Discussion Antiheroes: You're Not Supposed to Like Them

I often see negative comments or feedback on stories whose protagonists are antiheroes.
I don't like this read because the protagonist or mc:
"...cares too little for the people outside of his family."
"..should be more empathetic with his party members."
"I get that he's an antihero, but he is too callous."
"He could've saved them easily, but he didn't because of some bigger picture. I hate this mc."
...
These often lead to lower ratings. I don't know when the trend that an antihero protagonist or mc should be likable started, but it's becoming very prominent now. I don't understand this. Sure, whether their actions toward the circumstances they're faced with are sound or not is arguable. But, antiheroes aren't or shouldn't be written for likeability. That's why if you read stuff that has the antihero tag on it, you should know what you're getting into.

In a nutshell, stories with antihero protagonists or mcs raise the question "Does the end justify the means?" and appeal to a reader's morality.
That's how I see it... at least for the Asian genre fiction.

 

relevant
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9x2NaGkl6BI

 

Why should anti-heroes not be written for likeability? In the context of Asian webnovels at least, they exist because they appeal to a certain audience. Yes, they also serve as a means of questioning conventional morality and ethics, the limits of individualism, conformity and greater good, cynicism and nihilism and as psychological portraits of the human condition, etc. but this kind of exploration isn't exactly the forte of most wish-fulfilment fiction like the ones here, really. They exist to give expression to our inherent selfishness, flaws, that rebel, anarchist or misanthrope in us, which is also a part of wish-fulfilment, if you ask me (w.r.t. webnovels here).

 

Isn't that become a protagonist doesn't mean the MC must be a good guy? If you read a novel that tells a story about an evil villain as the protagonist, will you expect the MC to do the good thing?
And 1 thing for sure, protagonists doesn't need to be loved by the reader and they shouldn't act like what the reader want

 

Weird, because the thing that I see more now seems to be “MC too doormat, he lets his friends talk bad about him”, or “Why’d he choose that option if the violent way is faster?”, or “How come MC lets people go without killing them if they’re going to be a problem?”

Sometimes I even see people who think it’s boring to have a nice MC. They need a person with no morals instead, apparently.

Maybe it’s just my bias acting, though.

 

It depends, I like anti-hero but not cause he is made to be likeable....cause his/her way is something I and my mind agree on...

people tend to say most CN mc's are anti-hero, but I beg to differ.... Maybe they are in the classical sense, but for me an anti-hero should really just be pragmatic protagonist...


Just cause one killed the ones who killed his family or killed hundreds in a battlefield doesn't make them anti-hero.


Cough*


So the point is, if you feel like they are trying to make them likeable...like reasoning out their actions on moral bases then they are mostly not anti-hero.






Ps: this is just my personal view, it might be that anti-hero and dark-protag are different...but cause of their interchangeable use i speak on its darker take.

I'll talk about my own experience,


From the first xianxia I've read (btth) till now I've seen that in this genre if it's a good hearted mc then they go to this awkward extreme where it turns into nationalistic chuvanism.

And if he is meant to be bad they go down this bandit like, womanizing, petty mc...


So to me who hates both, it's not that I don't like nice MC's but the generic way they make them is really nauseating, you can't fathom how many times I've cringed.


At the same time the majority ver of bad mc is this ruffian who is this macho man that has dominating aura and women who come in contact with him over long periods will be fully ostracized to submit to him psychologically and physiologically,

He will look over a women even if she brought him to deaths door, cause her figure is too valuable a treasure to existence, but at the same time if a guy gave even a subtle wrong look he will grit his teeth and a suitable moral situation would arise where mc has a valid reason to kill him.



Though in both the types women are always untouchable by death, the former one is a little better in this aspect.








Ps: so what I really want in a no moral mc is someone who sees nothing but a bag of meat and bones in any living beings...mind you this is in cultivation novels..cause only that type of character has that vicious depth and indifferent cruelty to surpass any norm talent.

 

Ah, yes, when people critique a story for it not being the kind they like instead of actually judging a story in of itself.

But whether someone is likable or not is very dependent on the reader. Someone might not be written to be liked, but others might still like him or her. Someone might be written to be liked, but will still be hated by a lot of people.

If something has an anti-hero tag, you should at best just know he won't always act the most heroic way possible or possibly even care about any of that.

 

Isn't it scary to grow to like an anti-hero? Depends on the kind, I like Vandalieu a lot, and Isaac too, but damn I wouldn't try to align their way of thinking with mine cuz ain't no way it's recommended behavior. I don't dislike it when they do stuff I disagree with, that's what I expect from them and I have fun reading about them doing batshit crazy stuff that I would never do nor praise. If I became disapointed with their actions because I want them to be like me, that would ring some alarm sirens.

 

Outside of what their intentions/goals and how they carry them out, I wonder what distinguishes an anti-hero from an ant-villain. Another difference would be that anti-heroes are the leading characters and thus arguably get the most screen/page/panel time(s).

