It's been a near year since I first read 'The Abandoned Empress'. Instantly I was attracted to its potential. But that was then. Now, thinking of it makes me sigh on the best of days, and wish it were a piñata I could beat to breaking point on worse ones. My brain can hardly function well enough on a regular day to properly word what reading this was like; I instead use that time to consume more fulfilling media that doesn't make me feel ill will towards their irresponsible creators. Because this truly is a narrative that came about as the result of derelict creation. Since today is a day I feel reasonably present and focused, allow me to explain what I mean by that statement. Spoiler warnings hereon. Before we begin, let me clarify that I had no horse in this race. The moment Allen was revealed to be an obsessive maniac, I could see where the narrative would lead, and to whom exactly. Once you've read enough, tropes, even the ones that bear red flags, become increasingly apparent. It's a shame I could never come to truly care for Carsein, he would've been a healthier fit, but I knew that his affections were doomed already. Perhaps that colored my affection for him. We're all familiar with the general complaints most people have with this manhwa (bad pacing, poorly written cookie-cutter side characters, unresolved plotlines, etc) so I will skip over them. My review is centered around the three 'primary' characters of this story, Aristia (tia), Ruvellis (Ruve), and Jieun. This is because although it initially sets itself up to be a coming of age/into oneself story, TAE eventually plays into its wish to be a character-driven romance. A creator is as a creator does. Four years after Ruve's birth Vita first created Jieun, her blessed child, and through an Oracle made her out to be Ruve's perfect partner. The prophecy was the accepted truth, for everything divine is correct, and the will of the creator is above all. And Then. Vita let their blessed child fall through the dimensions into another world. Humans, unknowing of their God's folly, thus sought for a girl of suitable position and age and decided that she was the prophecized child, and so began the miserable tale of Tia's first life. What happened next can be relearned through the first six chapters of this manhwa, and is painful to read and garners the utmost sympathy for Tia. We learn she's been brought up with a strict education to become an empress, been married to and hated by the person she loved, relegated to a secondary position after the child foretold by the oracle fell into their world, neglected, abused, assaulted (more on this later), become pregnant, lost her child, heard of the demise of her father and then executed. We learn of all her grief and wish better for her. My favorite moment from this manhwa comes soon after when Tia visits the temple in chapter 9 and confront Vita. Tia learns that the only reason she loved Ruve despite all his neglect and cruelty was because of her string of fate, and the way it accidentally got entangled with his (more on this later). In both despair and righteous anger, Tia calls their God cruel and professes to renounce her faith, promises to reject and discard Vita the same way she was discarded by them. Vita accepts it all, because it's one of two times they've acted responsibly towards the lives of our three primary characters, and declares Tia to be a child who forges their path, bequeaths the name 'pioneer'. It is an emotional and creative high point, one that the rest of the story completely goes on to shit upon. Since the manhwa centers itself around Tia, we concentrate on her circumstances and her experiences. We understand her trauma, willingness to move on and grow as a person, and wanting to inherit her family title. We root for her. But we're not nearly done with the first timeline. Jieun is a 16 y/o girl thrown into an unknown world, burdened with the destiny of a 'chosen one'. Duke Jenna, the primary antagonist of the series, manipulates her into believing that having Ruve love her is the only way she can survive. She expects monogamy (as most people in modern times do) and does not get it. She is thrust into a position of power and saddled with responsibilities she has no experience handling (let's be real, a 16 y/o with mere 4 years of education added thereafter cannot handle statecraft the way a girl who has been brought up her whole life learning how to can). With the death of Tia, her husband grows increasingly angry and neglectful and she is constantly compared to and found lacking against the erstwhile queen and reprimanded for her incompetence. Everybody speaks of the special girl with the happy ending, but no one thinks of what comes thereafter. In the end, she dies with her newborn daughter, and carries the pain of a world that believes her to be God's chosen child, but