LCD Death Mage

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by lygarx, May 21, 2017.

  1. Mastine

    Mastine Well-Known Member

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    You just need to look at Trashmoki from Tsuki ga Michi for the full nastiness of what charm skills can do. People knocked out from his control try to commit suicide from the memories of things they had been doing for him.
     
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  2. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    You don't need to be dead, or see Van as your superior, just look at the the knight that was peeking at his stats, guy went insane just because he thought the food was good.
     
  3. Ani-me

    Ani-me Active Member

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    Man last time i read death mage was like idk, when manga was barely released, and I stop reading because idk
     
  4. Overlord2019

    Overlord2019 Well-Known Member

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    Van is not using mind-control on his followers. "Death Attribute Charm," despite the name, does not strip away the will of his followers. In fact, Borkus just shrugged it off. Van still needs to win them over in other ways, like being a genuinely decent person and being benevolent.

    That's not to say Van doesn't use mind control at all. That's the skill "Mental Encroachment." Even then, Van uses it ethically the vast majority of the time, like helping Julianna deal with the sheer trauma of months-long minotaur gang-rape and being artificially impregnated by the Demon King's oviduct.

    In another instance, he just subtly caused Raymond Paris to slip and publicly confess that he had Rick Paris going around being a male Black Widow, wooing and murdering Scylla women and framing the Amid Empire, as Raymond Paris was using armed force to try and force him to declare that the Amid were responsible for the deaths.

    If push comes to shove, however, Van will abuse "Mental Encroachment" to horrific ends, like he did with the criminal organization he encountered in Morksi, which he absolutely destroyed.

    Don't feel bad for them though, as even in the modern world, their crimes were so heinous that international law considers them as having voluntarily given up all human rights, and they can be exterminated on sight, though the human experimentation thing would still be frowned upon.
     
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  5. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't strip away their will, but it does change the way they think. It's shown as early as Zadiris falling in love with a toddler and Vigaro finding himself unable to send Van away. And while we don't like them, we can also see what it does to Gargya, Gubamon and Gordan: It completely alters their beliefs and makes them desperate to have Van approve of them. Do you think such a skill does nothing to other people?
     
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  6. Eddy andres

    Eddy andres Well-Known Member

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    you are misunderstanding a bit, the power of enchantment what it does is increase the impression and favor that Vandeliu generates in others. In its own way it is a type of influence, that is not going to be denied, especially in cases such as islands or levia in which I do use it voluntarily, but at the end of the day the answer will depend on the person himself.

    For example, with the cases you mention, it is not so much for the charm, it is the nature and upbringing of the ghouls themselves, and while in the case of zadiris it was a more fleeting thought (being a small spoiler, she begins to see it from another way when they are at least the same size), vigaro did it because that is how his society works, and being vigaro one of the most respectful and reasonable ghouls, it would be contradictory to lose the key to save your species, for a title that brings more responsibility than reward. other examples would be jeena, who finds normal Vandeliu as something adorable because he likes small things, zandia who developed a taste for family members, privel who began to imagine how he would be as an adult and eleanore, who without knowing it may have been from the beginning was a pedophile.

    What if it is a little more extreme is the guide, and it is a normal ability, that does not rewrite your personality, but stimulates or brings out sides of you, and it would not work if you did not agree or had rejection of the idea, the most serious thing is how it affects your criteria, and at the same time makes you question some things if you see how fast society develops in talosheim.

    but at the end of the day, nothing would work if people weren't comfortable, if for example he had forced sam to be an armor instead of being a carriage with which he was already used to from the beginning, if he had left rita and saria like ghosts, if I had treated the troop of bones as something replaceable and many other cases that would have been different if Vandeliu had not put in effort is to accompany those good impressions with results.
     
  7. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I'm misunderstanding. I'm just placing more importance on some people having their thoughts and emotions magically altered to greater and or lesser extent. Which honestly answers my original question: Some people do find it as creepy as I do, some people don't. The difference appears to be how much people think it affects others and how much subtle influence actually matters.

    As for the specifics, I'm going to correct you on Vigaro. During their first meeting his initial impulse was that Van should not be allowed into the village even though he saved Zadiris due to Van being an outsider. But then he made eye contact and suddenly his emotions wouldn't allow him to send Van away because he suddenly liked him a whole bunch and the idea of sending him away caused him distress. DAC altered his judgment regardless of his or even Van's own will. Vigaro later grew to respect him more sincerely.
     
  8. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    Uh, no you can be guided, even if your beliefs completely go against Van. We just saw this recently, that knight went insane because his loyalty to the Duchy goes against Van, and his brain couldn't handle that betrayal.
     
  9. The Godly Aeolus

    The Godly Aeolus Well-Known Member

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    If he doesn't get the Stat Bonus from being Guided, it really doesn't count as "being Guided". This is not to say that you can't be affected by a Guidance Skill if you are absolutely opposed to the Guider and his or her beliefs--it clearly has some sort of an effect on everyone--it just won't be helpful to you in any way.

    And I think that in your example, the insanity had more to do with the Knight's extreme misfortune of having pried into the mind of the only being in Lambda that simultaneously possesses the Abyss, Mental Encroachment, Grotesque Mind, and Guidance Skills. Guidance did something, but the results would've been more-or-less the same without it in this instance; actually, the Abyss Skill and Mental Encroachment Skill together probably did about 90% of the damage here, Grotesque Mind and Guidance just put icing on the brain-melting cake.
     
