Heists...just- heists

Discussion in 'Author Discussions' started by IReadWhenBoredSoWhat, Nov 29, 2021.

  1. IReadWhenBoredSoWhat

    IReadWhenBoredSoWhat Well-Known Member

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    Yo, my dear random people into the void.

    Heists. heists
    Here's the layout. We've got a lovely museum with all kinds of fun exhibits (that are in no way important) and our main dear trio, consisting of a group of recent high school grads, one of whom comes from a criminal master-family for Fun and profit, the thug(football player) with a heart of gold(morals), and the nerd.

    They need one item (but others will magically find their way into sticky fingers cause they're kids on an adventure and in need of funds)
    My problem is, how do I make this fun? They just go in and steal the thing. Yeah, the plan could go awry, they could get caught and have to run from guards or the item could have been moved, but that's so
    cliché.
    So...ideas? Go wild
     
  2. Harry

    Harry Now you see me

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    Real fun only starts when you get caught, the next level is how to escape from the prison (I'mma Lincoln Burrows)
    And 50 years later, if the 3 are still alive they can brag how crazy their youth, they're even wanted posters (with reward comparable to Luffy) for them in the whole country and somehow spreading to neighbours country
     
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  3. LK

    LK Well-Known Member

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    Maybe have them get the item, get cocky, make fun of the guards(set up a prank of something?) Get caught doing that then have to escape? Off the roof or through a window is always fun, so are vents.
     
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  4. Lovise

    Lovise Well-Known Member

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    Take a pg from the classic writing guide: introduce some type of internal conflict for the main dear trio. Could be a moral conflict, could be a situational conflict, could be simple rivalry, etc. Suggestion examples:

    1) From your description, you can have the nerd be evil, the thug be good, and the other one be chaotic.
    2) They only need 1 item, maybe one of them get greedy and wants two. This will create a conflict with the thug.
    3) Or maybe the main dear trio disagree with how to get the item.
    4) Maybe they are competing to get the item?
    5) Give each a personal reason to want the item for themselves? (As in the main dear trio is only working together temporally) <-- This requires you to define the item though and give it "weight".

    ^ Should give you a bit of an idea.
     
  5. Silver Snake

    Silver Snake Magician of NUF|Show-off|Awkward|Genius

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    I really liked what Lovise said.

    My advice for if you want to make the actual act of the heist interesting is to characterize the protagonists while the heist is going down, have each of their actions and how how they do their actions represent in some small part who they are. Or you could do fewer actions but have them somehow be more symbolically relevant. And have their personalities inform their actions. You're essentially created a feedback loop where their actions represent their character and their character represents their actions. Because of their character, have them make mistakes. Because of their actions, have them grow as characters. I know the advice is somewhat vague, but writing really is something that grows exponentially from itself. As long as you have a good baseline - and I know how obnoxious this is going to sound - the story sort of writes itself.

    Motivation
    Before a story truly starts, the first thing you need to iron out is motivation. Not only the micro motivation of why a person wants a certain certain thing, but why is that person where they are, what makes them tick, what do they want most in the world beyond this item or job or award, what does it represent to them on a higher level; does the job or award give them as people a sense of value, do they want the item simply because it may look nice as decoration, but then you have to ask, why would they risk so much for a gain so little; adrenaline; could this thrill-seeking come back to bite them and the people around?

    Why would a moral person need to steal something, for what extreme reason could it be? Perhaps a younger sibling of theirs has hospital bills they can't pay, maybe they don't want to steal anything at first but suddenly meet the thief and instead of trying to take them in, the thief/thieves persuade him to join their side.

    The Trio
    First off, I don't like that one of them is connected to a criminal master family. It makes things seem too easy, as if the jock or nerd are unnecessary. Sure, you need a tech guy/girl and muscle, but that's usually for just in case scenarios. Just in case you need to disable the security alarms, just in case things go wrong and you need muscle to barrel out of some place. Their roles are too defined, while at the same time being completely unequal in the setting of a heist mission.

    What you need to do, or more precisely, what I would do, is power down the thief from being from a criminal master family and have them instead just be a theater major/con artist, or a pickpocket - make them more street level - or introduce more characters to fill the roles. Instead of having the thief be the planner, either have the nerd be the planner or have the thief and nerd share the role.

    The Heist
    I really hate heists, I think they're boring, too predictable. Where only two outcomes can occur; they get what they want or don't. My advice, make it so they don't want the thing they're trying to steal; change it from a random knickknack to a cursed item, or an item the entire criminal underground is looking for. Give the characters heat even while they are clear of the heist. They're on the run and on edge. Turn the heist into a quest for knowledge, why do people want it, what significance does it represent.
     
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  6. Darius Drake

    Darius Drake A poster of verbose posts

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    My thought is for you to do an "Aladdin's Cave of Wonder's", where you've got a setup, you do the thing, and right after getting the thing, the exit strategy immediately fails for reasons unrelated to main reason. Like, they plan out this epic heist, and the only things they fully plan out is the break-in and the escape, because they don't know what else they would pick up while they're there. They break in smoothly, they get the first few items for grifting easily, and they even get the thing they need without problem. Then someone trips on a mop left out by a janitor, that ends up having one of the items they're carrying smash into protective glass, setting off the alarms. Now, this wouldn't be a big deal, because their exit strategy included what happens if the guards are alerted by them taking the thing they need, and they have the thing they need in hand, so their exit strategy should still work. Except, they didn't know either about something easily overlooked, like automatic locks, someone trying to break in, or even a guard that was taking an unscheduled smoke break just outside their exit door coming in due to the alarm. Now you have an escape scene where they have to improvise their way out of the museum with their loot, and back onto their exit strategy.
     