fails to give her any support system to live by. Ruve grows up in the shadow of a Palace where no one pays attention to him. One of the two people he feels paternal affection for dies in front of him protecting her daughter in her arms, and he comes to hate the girl for it. Being the child of a lowborn, he develops an inferiority complex to that girl (who, as most would've guessed, is Tia) who is of pureblood, extremely competent, And loved by the emperor (unlike him). He is further manipulated by Duke Jenna, who tells of how Tia only views him as a way to gain greater power and rule the nation. He is fed both psychotropic drugs (which induces anger, bipolar conduct, and schizophrenia (inducing schizophrenia by drugs is impossible but it's fantasy so alright I guess?)... wonder if it's the fantasy world equivalent of datura?) and lies by everyone around him and finds his confirmation in Tia's icy conduct. This is Before he marries Tia. There's a ton of things that happen thereafter which will be talked about below. You can see the creator, i.e. the author took a lot of time to create an absolute tragedy of errors. All of this could be better if any of the characters could communicate, but their personalities and positions prevent that from happening. Tia cannot bear Jieun's casual behavior and believes Ruve hates her. Jieun cannot approach Tia without being rebuffed and believes clinging to Ruve is her only way of survival and doesn't allow herself to be vulnerable in front of him. Ruve thinks Tia only wants him for his power and finds Jieun's affection to be far too shallow. As I said, it's a character drama, and its 1st timeline pulls that off well. Issues arise with how the story goes about executing its plot thereafter. Initially, it gives the impression of being a narrative about a person coming into themselves, assuming power, becoming self-assured, and overcoming their trauma. Instead, it turns into a shoddy 'love overcomes all' romance with cheap villains who can hardly hold together their schemes. The concept of love in this manhwa is shot to shit, swear to god. Love is built upon multiple things. It can be built upon admiration, yes, but unless one makes an effort to know someone, Love, in its truer (real, if you will) form, cannot exist. Love is built upon the small things, interactions, personal banter, shared memories, etc. In the first timeline Tia 'loves' Ruve because of fatum (fate) alone. Her 'love' persists in the face of cruelty, neglect, anger, abuse, and assault. After returning, she swears to Vita she will not follow fate again and not fall in love with Ruve again. Let's reiterate. She has NO REASON to love him apart from her twisted fate. In the first timeline, Ruve outright hates, despises, and has an inferiority complex towards Tia, and all of that is exacerbated by the weird plot convenient drug. They Never have an honest to god conversation, but even in all of their toxic situation he recognizes tia to be more competent than him and feels attracted to her. This becomes a constant source of self-hatred and disgust. His hate/love towards her dictates his actions towards Tia (whom he believes to be a powermonger), and he only gains instances of sobriety (from the drug) around Tia during really intense moments (when she says she's pregnant, when she loses her child, when she is executed, etc). I once read someone here say 'Imagine having to send off the person you love most to their death' re: tia being executed while ruve and jieun watched and honestly... that's fucking laughable. What the author in the novel in those moments calls love can be at best called guilt, regret, and self-loathing on Ruve's part. His emotions for her thereon are marked with his shortcomings alongside regret and guilt. In thinking back to her grace and competence he almost deifies her erstwhile life. You can delude yourself into thinking you love what you've built someone up in your mind to be, but that isn't love either. Ruve sanctifies Tia's existence in his mind, falls in love with that, and that is what we are to believe his love comprises. (Also I was promised that novel!Ruve wasn't as bad as manhwa!Ruve and I had to wade through a fuckton of abuse apologies and 'Tia wasn't assaulted she stripped herself when Ruve told her to' (when she was in clear mental distress over it thinking it was the only way he could ever feel affection for her and coerced into consent) so fuck you to every single person who made me go through that muck, your ML is deplorable.) My problem with how the author goes about developing romance between Ruve and Tia is how it completely disrespects the experiences of traumatized people and the intelligence of the readers. Even If someone wanted to go about writing something which redeems a past abuser (eg. 2ha, which sufficiently redeems the MC but I still dislike for entirely