't connect it to the "desire to be raped". Of course. When I say "desire to be raped", I'm omitting "by someone you're strongly attracted to". Why would I talk about some ugly partners in a fantasy discussion? Imagine that there's an extremely handsome guy with a personality almost perfect to your liking. Which scenario do you think will give you more satisfaction? Him being gentle and considerate asking for your consent or him being assertive and showing that he strongly wants you through bold actions? You talked about liking "possessiveness" so it should be the latter. The epitome of such boldness would be him raping you. This should be the deduction of those shoujo mangas as well.

Pleasure is just what comes with the act of reproduction. We were just created that way. Just because you do it for the purpose of seeking pleasure doesn't mean it's in absence of a "desire to reproduce". They're interlinked. You using contraception is just your rationality's decision. The "desire to reproduce" is something deeper than that. It's something you can't control and just shows up physiologically. Rationality will only help you suppress it to an extent.

I already cleared that up before in many of my replies. There's no justifying rape. Although I say the "desire to rape" at its core is purely the "desire to reproduce", and by extension a better way to liberate yourself than normal sex, I'm still talking within the confines of society... Using fantasy as a liberation tool. If you lose to your animalistic desires, that means your self-control is weak. If you're weak to the point you bring harm to society, you deserve to be eliminated. I'm not gonna pretend to be an SJW and overexaggerate how bad rapists are, but I do feel repulsed by weak people who do things without caring about consequences. Even if they're not rapists, asking me if I feel sympathy towards a stranger is just weird. If anything, there's plenty of kids in need of sympathy in Africa and the Middle East. But I can't afford to sympathize with all of them. I will only sympathize with people I know.

Although I put emphasis on "desire" and proposed many extreme cases for the purpose of making a generalization, it's just "lust" in the end... All I did was exploring lust at a deeper level and connecting it to human nature to understand what drives the behaviour of "rape". I originally wrote things in a dramatic and casual way because it was originally an r-18 erotica recommendation thread. I'm in my mid-20s and don't have too much experience with erotica. I expected a lot of tolerant middle-aged gurus to enlighten me, but I ended up getting interrogated like a rapist by seemingly afraid minors (in terms of mental age) instead... A lot of erotica has pretty twisted world views, and I was expecting people to be much more knowledgeable than me. Connecting "rape" to human nature isn't justifying. I never said human nature is good... But denying it as human nature when there's an outrageous amount of rape erotica available with a large number of fans is just denying reality. Just because you don't have greed right now doesn't mean greed isn't human nature. Don't assume your lack of knowledge to be some moral high ground.

 

As an end point: the OP request wasn’t a problem. You have your dark fantasies, requested recommendations, period.

I personally don’t like it, but it’s not my place (or anyone) to rule you as a person, that would be invasive.

Point is, someone criticizes your request, and your replies came with a bunch of ... sorry, bullshit that you’re repeating over and over as justifications.

“desire to reproduce”, “to affirm masculinity” among other craps. Worse, you’re implying that everyone is like you inside, but afraid to assume that, which is, sorry, how you justify to yourself your dark fantasies (that again, i say, you don’t need to justify).

To sum it up, stop spreading bullshit, ppl are raped daily and this kind of imbecile arguments will only feed this behavior. You don’t have a source, neither an application of scientific method to enforce your statement, so let’s stop it here.

 

XD Thnx for some unconstructive personal attacks. Starting from your Sigmund bullshit, you're just imposing your views on me. If you wanna argue, bring logic. But I'm kinda done with this bs so please no more.

 

Hey I don’t really want to fight a random person on the internet so please research this subject on your own (one’s with reliable sources) These comments arguing with you (and rightfully so) are probably going through one ear and out the other so for the sake of everyone do your one research and see if still have the same mentality.

 

Hello, FBI, I’d like to report a criminal.

 

People don't rape just because they have the desire to reproduce if that was so why not have consensual sex. For example if you are reading erotica since it is fantasy in your eyes why not read something purely vanilla or not rape sadistic stuff after all it is still the same desire to reproduce, but you won't, why cause you don't simple have the desire to reproduce you get off from the sadistic thoughts. People who rape don't rape cause they can't have sex, they rape cause they enjoy tormenting their victims that is what gives them pleasure. The crying, the hurting their victims etc gets them sexually off. There is absolutely nothing pure about that.

There is nothing really wrong with your fantasy as long as it is kept as a fantasy maybe a little weird but not the worst fantasy out there. Anyone who has read female erotica novels knows that there are dozens of women as well who have rape fantasies. The issue starts with you justifying it as a part of humanity that everyone is trying to supress and that as long as we had the possibility to rape a women of our choice every man would jump at the occassion after all it is our desire to reproduce. That is completely false. You keep trying to say that it is normal cause we are animals deep inside but we humans evolved in such a way that we know that when we are hurting someone it is wrong. That is what sets us aside from other animals and the reason why we were able to construct an entire global civilization. Our morality was not created because of society but society was created because of our morality.

Again nothing wrong with the fantasy itself there are a lot of people like you. But like you said in your first message you like dominating strong willed women. There is no desire to reproduce in that. Just be honest with yourself and say you get off from sadistic and dominating thoughts and a lot of people here would have just given you recommendations.