Discussion In a World of magic would science develop well?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Bad Storm, Jul 21, 2021.

?

If the world is ending, you come over right? you'd come over and you'd stay the night?

  1. Go home Stormie, you drunk (I am at home...)

    17.2%
  2. Sure, why not?

    20.7%
  3. I'll be busy panicking so sorry but no...

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Tell me your address and I would!

    13.8%
  5. I'm trying to survive here, buddy, and you wanna chill at home?!

    24.1%
  6. ...

    6.9%
  7. *other fun answer Stormy didn't think of*

    17.2%
  8. *noms Skullie*

    27.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Bad Storm

    Bad Storm no thought, head empty

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    Let's say magic has been prominent since the making of history. Even common folks could perform simple magic that could make their life easy. Using wind magic, to dry clothes. Using fire magic to start a fire for cooking. Using a community portal to travel to different places. You get the point. In a world like that, would science still develop well? Or would manpower be diverted to magic research instead of science? Is magic research different from science? I generally think of magic research as finding a way to efficiently use magic while conserving mana mana(or equivalent resource). That and the use of scrolls and seals and runes to make machinery work without human intervention. But machinery falls into science and tech? Does it not? Is it Magi-tech? :blobdizzy::blobdead:

    Good morning/afternoon/evening. Dunno why I'm giving myself some mindfuckery in such a early morning...
     
  2. AkaNoOu

    AkaNoOu Well-Known Member

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    Humans will probably do anything to make weapons stronger so i guess they will try magitech weapons and civilian inventions will go on from there
     
  3. Bad Storm

    Bad Storm no thought, head empty

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    I don't even know why we like weapons so much. Wonder if weaponry will still develop if there's no threat at all.
     
  4. no168_92

    no168_92 BrokenDoor|NeedsFixing|LackingFunds|DonorsWelcomed

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    It's human nature to sow conflict, the difference is scale... from kids brawling to empires colliding....

    On the possibility of engineering/science developing like IRL, it depends on many factor, let's say a genius inventor sparks electrical based research, or a fire/water mage using steam for power gen....

    Or maybe 'muggle' kind exist and focus on non magical development, etc...

    That's the wonder/problem with theoretical/fictional settings. It depends on conditions or the equivalent.
     
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  5. Bad Storm

    Bad Storm no thought, head empty

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    Indeed. Personally, to end this mindfuckery, I just decided to tell myself that it depends on the author....
     
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  6. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Generally speaking, inventions are made out of necessity first and foremost~

    So... If the necessity for science research was low, it would probably progress slowly~
     
  7. Deleted member 369806

    Deleted member 369806 Guest

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    To begin with, good morning to you too @Bad Storm
    Let me see, I kind of agree and disagree, the thing is, historically (you can call it religiously or mythically too if you want, depending on your belief of course) speaking there were mentions to magic in lots of the stories (I am not talking about anime or novels and such) like kings of old taking sorcerers and such as their advisors and the like, from such stories, magic in reality was nothing alike what we read and see in novels/manga/anime/etc... but seems to be something else entirely different.
    If we are talking about isekai/mana/magic/etc... (like Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei) magic is a force of nature that can be culminated, studied and even applied in some way meaning that it can be manipulated but the said "magic" in reality seems like something out of nature, something abstract that requires help from supernatural like beings in some myths and religions, and is in lots of stories just ruses used by people of old to achieve some sort of better life by tricking their kings/leaders, that is why science can't go hand in hand in with magic in reality
     
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  8. albeldayuia

    albeldayuia Can't-Re Member

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    There probably would be curious minds trying to rationalize magic and maybe they'd find ways to explain it with physics and then magic and science would develop hand in hand?
     
  9. Bad Company

    Bad Company Crossing the highways of fantasy

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    It depends on the story the author wants to tell.
    There are stories where science and magic are intertwined. The Throne of Magical Arcana and Release that Witch are examples.
    The Magus of Genesis is an example where science and magic are separate.
    That is the reason why most stories are in medieval settings so it doesn't really matter.
     
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  10. Goblin Sleuth

    Goblin Sleuth Well-Known Member

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    You are treating science and magic like two opposing forces, but they have never shared such a relationship. Science is the unbiased study of everything. Magic has multiple definitions, historically it was a fallback, used to explain phenomenon our ancestors didn't understand. In fiction it can take almost any form, but usually refers to some sort of power that doesn't conform to the rules of reality.

    Now if our society had always had access to magic it would not compete with science. Magic would just be another one of the countless subjects that science covers. Magilogy would be the study of magic, and Magilogist would be a scientist that studies magic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  11. Bad Storm

    Bad Storm no thought, head empty

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    Yup, the way old stories describe magic is definitely a lot different from our current science. They are more of a show about how magical creature and above what simple humans could do on their on. A show of might imo.