different reasons do not ask me) the only way a sensible person (be it a character or reader) would be able to accept it would be if the abuser addressed their past actions, made reparations for them, and then made an effort to build something positive with the person they hurt. The writer does that here with Jieun. Jieun also hurts Tia, but through her POV she is the one worst-hit here. Remember when I said accepting Tia's scorn was one of two times Vita acted responsibly towards the lives of these characters? The only other time is when they offer to either send Jieun back to her world or go back in time. I honestly understood her choice. The memory of her life before is long faded, perhaps reeking of comfort she cannot see herself have in again now that she's experienced so much hurt. Called God's child, yet isolated, neglected, constantly looked down upon, and scolded by her husband who only ever compares her to his other dead wife (who may have tried to kill her) and then even losing her child. She too burned with a desire for vengeance. But on seeing how Tia and Ruve have changed in this timeline, she makes belated attempts to aid them. She retains memories of her life and nearly kills Tia only to save her and then helps her uncover Jenna's actions. Her presence alone in the last life caused Tia a world of hurt, but in this life, she trades her abilities to save Tia. She redeems herself because she makes reparations for her past actions. But Ruve? He's an entirely different person with the only knowledge of his actions from the first timeline coming from a letter that he wasn't even supposed to read. I completely understand that he's not the person who abused Tia in the first timeline, but as a reader, it's difficult to accept that the girl who was rendered catatonic for 2 days straight because he merely raised his voice went on to marry him. The writer seems to think that writing misery porn about ML's backstory in the first timeline will give him character depth and serve both as an excuse for his actions in the past and as a good foil against the 2nd timeline's new and improved version of himself. Maybe these cheap tricks work on others, but it doesn't change the fact that whether under the duress of drugs and mental illness or not, his actions are veritably registered as abuse in Tia's mind. This begets the question 'is a mentally unsound person liable for the hurt they cause others?' and the answer to that is yes, yes they are. Tia has PTSD from her last life, and all of that is brushed under the rug in the face of affection from Ruve in this life. This is such a slap in the face of what overcoming PTSD is like.. here in Tia's mind it's 'just get over it lol' that's not how shit works dearest author. Giving reasons for committing abuse does not negate its existence, nor its consequence. It feels even worse that Tia had to change to be a more socially engaging person for Ruve to fall for her in this life. She had to change to become palatable and understandable to Ruve in this life so he can stop hating her and then love her. Tia's feelings for him in this life also seem to build upon a shoddy foundation. Theirs is one of the flimsiest loves I've read (even if you were to take away the 'abused in former life' angle) and I say that as someone that used to read Mills and Boons novels to waste time. I'll finally answer what I meant about irresponsible creators. Of course, in mishandling the lives of the aforementioned characters, Vita is one of the creators I speak of. The other is the author. In writing their 'love overcomes all' and 'deep down he was a good guy, actually' and 'forgiveness is so romantic even if the person you love is the one who traumatized you thoroughly before' romance novel, they fail to properly recognize and portray with consideration the many heavy issues that come up with executing such a plot. They were so focused on making excuses for their ML and making the romance work that they failed to recognize just what they were romanticizing and what they have failed to write well, and I pray that neither they nor anyone who likes these sorts of novels has to suffer half of what they glorify. There's also a ton of things to say about plot holes everywhere, about how no time frame was given as to the administration of the convenient fantasy drug so it can become a consistent (with 1st timeline) plot point in the 2nd timeline, my thoughts on Allen, Carsein, and Jieun's fates at the novel's end, etc, but at this point I'm tired and I'm sure you, the reader of this review, is too. Thank you for making it this far. My contempt for this novel has been building for quite some time, I know I'm insane for making such a long comment but ya know? to purge something vicious from your mind you've just got to give it the shape it desires, and for me, that shape was this comment.