 

If the main character of your story isn't likable, you suck as a writer.

 

At the end of the day, anti-heroes are still heroes (just as anti-villains are still villains) so a writer purposefully making one unlikable is probably doing it wrong.

 

No, the antihero you're writing about is the one that's supposed to be there as an imperfect answer (one of them) to a complicated moral dilemma, while the one you talk about is the self-insert in a wish-fulfillment novel, not that I look down on them but I totally do despite reading them tons

 

This video is the basis for what I know about anti heroes

 

Mn, so antihero is a kind of vague word. It's supposed to be any hero (as in, MC) that's not "conventionally heroic". But that's kind of vague. Generally, "conventional" heroes are idealists with great courage and a strong sense of morality, but I guess the definition varies depending on who you ask.

I generally choose whether to call them antiheroes based on how the story portrays them.
So if the story makes MC a much-admired general after winning the war against another nation, that's probably not an antihero to me. If the MC is portrayed as a cruel murderer of thousands in the war, I guess it is. But this is still kind of open to interpretation since everyone understands story portrayals differently.

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure you're not referring to a "good-hearted MC", but a hypocrite.
But I get your point. It's a lot harder to find MCs that keep their morals about them in cultivation novels, since they end up looking like hypocrites because of the whole "dog-eat-dog world" thing going on.

 

Weird, I see more comments with the opposite opinion on novels. Complaints the MC is too nice to people, helps women too much, doesn't slaughter his enemies for looking at him, etc. It's the Incel slaughterfest novels that get higher ratings on the sites I look at.

 

Anti-heroes are likeable because they're more realistic and people are more likely to relate to them.

 

They don't need to be likeable, it is literally in the name "Anti-hero", a hero is meant to be likeable, heroic, accomplish stuff that makes people like them, attracted to them, hold them in high regard, and respect them, but an antihero oppose the way or methods that a hero use to do stuff, for example, if a hero prioritizes the safety of strangers first and without hesitation, an antihero would probably ask themselves "why should I do that? what do I gain from that?" so, an antihero would prioritize their safety first and maybe the safety of their party in second place then maybe, just maybe the safety of strangers in they get something in return XD
The problem is that the definition and the characteristics of a hero changed in alot of the most modern works making it hard to differentiate a hero from an antihero, which probably why such problem of likeability and relatability is now a thing, it got the point where some if not alot of people probably wouldn't understand the difference between a hero and antihero XD

 

Those are called beta male readers
They were raised on mammas milk until the ripe age of 18
After that they moved into the basement and ejaculated to fantasies about saving their top 10 waifus from the demon king and living their days slayin pussy

true sigma phi alpha theta males /females don’t give a shit, antiheroes like fang yuan are a balm to our souls

 

BRO, I kid you not. I fucking see the same shit every time I read a anti-hero protag. People want a merciless fucking douchebag instead of a thought out and interesting character.

Just becuase a the protags edgy and "cold" doesnt mean their cool. The anit-heros of the modern ages is just a fucking loser with emotional issues that cant even act like a regular person/character.

Also, I honestly believe that the people that enjoy and read anti-hero protags are most likely fucking losers. I say this because for some reason they're turned off of the idea of helping people or just being kind. They want to live out some sort of fantasy through this character because they think the actions the character commits to are so "cool" when in reality if the character were a real person theyd most likely be seen as a useless asshat.

The anti-hero of the modern ages is just an outlet for the weak and cowardly to feel strong and or fantasize about being useless.

I, myself, will not deny that anti-hero characters ARE needed in literautre of today. Every story can't just be "Person commits act of good because it was the right thing to do." We need something that would make us hate the character for not doing the deed because it was the right but because they werent paid enough. We need something that would make us laugh because the character doesnt really care and that makes us feel as though that's what we would do.

Anti-heros are needed but not anymore. Theres too many and at this point they all represent the same thing; A person/character that is callous but in reality is emotionally scarred so they have to act weirdchamp in order to get theyre point across.

The day will come when society realizes that maybe good guy mcs truly are better.

 

Well, I can't side with crappy writing - most antihero stuff these days - that only live off the hype of being an "I don't give a f*ck character". Poorly written is poorly written. However, well-written ones should and must not suffer from such reputation created by those.

Again, antihero reads are supposed to question your morality and ask the question "Does the end justify the means?". Characters of such tend to be rational and prudent making them seem cold and apathetic to others. I'm talking about the good sh*t, alright? Crappy "antiheroes" can go rot somewhere, I don't care.

As a side note, good guy MCs/protagonists are often seen as pushovers and taken advantage of. Tbh, that's not fun to read. We often see a world from the eyes of its protagonist, and I'm not a masochist. What I hate more are holier-than-thou MCs/protagonists who push their beliefs/morals unto other characters. True, just as there are well-written antiheroes, there are well-written heroes as well. And the world needs antiheroes as much as it needs heroes.