Discussion Meritocracy system in school

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Sproutling, Aug 18, 2021.

  1. Sproutling

    Sproutling We are the Sproutlings

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    1,015
    Reading List:
    Link
    Do you think a school based on meritocracy system is good?

    We actually have that kind of school at our place, and the school always won at competition on regional scale(most of it) and manage to enter national competition(math & science)

    Why I said they are based on meritocracy system, their class are divided from A to F while A being the best in academic and F being the ..... On contrary F is the best in sport.

    P.s I've long graduated and working now.
    P.s 2 not my school

    edit: the placement of class based how well they are in study(overall grade/score on exam)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
  2. Lissi

    Lissi 『Queen of Lissidom』『Holy Chibi』『Western Birdy』『⚓』

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    3,427
    Likes Received:
    21,686
    Reading List:
    Link
    My school's like that

    What other systems are there?
     
  3. SerialBeggar

    SerialBeggar Hate your family? Got no friends? Gimme your stuff

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    3,017
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Reading List:
    Link
    In the US, I can only see a "gated" private school being able to implement such a theme. And by "gate" I mean a high cost tuition and an entrance exam to deter most parents. Public schools must cater to the lowest denominator so even the dumbest kid can pass to the next grade.
     
  4. heavenlytribulation

    heavenlytribulation [One Feared by All]

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2016
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    376
    Reading List:
    Link
    To some extent that is good but it could also damage the self confidence of some of the students but it depends on the situation
     
  5. natsume142

    natsume142 だが、断る

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    501
    Reading List:
    Link
    Ah I remember my high school used to have 16 classes ranging from A - P with each class have around 20-40 students. Class P is for student that unable to converse or write our mother tongue (Malay language). It was crowded af.

    My school are based on meritocracy as well. Its the norm here in Malaysia. I also remember going to the further class (I think Class M) to help my teacher. I saw some kids sleeping on top of the table with pillow while the teacher teaching in class. While other just loitering around.

    It was a whole new world going to that section of our school. I always stay in the top 3 classes and we are separate by our choices of subject. Since I have taken Science and Accounting, I am in Class C while Class A have Arabic language, Biology and etc. Class B have Biology but no Arabic.
     
  6. SylviaViolet

    SylviaViolet Toast to the ones that we lost on the way⚓️

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2021
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    6,602
    Reading List:
    Link
    It's possible for private schools to establish such a system and a lot of them do have something like that, but public schools usually try to keep things equal.
     
  7. ANonMouse

    ANonMouse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    809
    Reading List:
    Link
    depends how close to true meritocracy you can get and maintain it. If you can get very close, you can get a lot of benefits, but if you stray too far from it, you might as well not have bothered heading that way. For example, in some countries, cheating is rampant. Letting cheating happen in any form will completely ruin the positives of a meritocracy based education system.
     
  8. Didact

    Didact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    53
    Reading List:
    Link
    I don’t know, doesn’t it seem a bit counterintuitive to divide classes on the basis of merit? I mean, you’re inculcating a sense of elitism in the children right from their formative years. Sure it would help to separate the “wheat from the chaff” but I’ve much rather have a random distribution of kids into classes. Seems more logical.
     
    Deleted member 369806 likes this.
  9. OxySempra

    OxySempra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    53
    Reading List:
    Link
    In my country, every school (aside from international and independent ones) practises such a system.

    Primary 1 to 6 (7-12 years old)
    At the end of Primary 6, there will be national exams called PSLE. The results from the exams directly impact what comes next.

    Secondary 1 to 4/5 (13-16/17)
    The secondary schools are split into three different streams. They are:
    • Express
    • Normal (Academic)
    • Normal (Technical)
    Express and Normal (Technical) students graduate after Secondary 4, with Normal (Academic) after Secondary 5.

    Express are for the students who did well for their PSLE, Normal (Academic) for the students who did okay, and Normal (Technical) for the students who did not do so good.

    Those who were streamed into Express will undergo O levels for their national exams at the end of Secondary 4.
    Those who were streamed into N(A) will undergo N(A) levels for their national exams at the end of Secondary 5.
    Those who were streamed into N(T) will undergo N(T) levels for their national exams at the end of Secondary 4.

    With O levels, one can enrol into all three tertiary education institutions, namely:
    • Junior College (2 years, then university)
    • Millenia Institute (Similar to JC, but 3 years and offers a different set of subjects)
    • Polytechnics (3 years, awarded with a diploma upon completion. Can choose to go to university after)
    • Institute of Technical Education (Usually for those who did not do well. If one does well here, they can then go to Polytechnics, and further into university if they desire)
    With N(A) levels, one can enrol into the following:
    • Polytechnics (3 years, awarded with a diploma upon completion. Can choose to go to university after)
    • Institute of Technical Education (Usually for those who did not do well. If one does well here, they can then go to Polytechnics, and further into university if they desire)
    And lastly for N(T) levels:
    • Institute of Technical Education (They will enter NITEC. If one does well here, they can then go on to Higher NITEC, then to Polytechnics, and further into university if they desire)
    Yup, as you can see, if you screw up when you were 12 and got into N(T), you are already years behind everyone else from the get-go. And for males, they have to spend an additional 2 years before going to uni.

    On average, Express students will take a total of 15 years (from the age of 7) to get a degree. In contrast, N(T) students will require a total of 20 years instead.

    So if you're a male and went through N(T) and are dead set on a degree, you will be 29 by the time you get there.

    IIRC the government is working to (or has already implemented, I don't really follow the news) improve on this.