Oh, I wanted to rant so badly about this webtoon and I am so glad so many people feel the same! I honestly thought the FL will go with character C because hey! let us be honest here... of all the three, C is perhaps the best! BUT NO! FL goes right back to ML who discarded her, raped her (he did, in a way and you can't change my mind), insulted her, literally drove her to madness, killed her family, and then sacrificed her! LIKE BRO WHAT ARE YOU EVEN THINKING!!! I was so happy with the flow of the story where she was traumatized and yet was slowly coming out of it thanks to the amazing new people she was meeting or the new bonds she was forming (I'll be honest here, I really adored her relationship with her father). I really liked the fact how she was so adamant about avoiding the royal life and was FINALLY picking up her own path and going all badass with the sword and all... and then SHE GOES RIGHT BACK TO THE ONE GUY WHO LITERALLY LEFT HER TO GO MAD AND THEN DIE!!! WTF!??? I am so so mad and so so angry that C just stood by and watched when he clearly was the best partner for her! I am not even gonna talk about A because that creep is a downright manipulative person and too obsessed. I was so happy with the flow of the story in the first half and then it just kept going down and down and down. So disappointed! I mean, we had the potential of a really awesome and badass FL but what did we get?
*actually liked the whole story from beginning until the end* I feel like Tia had plenty of time to grow closer to Ruve and realize that he was not the same person that had hurt her in the previous lives. Sure, they have the same name, appearance, voice and position, that's basically where their connection ends. This Ruve is not that Ruve. It makes no sense for her to overlap the two of them. And well, as time passed, she understood that much and came to terms with that and became able to look at Ruve for who he was, and not for who the alternate timeline self was~ I feel like it was a pretty happy and sweet ending, I enjoyed it very much~
Lmao. People who said "forgive and forget" are probably children who haven't even dated. If you get hurt or cheated once you can curse your partner for like an eternity and carry the trauma for ages (yes im talking about even in different timelines).
I can hate people that did me wrong for pretty much forever, but I won't blame someone that never did me anything wrong~ That's called being mature and not blaming someone for something they did not do. Granted, things aren't as simple when you're traumatized after being killed by the one you loved, but it's not impossible to overcome a trauma... The MC had plenty of time and opportunities to understand the difference between what she saw in the original timeline and the Ruve of the new timeline... They're different people altogether, it's unfair to both him and her for her to think of him as the same.
Alright, I'll decide to jump into this thread, which honestly is somehow more heated than political debates in the comments of newspapers, something I'd never thought I'd say. For context, I've read the manhwa up to 80-90 chapters but dropped around a year and a half ago, partially because my interest had been waning, and partially because out of the color-coded MLs, I liked the carrot the most (Carsein was obviously the most healthy option for the MC, Allen was a bit too obsessive and even if Ruve had Jesus's personality, it wouldn't make it healthy for Tia to be around him) and he apparently wasn't going to win. It had been a while, so when I saw this discussion on the forum list I decided to take a look. Honestly, I had no idea 1st timeline Ruve had forced/coerced MC before I read this thread...*shivers* yuck, that's truly horrible. Aaaanyway, the main issue, I think, was the author's handling of Tia's PTSD. It was brushed over, since there's no way she could have willingly married--happily, for that matter--her abuser, even from an alternate timeline, had this PTSD been properly written. The fact that this still somehow happened just throws Tia's previous characterization as determined to alter her fate, becoming her own independent person, out the window and makes her seem cheap and forced. If they wanted to write a forgive and forget novel, they shouldn't have written the trauma as so serious; she could have a more mild trauma to make it a bit more believable that she would accept Ruve. There wasn't a need to write the r*pe scene. (I mean, look at all those other second chance novels where they die before reincarnating, they don't seem to be too hurt mentally despite having their heads chopped off and betrayed by their closest ones. No one seems to care too much about this fact, either, they just kinda brush it over. "Yeah, if someone betrays me and causes my death after years of trust, I'm not going to feel sad, I'll just feel an immediate desire for revenge!" -random person who had a second chance) The writing of the theme of "fate" makes it seem even more ironic, since Tia follows her original "fate" as being the empress, despite supposedly being able breaking free and resolving to do so. I mean, she even received a name to reinforce this idea, and her earlier resolve to inherit the house and be independent must have just kind of vanished in the face of love or something. As for 2nd timeline Ruve himself, I don't have much of an opinion on his character--he's obviously a much nicer and stabler person than his previous self in 1st timeline, but I've honestly forgotten much of his personality. He's not