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  10. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    Grotesque mind only works if you get in his head, and mental encroachment is an active skill Van has to want to use it. What happened is that Guidance is a gradual skill, except for Van's, as soon as the guy noticed he'd been guided he ran off to report all he could. The shift in his loyalties started changing the tone of his report, he's caught between being useful to the duchy and not being a hindrance to Van.
     
  11. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    People who genuinely completely oppose Van's Guidance do have mental issues stemming from rejecting the Guidance as they sense what he's guiding them towards. I assume the spy dude didn't really have anything much against Van's Guidance, or at least not to the extent hardcore Alda believers do. Which makes sense given where they are.
     
  12. Eddy andres

    Eddy andres Well-Known Member

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    That last detail, I forgot, the coolest thing I had was the manga, my apologies in that case for my lack of information.

    And on the subject of manipulation, for my part, as you say, I think that as they already manipulate us daily and throughout our lives, as tabita de fallout new vegas would say: you would not like that the voice that guides your life was nice? Or rather, that the person who did it did not try to hide it and that what he was selling you is that you live your life your way? but as you say, it is personal opinion, and the story itself speaks in some parts of how we ourselves value our identity.

    About the personality change, it does not apply to everyone, those who suffer it are mainly the undead, who already before Vandeliu affects them undergo this change, they lose their inhibitions, although it is still the charm ability taking advantage of a bug , I do not deny you.
    actually, I think countrymage is right, mental invasion what it does is open a hole in the brain through which the guide enters, which is the basis of the cursed paintings, it is different from their normal guide style which is to include Little by little an idea and everything will depend on how much it influences you, being able to be there and never be guided, but the effect of invasion and forced guidance is to get you a lot of opposite or strange ideas without the opportunity to digest, there is if I have to admit that It is a terrifying technique and therefore falls in the same league as viruses, the only difference is that it can be used on a small scale.
     
  13. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of "death attribute charm" and it's effects.

    I think the main thing to keep in mind is that it only has borderline mind control like effects on the dead or those in a death like state. Such people fundementally lack a will of their own (ghosts simply exist mostly echoing their regrets and those dead like simply give up on thinking) and because of the death attribute's nature it's especially attractive to such people.

    But for those that still retain their own will and desires the death attribute's effects are much weaker even for an undead where the effect is more just increased feelings of trust and positivity.

    That's not to say Van never attempts to intentionally manipulate people thoughts but he only does that for enemies. For his allies he respects their wishes as much as he can. Even the charm effect he simply can't turn off and accept it as a fact of life that he has to deal with.
     
  14. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    It also affects vampires, ghouls and a broad 'things that crawl' category, which includes both insects and Scylla iirc. His charm abilities also expand when he gets titles like Scaled and Tentacle King.
     
  15. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    No that is his guider skill which merged with death charm but is also a bit separate
     
  16. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    DAC covers the undead, "half undead" and creatures that crawl, such as insects, which is why he can tame bugs. Thinking back on it, I believe I mixed up DAC working on Scylla with Insect Binding working on them, which is also because they crawl. Cause yeah DAC doesn't affect Scylla, now that I think about it. My bad.

    Anyway, Scaled King etc do apply a charm(ish) effect to the races they apply to, which makes them easier to Guide in his case. Non Guiders have held those titles before, so we know the charm effects don't simply expand how Guidance works. The first king of Sauron, for example, held the title of Tentacle King iirc, as did a Kraken tamer. Meanwhile, I don't know if anyone else has had Scaled King, but the effects are noted to normally make your scales prettier, which are a feature Van does not have.
     
  17. xacual

    xacual Well-Known Member

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    The insects thing came from when he started using undead bugs and from the bees being "cemetary" bees. Other than the bees, he didn't tame any bugs until he got the insect user skill, which is when he tamed the centipede and the slime.
     
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  18. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what kind of twisted ass logic the story uses for all that so I'll just assume you're right. Honestly it just felt like the author was working back from his results to get the abilities he wanted Van to have. Uses bugs? Uh.... they're DEATH bugs.

    But I like Quinn so I will forgive it.
     
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  19. Overlord2019

    Overlord2019 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. The Jobs system is on something.

    Sure, he can talk to undead bugs because they're (drumroll) undead, and his "Death Charm" passive skill makes undead give Van the benefit of the doubt, kind of like people are more inclined to go with Arnold Schwarzeneger says than some random hobo.

    This starts to break down with the "Cemetery Bees". They're not undead. They're not suicidal. They don't particularly hang out at graveyards. They're called Cemetery Bees because they're so toxic and territorial that if you encounter them, that spot is likely to be your cemetery. But yet Van's Death Charm works because their species name has "Cemetery" in it? Uh...

    Then he gets the "Insect Guider" job because he keeps undead bugs around and he's gotten friendly with the Cemetery Bees. Okay, that's nice, but then the Insect Guider works on slimes because they crawl on the ground and bugs crawl on the ground? What the ever loving duck?!

    It was revealed that Vida put blessings on Van to counter Rod's curses, especially the part about making it easier to get new jobs to counter Rod's "can't get known jobs" curse, but crimini, there's a difference between being ditzy and being loopy.
     
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  20. The Godly Aeolus

    The Godly Aeolus Well-Known Member

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    Don't think too much about it. Your Mental Corruption level will start rising.