I have always wondered about this intrinsic distinctions. Whenever an author writes his plot and construct their world, some people tend to imbue onto the narrative things that weren't touched upon by the author or completely misrepressent what he was writing about. Take an example, an abused child did something stupid and bad when he was a child, then he's portrayed to be understandably guilty when he grew up and trying to get rid of his villainous image, but since he has never being taught how to do this he comes off as uncaring because he never "talks" But he "does" plenty of stuff to try and redeem himself (when after that over halve the things he's supposedly done are missunderstandings) Some people think he should apologize, I disagree, because even though he may not say it, he's trying to do the right thing, and the "one" thing he did was when he was a stupid kid. Fine, it's understandable that people might not realize what he is doing because from all this we are in the FL POV. But whenever I try to point out what the author has written and his intent and the train of thought that the plot devices, world building and characterizations have being aiming at... Suddenly I am an abuser apologist. People disagree with me, with increasingly extreme examples, and when I try to point out that you can't really equate a character in a fantasy to a real life abuser, I'm hit with "you sound like you would be ok with abuse" What? A debate is trying to win an argument, and I've noticed that with people from the USA, everything turns into a debate that they have to "win". As a Mexican we don't debate, we have conversations, respecting peoples opinions and trying to explain our position without attacking anyone... That's what they teach us from a young age. If I don't agree with someone most of the time we just let it be... Unless we're having a conversation, an exchange of ideas. Assuming I am ok with abuse because I am understanding of the story the author is writing is... Horrible. A story is just that, words in a paper, regardless of the ideas or devices being wrong or bad, that doesn't mean I'm ok with abuse, I also enjoy "Marquesse de Sade" But I would never "hard R" anyone. There are stories where the MC wants to "save" a manipulative, drug addict, murderer with love. In real life that's impossible, I know that, everyone knows that, that story is just a fantasy, a childish, illogical and impossible fantasy, but still a beautiful fantasy because wouldn't that be nice? That people can change with love? Anyway, what do you think? Is it a cultural difference from my education and The USA education (debate vs conversation)? Shouldn't we, as readers be able to separate a fantasy from reality? Are people too fast to imbue things onto a story?, am I just too uncaring? How far does a person should imprint their own bias?, am I wrong to dismiss real life when reading this stories?
You need to keep in mind that alot of novel (especially certain kinds and genres more than others) readers are people who make emotions their priority more than their logic, they focus on their imagination and feelings more than reality or what is the right or logical thing that should happen, they are people that can't be reasoned with, so, don't use logic to express your point if you are trying to converse with them about any topic, you need to understand that they are not used to analysing and processing in your kind of way, so try to reach to their emotions rather than minds when you are trying to talk to them XD
Personally, I keep fiction very separate from reality. But even I sometimes think “this character is stupid” or “this makes no logical sense” when reading a story. Art imitates life, so I can’t help applying common sense even to something I know isn’t real. Also I don’t think it’s a cultural difference; confrontational people exist in every country. Could also just be internet culture rearing its head. No consequences for getting into an argument, so people “debate” and attack each other’s moral character to get an upper hand lol
A lot of the culture/society in the US focuses on individual achievement and excellence. Family structures are very small, with family past the parents usually estranged or peripheral. Getting along with others/peers and communicating is usually not a focus, and instead being "right" is a major focus. Our media and stories are rife with conflicts between characters that are only resolved with disaster befalling one and the other gloating. Often, our stories are focused on the individual's rebellion from others, and the validation of their worldview, in spite of the opinions of others, either as rebellion from the family, or from the govt, or from society. No reconciliation, no talking, just repeated frames of disagreement -> conflict -> estrangement -> finding something else, and often when there is a chance for peace, the next season/plot arc just uses it as a chance for betrayal instead. Not to mention that a solid 1/4 of our cultural time, is taken up with political debate. In the states, politics is winner takes all, so discussing and refining policy is completely unimportant, compared to just trying to drum up your base and declaring yourself victor. Political rivals spend a full year or longer, trying to convince the voters that their opposition is wrong (debate) instead of discussing the ideas and their pros/cons/nuances/refinements to educate the voters (discussion).
I only read half but I think I got the gist of what you're trying to say. I agree with you to an extent. Readers tend to forget that they are reading a fictional world under the whims of its author. Basically, whatever he says... goes. Say, the protagonist lives in an unforgiving world where mercy and kindness are luxuries. Readers often judge the protagonist's actions based on this world's morality, not on the morality derived from the way the protagonist's world is presented. For readers who just can't separate fiction from reality (in relation to the original post), you can do 2 things: - Visit the author of whatever you're reading and force him to write the way you want the story to go. - Write your own story.
Yeah, I'm not fond of them though, and I've never read one... unless it's a spinoff, but that's no longer fanfic.
So I should have focused on how the Plot was about how the people around the ML were either trying to murder him, using him to elevate their own ego and see him as "bad" because he haves a power no one really understand... hahaha, I thought it was obvious... Just wanted to say, I find it funny that people complain about "word count" in a "forum" about "novels" hahahahahaha
Kind of, it depends on how you phrase your aguments to appeal to their feelings to make your point reach them, just make sure not to make them feel stupid because that will probably not end favourably for you XD
The biggest difference between reality and fantasy is that when a writer creates dialog we have all the characters are forced to listen to what each other has to say. A real-life conversation generally has many speakers talking at each other even on top of another person's thoughts. The written conversation is always written in ask and answer. Each character has an uninterrupted forum to speak the thoughts they want to say. You notice this in movies and TV as well. Instead of everyone blurting out their thoughts to get them out, each character takes its turn listening and speaking.
Such conversations are generally much clearer as well. Real conversations dart about, trail off randomly, are filled with in-group references, etc. There are certainly RL conversations where all involved are being good listeners but even those are unlikely to be as clear to an outside observer as typical character dialog. Fiction is also held to a higher standard of making sense / having a satisfying chain of events than reality. Historical events are chock full of random coincidence and unrelated fortune/misfortune ("and then Bob got pneumonia and died, completely changing.."), to a much greater degree than what would generally be considered well-written fiction.