  7. Lovise

    Lovise Well-Known Member

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    I forgot to totally recommend you to play Sly Cooper. The characters that you listed are basically the three "main" characters in the game.

    Heist are predictable. However I would argue that it's due to the simplicity that is why it is compelling. Just look at FnF, it is a whole multi-million dollar series. I will say that it is a pretty hard thing to pull off because of how simple it is. As the Snake that is silver said, many writers or rp designers will fall into the traps and make it too "boring, too predictable". It is, however, a pretty good set up for something more though. As the snake said, You'd need a very detailed setup if you want the heist to be epic. But from how you described the heist so far, it sounded like the heist is just a set up.

    Here is an example of cliche ripped off from the writing guide on using a heist as a set up: The trio want to make a name for themselves. They got away with the item and the heist feels "Too easy for them". What if the reason why the heist is so easy is because the museum belongs to a very powerful secret organization? The museum is to "show off" their power. They are so powerful that they didn't think any fool/well established thieves group would have a death wish to offend them. The item that the trio stolen happens to be a favorite item belongs to that group. Maybe the trio "sold/lost" the item afterward. This will make it more interesting when the organization comes knocking at their doors. This will help with the "thrill-seeking come back to bite them and the people around?" A simple situation suddenly become complex and entertaining for the audience. Heck, in fact you can even expand/add on this with Snake's suggestion of a younger sibling. What if it's the thug's younger sibling? The organization knocked on his door and offers him to a deal to turn on his "close friends". If he don't accept, no hospital will operate on his sibling. This will create an internal conflict and test his morality.

    The three things that the snake mentioned, You can separate them for analysis; however I think it is better to write them side by side. As in, solve the problem together as one instead of what computer sciences do: Break it apart, solve it, and piece those solutions back together.

    I will disagree with the Snake, rather than their roles are too defined, I would say their roles are too vague. Criminal family as a background is fine, like in sly cooper. Essentially it all comes down to motivations. Why should the characters care? Because if the motivation is weak, the audience will not care. Motivation is one of the main essences in story telling. An example for the criminal family: well maybe that dude have some internal conflict with his family. Take a pg from Chinese Novels, say Battle through the Heaven or whatever. Dude is from the only son from main branch and he is viewed as incompetent in his family. Dude is in conflict with peeps from the side branch and some of them shine brightly. Side family wants to inherit the main family and takes over. So the heist is the dude start of "proving" himself. Who knows, maybe the side family is gonna mess with the trio's heist.

    Thug is simple, but during the journey maybe he become philosophically complex. Nerd is complex, think too much about life, maybe he encounter a self-realization moment and thus be simple. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    But ya, I agree with snake that it is utterly important to have a strong baseline. (That is what brainstorming part is for). A good writer make the characters do things. The best writers just let the characters do things for them. Hence the story writes itself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  8. Xian Piete

    Xian Piete Author of many mediocre stories

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    So Heist stories usually start with the Idea man coming up with a reason and need for the Heist (He's looking for that last big job, a family member is dying and needs expensive surgery, etc.) Once he has a reason and motivation it's time for him to put together his team. Each member of the team should have a solid motivation to join in the Heist. Once the team is together it's time to practice, this is usually when something unexpected happens such as an injury or sickness or something else that upsets the chemistry of the team. This is when the girlfriend of the Idea man is usually inserted into the team to take the place of the injured team member. Finally, it's time for the Heist. Everything goes smoothly as planned and then it should seem like the Heist is going to fail. An unknown element pops up, which is then solved unexpectedly by the injured team member who shows up out of nowhere to save the day! The finale should be the team wrapping things up at a party as they divide up the loot and each head off into the sunset going their separate ways.
     
  9. frustratedguy109

    frustratedguy109 Well-Known Member

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    They break into the museum only to find another group of thieves already trying to make away with their target item. They get into a scuffle which winds up triggering an alarm. The two groups make separate getaways. The other group of thieves were stealing multiple items. During the scuffle, the first group manages to take away one or two which is not their target, but might be the other group's main target. The police may have a hard time tracking the thieves down because they don't know they are actually following two separate sets of clues.
     
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  10. IReadWhenBoredSoWhat

    IReadWhenBoredSoWhat Well-Known Member

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    YES, shenanigans.
    Also, police follow up. How did I forget that people investigate crimes

    This really highlights a problem with the thug, the nerd has uses outside this B plot that are significantly more important later on but that's that and this is this. The thug though, I really do need to work out more uses than just the one saying "that's illegal" and just being the heart of the group, which while helpful and a valid role, more is needed here. ...that and the other two have great(though questionable) motivations, this one does not...
    I don't really like heists either, though having mission impossible playing while comedically incapable characters do things will always be funny, but I wanted a (semi)serious heist I could have fun with. It's going great so far!:facepalm::bloborz:
    Thank you all so much!

    I love this, BTTH always a favorite. Family conflict for the win. Especially if balanced with a mafia style family, like snake said with bringing in more characters, cousins.
    Cousin Tony called in to help, also maybe sabotage a little on the side. or siblings-can't trust those things with anything important. They will bring you down if the world topples with you.
    Little siblings to protect and be a weak link, old news.
    Little demons of spite that sabotage you only to run to adults and push the blame on you? real
    I get along great with my brothers, why'd you ask?
    Oh, oh! The "powerful" organization could be the cousin's side family! That would work, it's a really big family, Then of course they'd mess with it cause they're the ones getting robbed!!!!
     
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