There are a lot of "经" in wuxia novels, right? For example, 九阴真经 is one of those "经". Now, as wuxia fans know, 九阴真经 can refer to either the book containing instructions for the skill or the skill itself. In the Chinese text at least. So, anyway, my questions are: #1. How would you translate the "经" in 九阴真经 into English? Nine Yin Scripture? Nine Yin Skill? Or use either Scripture or Skill depending on context? “This is a copy of the Nine Yin Scripture!" "Look out! She's going to use the Nine Yin Skill!" Something like that? The problem I have with using Nine Yin Scripture or Nine Yin Manual throughout is that either "scripture" or "manual" is not something you can USE in a fight... A scripture or manual is just a bundle of paper, not a skill... #2. How would you translate this line: 九阴真经是一本很奇特的功法。 Would you say "The Nine Yin Scripture is an odd skill“ OR "The skill contained in this manual is an odd one"? #3. How would you translate 功法 or 心法？ Would you use "Skill" or "Technique"? #4. How would you translate the following line? 九阴真经每提升一级,修炼者可获得一种新的技能。 a) "Each time the Nine Yin Scripture gains a level, the practitioner can gain a new skill." b) "Each time the Nine Yin Skill gains a level, the practitioner can gain a new ability." I guess what I am really asking here is whether 技能 can only be translated as "skill"? Can 技能 in this case be translated as "ability"? If you need further exposition, then I can tell you that the 技能 gained with level ups are stuff like "Immunity to Poison" or "Increased Strength" or "Chill Touch" etc... Thank you for taking the time to read through my questions.
I don't speak chinese, but afaik "skills" are active abilities (combat techniques, alchemy, etc.) while "scripture" usually refers to cultivation manuals (i.e. the meditation techniques). "Technique" can be used interchangeable, but for the readers sake - if possible - pick one and stick with it.
Hi, i'm not into translating stuff and only read a lot. For your first point, i would use Scripture instead of Skill as it is a manuals name. Like, even if it is a skill it can be called "xx Scripture" and then this skill may have other skills incorporated and you could use a skill named so. For your second question, as you implied at the end that this is a thing in a litrpg setting i would use "The Nine Yin Scripture is an odd skill" which also uses the same reason as 1. Third, "功法" is gong fa which means practice and usually means the cultivation method, in this case i would guess stuff like the NYS while "心法" is a heart law? and usually means a seperate mental cultivation method. Fourth i would use a), usually skills are "learned abilities" and normal abilities are inherent. So everytime it lvls up you get a new skill and hence 技能 can only be translated as skill? I may have stuff wrong and thats only my narrow opinion with machine translations and so on but it may help anyway.
Hello, i'm not translator, so my opinion may be wrong. My point is if it pure wuxia or cultivation novel words "Scripture" and "Ability" may be more pleasant to hear. If novel has game elements, than word "skill" will not stand out of text.
#1 “This is a copy of the Nine Yin Scripture/manual!" "Look out! She's going to use the skills from the Nine Yin Scripture/manual!" #2 "The Nine Yin Scripture is an odd manual" #3 功法 techniques 心法 internal energy techniques #4 Each time a practitioner gains a level in the Nine Yin Scripture, the practitioner can gain a new ability." Hope it helps.
2. "The Nine Yin Scripture is a strange and unique manual." or "The Nine Yin Scripture is a manual of strange and unique techniques." 4. "Each level of the Nine Yin Scripture contains a new ability." Are you translating some Jin Yong novels? I thought LOCH, ROCH, and HSDS were already completely translated.
It's one of them infinite flow thingies. The author adds elements from wuxia and gaming and sci-fic etc. So no, it's not a Jin Yong novel.
