LCD Death Mage

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by lygarx, May 21, 2017.

  1. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    For the record, it sounds like he got his DK skill back when he straightened the fragments back out, and is wondering if he made the threat to the Duke after hearing the skill message.
     
  2. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    I guessed this would probably happen with the fragments. I think it would probably be cooler if he didn't steal his death magic skill back but rather redeveloped it from scratch but using past experience as a guide. I wouldn't even mind if his new form of evolved death magic was something more powerful and thus turned this entire incident into a roundabout powerup.
     
  3. Prothvar781

    Prothvar781 Well-Known Member

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    A scholar and a gentleman(woman/soul/etc. I don’t assume). But thanks for the link and update. It flagged my notices and got me to the chapter quicker lol

    Also I defended my wish for the Death Attribute to be a usable but impractical skill for the mimics. Same with the Demon King skill. Sadly this wasn’t the case for the first and the second turned Passive Summon Buff on steroids. So became decently to super useful. As an aside the two monsters are holding an at volume or even yelling conversation about having stolen the Demon King skill from Van in front of the Duke and posse. Can’t wait to see the moment that penny drops for them lol. Gonna be a brick house of highly odorous origin behind them I think lol.
     
  4. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    I wonder about that though, I mean technically Van has no affinity for any magic, let alone Death, but he brute forced it once and is set to do it again. So maybe if the Mimics didn't have such shit stats, they could have used Van's high level skill, to spam some low cost spells, like commanding a swarm of flies to become golems, or something.

    Edit: basically I'm saying that just like the researchers on Origin, common sense got in the way of actually trying to cast any spells like that.
     
  5. Overlord2019

    Overlord2019 Well-Known Member

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    Oh boy. Van and crew can't let Goldie go now, and Goldie knows it.
     
  6. Mastine

    Mastine Well-Known Member

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    As I recall. Having an affinity for ANY type of magic negates death magic being learned. Having death magic meant Van could only learn that and no affinity.
    Trying to use a demon king's fragment also negated any spells other than no affinity in those that weren't Van.
     
  7. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    No he always had death affinity.

    Magic skills don't represent affinity. They represent proficiency. Meaning losing dark king magic just takes away his skill and not the attribute itself.
    By that same reason the mimics can't use it because they don't possess the actual attribute. It's like trying to shoot a gun but not having fitting bullets. Doesn't matter if you know how.
    You have it entirely backwards.
    It's having death attribute that presumably makes other attributes not possible.

    Remember when vida tried to grant van her divine protection his death attribute basically ate it. This probably implies van's death attribute "eats" his affinity for other attributes.

    What your thinking of is a statement made at some point than van's death attribute was awakened thanks to him having no existing affinity. But this was referring to the fact that the researchers only had experimented on him because he had no apparent attribute.

    The fact you become unable to use other attributes if you have a DK fragment also implies it's the death attribute preventing other affinities not the other way around.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2021
  8. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    No what Van has is Death attributed Mana, he has no affinity for magic, not even the one that would let him make No Attribute Mana into Death. The researchers on Origin just dredged his soul so much that it's permanently muddy with Death. That's why his Death Magic is a passive, and all we know about Death Magic so far is only based on Van, we have no author voice overs explaining to us how true any of this is, like when it was explained that the ones studying Van were completely mistaken with their findings. For Van the best that can be done, is bleaching his black mana to get an almost No Attribute, it will always be tainted. This is probably the only time we could have gotten an answer to what happens if you give someone the knack for using Death Attribute, while they still have the use of magic, rather than having been mentally crippled or getting their mana storage turned into an on/off fire hose.
     
  9. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    You're mistaking aptitude and affinity, I think. He actually sucks at death magic, but at least he can USE it.
     
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  10. Prothvar781

    Prothvar781 Well-Known Member

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    I mean this one makes sense even in the context of the chapter. I saw someone complain about exposition and recap. But one of the important parts of the recap were that the mimics needed a portion of soul to steal skills and they were used to people giving up on being able to use skills. Instead Van immediately started testing the limits of his spells without skills and proved that their common sense of “can’t be done without skills,” was wrong by nature. Mentioned the soul part because this explains why Van’s arm didn’t simply rip its way out of Goldie like it has done with multiple opponents in the past. It’s a variant of the Consume Soul skill Van has if we take a super long range look at it.
     
  11. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    To use magic you need an affinity (this is either a talent, or the ability to color No attribute mana), most of which are attributes given to you at birth, Van bypassed this part by just having a massive well of Death mana, and then by training at it you get the skill, which lets you do it with more precision. Technically, by eating Van's arm with a portion of living soul, Goldie had a bit of Van's Death mana, and he had a high efficiency skill Dark King Magic, so he should have been able to get at least one shot off. He just didn't even try though, he just knew that it wouldn't work without an affinity based on his common sense, not on any inherent ability to judge skills since he couldn't tell what the Demon King skill would do until he used it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2021
  12. daxrocket

    daxrocket Well-Known Member

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    We do actually have an author voice over. In Appendix 1, we bet this explanation for death attribute, "Magic that can only be learned by those who inherently have no affinity for any attribute of magic. It might be more appropriate to say that such people are born without an affinity for any other attribute. It cannot be gained by those who have no inherent affinity for any attribute due to a curse."
     