    EDIT: Oh and forgot to add, within the three streams, each class are divided into performance as well. And in the Institute of Technical Education, there is a further divide between NITEC and Higher NITEC. NITEC for those who got in via N(T) and H. NITEC for those who got in via Express and N(A)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
    Shipper_notM likes this.
  10. DontLookDown

    DontLookDown One with the bed

    Joined:
    May 26, 2018
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    Reading List:
    Link
    Hmmm. I went to a really well-off public school, so we didn't have a merit system. Thank goodness for that, too. The sense of competitiveness and pressure we already had was pretty severe and we had a bad suicide rate.

    Can't imagine how bad it'd be if the top 5% of each class was also competing for valedictorian or something like that

    Edit: not to say that you shouldn't divide kids according to their ability, but something like a merit-based system where your class or academic profile becomes something you can lord over others...I think that in particular is detrimental

    Should also note that despite not having a merit system, our school was competitive enough to be one of the best in the state, even compared to private schools
     
  11. Neiri

    Neiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    3,173
    Likes Received:
    2,078
    Reading List:
    Link
    Only if it done strictly and no nepotism. Our highschool is like that and the so called pilot class have subjects that the lower class don't have. They don't have terror teachers that power harrass the students.

    It is fine if those one are worthy but guess what most of them are children of politicians and rich people and relative of teachers.

    Private schooll is no different no worst cause I hear they lock their own bags because some of their classmates sabotage by stealing their notebooks.
     
  12. Beer_Kitty

    Beer_Kitty Just a very very drunk kitty that likes beer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,104
    Likes Received:
    2,304
    Reading List:
    Link
    My school changed to that sometime during my elementary days.
    They changed it the next 6months because of the parents outrage.

    For me, its not really viable.
    In the sense that, I'm good at basketball(MVP for 1 interschool games) and even baseball/softball while having atleast top30 grades in the whole batch.
    I can compete both academics and sports. So where would I be put if A is for academics and F for sports.
    If you put me inbetween I can dominate the class since I can do both. My class 1 batchmates is the only one that can literally compete between academics and sports.

    Btw our school was the top in the area in terms of academics and sports during our time. Also its not good if your saying you can only be good at one thing. You can be good in everything, good at one thing or be crap in everything.
     
  13. Benguin

    Benguin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    143
    Reading List:
    Link
    Public schools actually do have this sort of placement, only with different names. The community that I attended middle and high school in the US had a median household income of $153,431, so due to donations, the public schools are also rich af. Consequentially, there was a lot of resources poured into a meritocracy like learning environment, where every subject had a regular, advance, and super advanced set of tracks (I forgot the official name). Take math as an example, there was more or less a 25-50-20-5 spread, 25% in 8th Grade students was learning what the State set as 8th Grade material, about 50% of students was taught materials from 9th Grade, about 20% of students were taught stuff from 10th Grade math, and about 5% of students were actually chauffeured to the nearby high school since there was not enough student demand to set up a separate class for his level. I was part of the 20% pack, and when I moved during 9th grade, I actually didn't learn a single new thing until 12th Grade, the second year of IB...


    I'm also pretty sure that most public school also do have a "gifted" track, just not to the same intensity as the resource loaded school I went to.
     
  14. OxySempra

    OxySempra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    53
    Reading List:
    Link
    Oh and to further elaborate, within Express, if you do exceptionally well, you are offered more advanced subjects that will improve your chances of getting into a Junior College or ease your time there.

    For example, Higher Mother Tongue (like Chinese or Malay) will allow you to be exempt from taking your mother tongue in Junior College (Assuming you got a passing grade).
     
  15. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    18,546
    Likes Received:
    18,145
    Reading List:
    Link
    hee~
    yeah there exist such system~
    academic aside other purpose is to give different kind of education for student~ there always exist "problematic" student~ behavior, dropped academic performance, slow learner etc~ by divide them it can control damage or give special attention to make better student on good way~

    hmm on practice some inclined more toward school competition~ this cat understand it can give fame which relate to social standing to blablabla stuff, if it on private school so be it~ problem occurs it mostly on public school which mostly fond by government heck the teacher and schoolmaster is civil servant, which lead to elitism mindset~

    so there cons and pros, depend on how it implement~ plenty of loophole~

    yeah school competition is good but its not everything~ on flip side not everyone wanna be a successful businessman or scientists~ balancing stuff is hard~
     
  16. Nightow1

    Nightow1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    2,992
    Reading List:
    Link
    I actually had an experience with the reverse, putting "slower" kids into a more or less normal class. It was one of my most memorable lectures and in a bad way. The lecturer spent 45 min on ONE question that the rest of us had no interest in, trying to explain it to the guy who asked. The rest of us? We slept the 45 min away in seats and tables that were not made for sleeping in.

    If schools were going to put us to sleep, the least they could do was give us beds instead of chairs.
     
  17. meliori

    meliori [in a dark tunnel seeing light from afar]

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2021
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    388
    Reading List:
    Link
    It can be good, there's some schools that do assessments on monthly basis then rearrange the classes based on the rankings, looks like it can help motivate students to learn, but that put a lot of pressure which can be bad as well.

    But I think that's better than it being yearly, although it sure is simpler. It'll be hard for students who are stuck at the bottom but are actually willing to work hard, because environments matter, not counting that teachers can sometimes have different attitudes, worse, when dealing with classes at the bottom of the ranking.

    The teaching and learning can be more effective and efficient if the students in the same class have similar speed and progress. They can learn what they need to learn. Not having to frustratingly slow down because their peers are slower or struggling to catch up because they're the slower ones.

    That said, when a class is mixed, there's hope that the smarter kids can help others when they have troubles