    But I like systematical magic. I like when there are rules to how it's used and develop like, as you said, Mahouka. Doesn't have to go science route. Even discovering the rules of magic while being in a magic tower is fine to me too.
     
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  12. Noble Ran

    Noble Ran Evil Ordeal

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    I don't think it would be possible for science to even exist in such a universe, as all the creativity and effort would be poured into the research of magic. Moreover, there's no evidence that science and technology is the only path for evolution and progress, so, supposing that magic or some kind of otherworldly power existed in some planet, it would definitely be that planet's civilization's own 'science'.
     
  13. Bad Storm

    Bad Storm no thought, head empty

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    It's not that I'm treating them like opposing forces, I was just thinking that instead of becoming a scientist, they might prefer to be part of a magic organisation that research magic instead. Coz it's more likely that a magic tower of sort would be in existence than a science lab for magic. Like @AliceShiki has said, most of technology are developed out of necessity so if magic make things convenient would technology still grow in a rapid pace? But on the other hand it is also true that rational minds would like to rationalise things regardless of circumstances like @albeldayuia said. I wonder if these rational thinkers at some point just leave with a thought that magic is just a mystical thing, nothing more to understand. Or would they research a lot despite all the failures to understand the concept.
     
  14. Blank-1

    Blank-1 Fantasy-holic

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    My feeling on the matter’s the same as Goblin sleuth’s.
    Science is fundamentally about understanding stuff, and technology is about implementing that in applications
    The magic research you explained would be the applications side based on magic theory research, which itself would be a field in this fictional world’s science
     
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  15. Bad Storm

    Bad Storm no thought, head empty

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    Aye, simple is best. I'm just malding about specifics so yah don't mind me...
     
  16. Deleted member 369806

    Deleted member 369806 Guest

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    If you ask me, realistically speaking, saying "discovering rules of magic" is like saying "finding the last number in infinity", this a domain of concepts and theories that can't be applied because the current rules and laws of science make it almost if not completely impossible to put into practice such things, best we can do is just to debate such ideas.
    Nevertheless, if you believe in the supernatural, then you might want to start looking up stuff on black magic, demons, Jinns and stuff like that, if you succeed try to find its rules and put it into scientific practice but I really wouldn't recommend that
     
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  17. Goblin Sleuth

    Goblin Sleuth Well-Known Member

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    From my perspective a magic tower and a science lab for magic are basically the same thing. The second option just has a more modern feel to it. In both cases though it is a place for people to study and develop their magic.
    Humans will always seek out new and better ways of doing things. The only difference here is that our technology would likely operate on some principle of magic. Most like as some sort of power source, as opposed to something like electricity, or steam.
    Just think about Quantum Physics, a branch of science where the result actually changes if you try and measure it. That is literally the closest thing you've got to real life magic, a subject that seems to defy reality. Still you have people attempting to understand and rationalize it. To create a theory that can accurately explain it. Magic will never be too mystical for science, it is the opposite the more mystical is it, the more science will fervently try to understand it.
     
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  18. fteg123

    fteg123 Well-Known Member

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    Here are some suggestions of science being developed in a magic world.

    Does the world know about bacteria and/or viruses? Does it interact with the world by infection or can it be eliminated by holy or healing magic? If it is the former, then microbiology, virology, and/or pathology may be considered. If it is the latter, then how long do they live? They could research on defensive spells (against wounds), gerontology, and immortality. Can everybody use the same magic or are there disparities (i.e., genetics)? There may be magic research for improving magic (i.e., physics) or how magic is used/made in the body (i.e. organ).

    Alchemy (or chemistry) may be taught on how chemicals interact (i.e., solid, liquid, gas; hot, cold) or how to make effective potions (drugs [pharmacy], poisons,...). Botany may also be taught to understand the plant anatomy and physiology. Animal Science may be developed to understand magic animals.

    Do they have earthquakes and weather? Then, meteorology and seismology could be considered? Do they have stars that they want to study on or want to study outer space? Then, astronomy may be a possibility. Also, math may be a course of interest.
     
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  19. Bad Storm

    Bad Storm no thought, head empty

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    That's actually a pretty nice breakdown of things. Thank you.
     
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  20. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    If magic really worked then it would just another branch of science. In such a world, I'd imagine that the scientific method would develop faster than in our world. The reason is that it's not easy to see the advantage of proper science in an undeveloped world. But if everyone has access to magic and a method could be demonstrated to produce better results with magic, then it'd be a lot easier to get buy in.
     
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