  13. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    You're assuming too much. First of all while it's true that the power to use the death attribute was within Van's soul that doesn't mean ripping off the arm gave Goldie death attribute. Especially not in the sense he can actually use it and isn't just infected with it assuming it's there at all.

    What's especially important to remember is Gundaris and Van are considered unique for their ability to destroy and devour souls respectively.

    Meaning the power to truely harm the soul isn't a power just anyone can have even if they are created by a god of cannibalism.

    As such it's likely FAR more limited in terms of what is stolen and gained compared to Van's power to actually eat souls.

    In this case we know the Mimic's have the power to somehow steal skills after eating a portion of the body with the soul inside it. But given none of Van's other stats were affected (especially his mana capacity) it's unlikely he lost an entire chunk of his soul.

    It might be more like the information for the skill is simply extracted from the soul. Which would mean the soul isn't directly being harm it's just losing the necessary information to possess the skill in question.

    As for how the god was able to merge with two other god's in the first place we're not completely clear on the details yet. It might be something closer to what Fitun did where he merged with Hajime and was in control ... but Hajime was still in there. He was just supressed.
    Exactly. So having other attributes doesn't TECHNICALLY make one unable to use death attribute. IT's more if you have the death attribute then you won't have any other.

    So it's not that the scientists of Origin gave Van detah attribute. It's more they forced an awakening of what was already inside him.
     
  14. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    I'm not assuming as much as you are. Goldie had to devour a body part with a still living piece of soul in order to gain any skills. This is basically the same as when Van shares his mana with others by stretching his soul into their personal space, so by extension Goldie has a bit of Death mana from up to when the arm actually comes away from Van's soul. That plus the skill, should be enough to actually use some magic, unless he burned through it all with the sudden acquisition of his sense of death blaring alarm bells at him.
    It's not an awakening. It's more like you have prefab pond in your yard, but when you test the water you find that it has a tiny amount of iron content (either from the water you poured in, or from where the pond was created), so you drain most of the water, grind at it, refill, and test it again. You just find more and more every time you repeat the process. They basically did the work of an affinity, but mechanically from the outside of his body.
     
  15. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    The fact the body part needs to be alive means that we can confirm the skill requires interaction with the soul. But that does not mean he's outright absorbed part of the soul entirely nor does it mean he got death attribute mana that he can use himself. In fact given his lack of gaining ANYTHING besides the skills themselves says it's more likely he simply stole the memory of the skills and took nothing else. Van always gained stats like more mana when he ate souls so if this was anything like that he'd gain a lot more than just the two skills.

    Also when van enters other people's soul space with his power they don't gain the death attribute. They might have some inside them doing it's own thing but they are in no way, shape, or form able to weild it as their own. The only exception are the 8th guidance but that was due to experiements combined with the fact he intentionally shared his power with them specifically and didn't just pump death attribute into them. EVen then they were only able to manifest specific abilities using death attribute they weren't able to use the attribute freely to cast spells.

    THe fact he can't use the death attribute skill at all means that, at the very least, it's more likely he didn't gain any death attribute mana. It's not IMPOSSIBLE but it's not terribly likely given the circumstances.

    Either way he certainly cannot use the skill and will probably never be able to. Not unless he gets a DK fragment and is able to use the dark king magic to convert the DK's power into death attribute somehow. That is a possibility although how likely it is isn't known as Gundaris himself didn't technically have the death attribute. It's more the attribute was burn as a result of his power mutating within Van's soul. At the very least he might be able to control a DK fragment at 100% power thanks to the DK skill.
     
  16. Bielt

    Bielt 『Planets Eater』『The Sin of Animosity』

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    If that was really what happened Goldie would have self destructed immediately after.

    It's known that death attribute extinguish other attributes and decay life if not being controlled by someone or some magic.

    Van has several hundreds of time the amount of mana a god has and probably thousands of times the amount of mana any non god has.
    An arm worthy of Van souls impregnated with death mana is probably more than enough to kill Goldie dozens of time over or at least extinguish any form of mana he has, so I am assuming that what his skill does is stealing the soul engravings which allows people to use the skill (since it's technically not an actual part of the soul but an add-on) but spit outs the rest.
     
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  17. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    That's the limit of the mimic's version of the cannibal skill, but I'm not talking about gaining Death attribute mana; I mean that if you bite off someone's finger you will have a mouth full of blood, so should be able to use it for the dna locked item you took. He bit off a chunk of still alive soul, Van's soul is soaked in Death, so there should be plenty of Death in the mimic's mouth parts.
    The Eighth Guidance were pumped full of mana extracted from Van, mana that had already been tailored for different uses, basically stored spells. Van just made it bond to them, so that it would actually work for them, as well as facilitating the soul interaction that is the Spirit Form skill on Lambda, so that they could actually move their bodies.
    They were selling lots of cheap Death mana accessories in Origin, and I don't think it would have been as profitable if they automatically dispel anything else around them. Pretty sure Van and the researchers just found ways to manipulate Death mana that had the effects of absorbing energy, since it also works for physical attacks.
     
  18. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    I get your reasoning but I don't think that's how the author decided it works. I mean we can wait and see but it doesn't seem like the author went with that line of reasoning.
     
  19. spycho357

    spycho357 Well-Known Member

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  20. Eddy andres

    Eddy andres Well-Known Member

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