guilty of 1st timeline Ruve's sins, either, but it's obviously not healthy for Tia to be around him considering her trauma. Maybe he's actually a horrible person (a lot of people seem to think so), but I didn't read the material for that part so I can't really judge. All in all, I think the novel had a strong start, but I don't quite understand why it was written the way it was if the main CP would be with Ruve in the end. It honestly ends up almost disturbing, as if fate really is impossible to subvert. ~~=((+))=~~ Now, I'll address the other thing that was bothering me: I don't understand why you (@Dimension Breaker) would word it like this... @ATrueStory really was only stating that they opposed the use of death threats and arrest on the author. I don't understand how this means that they "lack significant arguments", they didn't defend AE, nor did they say the author was correct. When you said: I wondered: why did you refute them in the first place, then? Literally the only thing in their first post on this thread was that they disapproved of the use of censorship. You replying and accusing them is perfectly fine basis to assume that you're on the opposite side, those who think it's ok to threaten writers. In later replies China was brought up, regarding censorship. Specifically, it was said that I dunno how this somehow justifies your argument, though? So you're saying that "even China" censors writers, we should too? But China's all about that censorship! Most think it's over-censored, I mean, a great number of platforms are banned in China, including Wikipedia, which I cannot find a valid reason for censoring. They are by no means a bottom line in this case. Restrictions should be there, to keep the site from overflowing with inappropriate content, but why are you the judge for what should be censored or not? Censoring content should be left to the site's admins, not you. Just because your reason seems feasible to you doesn't mean everyone agrees, and there are already laws and rules in place to make these things clear. There are an abundance of nationalist stories on NU that almost go in to racism territory, but NU doesn't censor them. Later, you state that And your point here is that nsfw lgbt+ stories are worthy of censorship, then? What does this have to do with AE? There's also a reason why wishy-washy authors who listen to whatever their readers ask for are looked down upon, alright? AE's story is...not that good, and the author should have done their research. But this doesn't mean it should be wiped from the place--after all, this is just my opinion. Just because an author persisted and wrote their novel in a way you didn't like isn't enough of a reason. They didn't break rules on the site where they posted it, so it will not be purged. In fact, reviews' primary purpose is to let others know whether the thing is worth reading/buying/using/playing (although feedback to creators is also part of it). Normally, if the novel was so bad, people would steer clear because of the reviews. Obviously, this was popular enough to get a manhwa so some people liked it. I assume they were like @AliceShiki and just didn't bother to read into it too far or are generally forgiving enough in real life to think it believable. However, and I must state this again, you are not the standard by which to judge which novels are to be censored or not purely because of the nature of the story. Just stating that the novel "glorifies abusive relationships" or something is not enough basis. Plus, others would beg to differ.
To clarify my point, rather than not reading too much into it or being forgiving, I think that Tia's situation with Ruve is more of a thing of separating two separate beings. Past life Ruve and new life Ruve simply aren't the same person. While past life Ruve was without a doubt a big source of trauma, and new life Ruve share the same name/voice/looks/status that the old one... They're not the same person. They don't have the same personality, they didn't act the same, they didn't feel the same, they're just... Different people. A way of thinking about it, would be if someone was traumatized by a person, and because of that they started hating said person's identical twin... I mean... It's not the twin's fault that you were hurt, and you shouldn't hold them responsible to it... Sure, traumas aren't simple enough to be handled by logical reasoning alone, but that doesn't mean one can't come to terms with the fact that the one that caused the trauma was not the Ruve in front of her and that the Ruve that loves her has nothing to do with the man who ordered her execution. At least that's how I view it. I don't think it makes much sense to portray it as a story that glorifies abusive relationships or that doesn't know much about how traumas work, because uhn... Overall, I think the author did a pretty good job with it~
Have you even read @Lamune44 's review on Ruve's character? HE is still the same person even in 2nd Timelline. He's just in love with Tia now that the victim has change her personality not because she wants to but because she needs to. He is only nice to Tia because he didn't want her to return to her indifferent personality which should have been normal for an aristocrat so that they would not be taken advantaged. Going so far as to self victimize himself that she's cruel and blah blah blah when he didnt even respected Aristia's own wishes. The author did a good job with her Trauma? how laughable. Did you even read @Lourie 's review? I guess you lack critical thinking.