I'm not a translator, but I learned Chinese by reading Jin Yong and I've been thinking about how these exact terms should be translated into English. And to this day I don't think that there is a correct way to do this. The original is written by one of the all time great Chinese authors and he managed to put a ton of meaning into very compact phrases. This is phrasing that maximizes the flexibility of the Chinese language and it's not really possible to replicate this in English. And I don't think that this is that much of a problem. Sure, any translation is going to lose a ton of the qualities that are in the original but that was bound to happen anyways. So I think the most important way to approach translation is to look at an entire sentence, an entire paragraph, and to distill the meaning of that larger piece into the target language. Don't spend too much effort trying to find the perfect translation of individual words because it's just going to lead to trouble. So use "Nine Yin Martial Arts", "Nine Yin Scriptures", or whatever is appropriate for the context at hand. It doesn't matter that it's always "九阴真经" in the original - English isn't Chinese, and it's more important to convey information to your reader than to keep the same wording out of principle. Also, a slight note that dictionaries won't explain. In wuxia and other related genres, "奇" doesn't mean strange. Or rather, it does but the connotations of the word in English just doesn't match. Whenever you see the phrase "奇人" it represents someone who can be a bit odd, but is also very powerful and worthy of respect. And that's just not a meaning that the word "strange" is good at conveying. Strange oddball people would be described as "怪" instead.
#1. How would you translate the "经" in 九阴真经 into English? Method of the Nine Yin The True Method of the Nine Shadows The Book of the Nine Shadows #2. How would you translate this line: 九阴真经是一本很奇特的功法。 The Method of the Nine Shadows is a book that contains unusual techniques. The Book of the Nine Shadows contains unusual techniques. #3. How would you translate 功法 or 心法？ Depends. Techniques and self-cultivation techniques may apply. Not enough context here. #4. How would you translate the following line? 九阴真经每提升一级,修炼者可获得一种新的技能。 Each time a new level is reached in the Book of the Nine Shadows, a new ability is gained. Doesn't sound like wuxia though, more like game/system stuff.
Nine Yin Manual, Nine Yin True Classic wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiuyin_Zhenjing The Nine Yin Manual is an unusual cultivation method Cultivation method because cultivation methods are usually for cultivating while technique is very vague and can include martial skills, and any technique Every time the Nine Yin Manual levels up, the practitioner will receive a new skill. 技能 should be translated as skill, especially since it's a game.
"Manual" is a bad translation for kung-fu books at large IMO. It put the emphasis on these books being "how to guides". When they generally have at least some esoteric/philosophical content.
These are not "kung-fu books", they are literally martial arts manuals 武功秘籍. If you actual read the original wuxia novel you would know that the 九阴真经 consists of a internal energy cultivation method and a compilation of martial arts styles 武功招式. There is no "esoteric/philosophical content." In the official translation of Jin Yong novels, 《九阴真经》、《九阳真经》、《葵花宝典》are all translated as Nine Yin Manual, Nine Yang Manual, and Sunflower Manual.
"Internal energy cultivation method"... isn't esoteric? Are you sure you know what the word means? By kung-fu books, I meant any text on Chinese martial arts as described in wuxia. Would you like to elaborate on why 九阴真经 isn't one? Or clarify the distinction you make between a "kung-fu book" and a "martial art manual". 武功秘籍 translates literally to "secret records of martial art", btw. I've read Jin Yong, but have you? You understand the material you talk about is fictional, right? You understand that "official translations" can be bad, right? I'm not quite sure why you are so 1)impolite and 2)wrong. Being able to read a wikipedia entry (marked as having issues) doesn't make you an expert on a subject, you know.
This thread actually illustrates why so many cn->eng translations suck, btw. One translator translates 真经 as "manual" once because it makes sense for one reason or another in the context, and people thinks the "correct" translation for 真经 is "manual". Well, it's not.
Chinese tends to be a much more flexible language than English. A particular word in one language can mean a number of different things in the other. Given this, even if you can find the perfect English word to encapsulate what a particular Chinese word, that's only going to be true for the specific context in question. Change the context, and that perfect word is going to be completely off. In my mind it doesn't make any sense to be rigid in applying translations. Just because a term is traditionally translated with certain words doesn't mean that it always has to be done so, or that it even is correct in the first place. In the examples above, 秘籍, 真经, and 宝典 are all different terms in Chinese, so why would it be necessary for them to be called the same thing in English? It's common for translations to use "manual" but it's not entirely accurate. Personally, I don't hate it though because it's a compact term that quickly gets the point across to readers. And in general, I think that this often is more fitting than a more accurate term that's harder to parse. However, that doesn't mean that translators shouldn't keep on looking for better terms to enrichen their work! Side note, 阴 shouldn't ever translate to shadow. In the particular case of 九阴, the 阴 part always means Yin. And the 九 in front of it is using Chinese numerology to tell us that this is the strongest form of Yin possible.