I'm surprised with your mental gymnastics how you viewed all these comments of mine negatively. In the end, my only point is that Authors should never tackle themes they cant handle because if they do, then we wouldn't be discussing how much of a shit show AE is, wouldn't we?
Carsein > Allen > Ruve Why? Carsein - actually respected Aristia's wish and wants the best for her. Allen - Obsessive BUT actually had the strength to let her go before his own obsession have a negative impact on Aristia. Ruve - Aristia had to nearly die again before he decided to let her go. GET IT???
Well in that case there would be no need for you to argue with them about censorship or mention China...what mental gymnastics do you refer to? Example please? Anyway, I consider AE to be better not have ever been written, but at the same time it's not easy to tell whether someone can handle themes in a story or not. Otherwise it wouldn't have been written, because they'd know they couldn't handle it. Obviously the author still thinks it's not too bad, and some people agree. I don't think this problem is so easily solvable. Ah, sorry for misunderstanding. In general I don't think it's that easy to separate them considering that one is literally an alternate universe version of the other. Simply the fact that they looked similar would be enough to make it strange for Tia to have gotten over it...humans rely on impression quite a lot. But we all have different interpretations, I suppose if the trauma healed enough this would be Tia's thought process anyway.
I don't see why I would need to read other people's reviews on the story when I read it myself? *tilts head* Basically all his actions in the 2nd timeline look almost nothing like the ones in the 1st timeline. I don't see how you'd consider both the same person.
Because they are the same? Same appearance and the same soul. But in this new timeline he is not fed with convenient fantasy drugs? *Tilts head* He changed because the victim changed herself? I guess its no use changing the mind of an abuse apologist. *sigh*
I don't see what would make them the same person when his behavior is completely different from the previous timeline's behavior. And what do you mean abuse apologist? Since when did the Ruve of the 2nd timeline ever abuse Tia?
I partially agree with you, he is not the same but he retains some of his personality traits from the first timeline, if you don't remember Tia came back when he was about 15 years old (correct me if I'm wrong, I read the novel about 5 years ago).
"Ruve is a changed man", lol. No, his second timeline isn't really different from his first timeline self. The only difference is he is in love with Tia now. In chapter 132 Tia took an oath of loyalty to the emperor, dude basically threw a tantrum in front of bunch of people. He was shameless, was reduced to a man-child. "A wise emperor would accept that oath, don't you think. But I will not do so". Okay, so that means he isn't a wise emperor and he puts his feelings first, what an irresponsible ruler. Uwu, dude repeatedly said he would always respect Tia's wish, but he forcefully kissed her when she expressed her objection and said "Looks like I lost control for a moment" sorry not sorry. Ruve is amazing, everyone. What a hypocrite, he's even an incompetent ruler. His country is protected by plot armor, so it's fine I guess.
There is a bit of overlap indeed~ Though when Tia came back, both were children~ I don't see how any of that is relevant? Did Ruve abuse Tia at any moment in the 2nd timeline? That's what we're talking about here, isn't it? You don't need to like the character nor the ship, we were never discussing that. All I said was that you can't really consider 1st timeline and 2nd timeline selves as the same person.
Again and Again, same appearance and same soul. The only difference here is that he's whitewashed by the author because of their misogynistic idea that only the women main characters gets to inherit their past memories. It really is no use arguing with a person with no critical thinking. give your brain cells a favor and don't read the novel. lol Only people with an internalized romantization of abusive relationships would love the novel. The story in the beginning gives off a deceitful tone of Aristia leading her fate and striving to become a strong, powerful knight and heir to her house. However, we barely see Aristia's capabilities as a knight, and even Carsein's, who is thought to be the genius swordsman of the empire.