How about 阴界 into the shadow realm. To switch it up with the netherworld etc. I don't think people should have scruple converting "Yin and Yang" to "Shadow and Light", or other contextual variations. That's an excellent point in this case though. When I suggested "shadow", I was thinking about how, in English, the word "manual" brings to mind school textbooks and repair guides. Whereas in the source material, the flavour of 秘籍, 真经, or 宝典 is intended to be much more arcane/voodoo/fantastical. > What popped up in my mind is the Book of Shadows, in Charmed ;P
It should be the Yin Realm instead. I don't think so; and it's because Western audiences are familiar enough with Yin and Yang that there's no need to translate these terms any more. That's always the quandary: how much is the translator willing to sacrifice in order to hew more closely to the original. My take on it is that any translation is going to lose around 50% of the meaning anyways so it's usually better to just go with translations that scan cleanly and are easy to parse.
I don't think the poetic quality of a text should ever be lost just for "accuracy". It makes great Chinese authors and poets look like they write like shit. "Yin realm" just doesn't sound the same as "shadow realm", both because of the semantic resonance, and phonetically. I agree that the Western audiences are much more familiar now (though only superficially), but I'd advocate for always rendering the musicality and intent of a text over practicalities. The mediating factor in our day and age is: add a footnote with the original Chinese and let the interested reader google translate/wiki the rest. I read a great paper on this but can't find it right now. Basically, it said that in translating a poem (always incredibly difficult) what should be translated is the impression of beauty. Failing that, the exact meaning of the words has no meaning. That's, after all, what a human translator can contribute to a piece but a machine can't (yet).
I agree with you overall. Keeping the translation aesthetically pleasing is a lot more important than absolute accuracy. My main issue is that Chinese material that's written poetically is basically impossible to replicate in English. Here's an example I've been working on for a bit: This is the lyrics for the song "Reflection" from the 1998 Disney film Mulan: Look at me I will never pass for a perfect bride Or a perfect daughter Can it be I'm not meant to play this part? Now I see That if I were truly to be myself I would break my family's heart Who is that girl I see Staring straight back at me? Why is my reflection someone I don't know? Somehow I cannot hide, who I am, though I've tried When will my reflection show who I am inside? When will my reflection show who I am inside I think that this is one of the best Disney songs and that it does a fantastic job of revealing what's inside Mulan's mind (and Lea Salonga is probably the best singer who's ever worked with Disney). And then I came across the Cantonese version: 像我嗎 讓我上了妝是否更漂亮 Does it look like me? Do I look better when I put on the make up? 我卻太不擅長 I am not good at it 就算想 令各位親友拍掌 Even though I want all my friends and relatives to clap for me 但我知 若我完全依自己的心意 But I know if I totally follow my heart 會叫我爸媽失意 I will bring my parents down 水中女子跟我 面對面 我非我 The girl in the water and I stand face to face , I am not even myself 為何我跟本應差距這麼多 Why am I so different from the girl I suppose to be 怎可再掩飾我 水中花 鏡中我 How can I cover myself , the flower in the water, my reflection in the mirror 何時我的倒影可反應我心窩 When will my reflection show who I am inside 何時這朵水中花會真正像我 When will this flower in the water finally look like me Instead of being a direct translation of the original, this version of the song takes the same sentiments and transforms them into something that feels much more Chinese. And all the extra imagery and wordplay in this version elevate it far beyond the original. The "面對面 我非我" and "水中花 鏡中我" parts are just so beautiful and just so untranslatable. Hell, you can't even sing these lyrics in Mandarin because it wouldn't rhyme properly! Here's a version in Mandarin for comparison: 看看我 不是爹娘身旁的乖女儿 难成温顺新娘 我不愿为出嫁装模作样 可若是 我被家族礼教三从四德 定会使全家心伤 那是谁家姑娘 在凝眸将我望 为何我的影子是那么陌生 无论怎么装扮 无法将真心藏 何时才能见到我用真心歌唱 何时才能见到我用真心歌唱 It just doesn't hold a candle to the Cantonese version.