Discussion Racism in CN, KR & JP (Web) Novels

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by NoLongerTheSame, Dec 20, 2021.

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  1. NoLongerTheSame

    NoLongerTheSame Well-Known Member

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    Entirely subjective and based on my reading experience...

    I have read countless web novels - Chinese, Korean and Japanese - where racism has ruined the story for me. The frequency of racism seems to vary among the three in which Chinese and Korean authors are likely to be racist in their works than the Japanese ones. It's often this way: KR is racist to CN and JP (and other nationalities), CN is racist to KR and JP (and other nationalities), and JP is... well... I don't know. I very rarely encountered racist remarks in JP web novels; if there were, they must have been extremely subtle that I just glossed over them. It's like the JP authors have their own bubble where they just don't give an F about other nationalities. Nevertheless, the situation among the three where one derides the other is just an example of a pot calling the kettle black as evidenced by recent history. I wonder why this kind of hypocritical way of thinking continues. Maybe it's due to their older generation's "teachings", government propaganda, or media. Anyway, racism in novels SUCKS especially if it's obviously written to profit from the reader's consensus (CN web novels are written for CN readers, KR novels for Koreans, so on and so forth).

    Kill the Hero made me write this post...tsk, I thought the author's shitposting towards Japan was only a few chapters; but it wasn't. And the Russian sidekick keeps getting called "Spashiba" while the rest of the cast are called by their names or titles. Seriously, Mr. Author?
     
  2. Aachiin0914

    Aachiin0914 ☼Sunnyshies☼

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    You can't removed that "racism", except if you read a novel that did not involve Earth, in a sense. After all you can't change history. Racism is everywhere, so I think there's really nothing wrong for the authors to elevate their own country and downgrade other countries. After all, there is a thing called bias.

    And they have history of wars, and they are particularly sensitive about it, so you can't blame them.
     
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  3. Anonymous_Skylark

    Anonymous_Skylark Active Member

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    What does "Spashiba" mean? And it's not racism, it's xenophobia.
     
  4. Zeusomega

    Zeusomega M.D of Olympus Pvt Ltd. Seeking [Boltzmann brain]

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    At this point I'm not even bothered...

    From what I know from the manga it means thank you in Russian but roughly sounds same as Fuck u in Korean.

    Or the other way around.... it's been a while
     
  5. akki

    akki [Ani's C☕ffee-mate #3] [Shady Merchant]

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    I get what you’re saying but they ain’t writing history novels. It’s usually fantasy filled with fictional writing. When you’re making stuff up why bother dragging the past and shitting on other countries? It is possible to raise your country without being racist towards others~
     
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  6. Airlol

    Airlol Well-Known Member

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    Agree... Racism is make the novel became bad... Many novel I read that had racism been dropped.

    If I want to make a ranking of racist novel then I will say,

    1. Chinese
    2. American
    3. Koreans
    4. Japanese

    The Chinese novel that I read at least had 5/10 chance to found about racism. I know that China hate Japan for invaded their country at the WWII but if you read the history before, Chinese also invaded other countries. More like how many dynasty had rise and down did Chinese done.... and the most I hate about their racist is that in the novel I can see many evil characters that making very bad thing like killing, kidnapping, rape and many thing but the MC only think that is bad need to killing only but when it's about other countries killing them, is like killing family or very evil but if you count the number that been kill, the Evil characters of Chinese country is more than other countries. Not enough of that, the MC will humiliated other country.

    Korean also had racist but it more direct so I don't care much. At least their never try humiliated other countries. About Japan racist, is more cultures. Is like saying their food is the most delicious or the mindset that more good than other. Hey but who countryman will say that he/she country is bad? Unless that person is traitor. And the most important is that the Japan novel never try to humiliated other.

    This is just my opinion only so don't burn me for saying it. Lol. Also EN is not first language
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2021
  7. sweed

    sweed l.o.v.e.m.u.f.f.i.n.

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    True, true.

    1. Read a modern cultivation manhua and the US special ops team was depicted as violent retards. Then the MC went to "island country of Fu" and killed two "lowly vile" ninja clans for stealing a special rock from his country and then proceeds to humiliate their Mt. Fuji some more. Like, wtf man?! His own countrymen / enemies are doing the same to him yet he didn't eradicate their whole town.

    4. It's more of an exaggeration that Japanese is the best and everything else is not worthy of note. Whether it's food, katana or "modern knowledge" ( at least in isekai genre). But still strange how these characters were often only kids or people who died from overwork. :blobconfused:
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Aachiin0914

    Aachiin0914 ☼Sunnyshies☼

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    well, Chinese novels was written for chinese readers, hahaha...so don't really expect the authors to wrote something that could be accepted world wide. Authors wrote them so that the readers was able to sympathize with the character. After all, what authors writes has a truth in it. And if can't relate to it, then well, it's not their fault.

    And it not just history, bro. History shaped their countries. Esp, China...
    Also, do you you know about the tiktok about half-filina...she have a tattoo in her arm that looked like japanese flag in the past. When koreans saw them they abused her in the internet. Although she already apologize, saying she didn't know the history about kr and jp, it still became a big deal, to the point-- the filipinos raised Cancel Korean...

    Don't underestimate history. After all its the past...it shaped the future.
     
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  9. Dahna

    Dahna (-, – )…zzzZZZ

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    An author that has a racist mind, then you can always drop their works.

    You can't change how a country's media orientates morals, how people think about others, their belief, and what racist means in their minds.

    I don't think the author believes that their work is racist, though. Because everyone has reasons to hate others, and most people in this world can't learn how to forget the impact of history on them.
     
  10. NoLongerTheSame

    NoLongerTheSame Well-Known Member

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    CN, KR, and JP authors like to talk shit about the other when in fact one is just as bad as the other. I come from an SEA country that got fucked over by Western and Eastern countries but as far as I know, at least in my bubble, racism towards those countries isn't propagated.

    Nobody's underestimating history here though. Racism in web novels mostly happens because it's profitable. It's easier to do than "creative" writing because you literally just have to talk shit about another country. And talking shit about another country easily is one of the most convenient tools out there if you want your readers to have a common point of interest.

    Saying that I can't blame them because they have a history of wars. I don't agree. Let the past live in the past. It doesn't mean they have to forget what happened because history is a valuable teacher. What I'm saying is... why must those living in the present suffer from the mistakes of the dead from the past? Publicizing hate when your audience is at an age that is easily influenced doesn't help better the future.

    Huh? In these three countries, xenophobia and racism are closely intertwined. Country A literally thinks that it is superior - morally, culturally and what-not - than the other.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2021
  11. ShadowAscetic

    ShadowAscetic Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes it's not because of those but because of the environment or area where you live in... for example, my family and my neighbors has a big hatred toward particular tribe for generations so as a younger generation I subconsciously side with them and throwing hate speech towards the younger generations of that tribe. After all, the last tribal dispute between us was not long (90's) so the scar is quite deep. I think it's the same case with the racism(?) or hatred between CN, JP and KR people, their last war wasn't even centuries ago (around 50-70 years I think)
     
  12. Aachiin0914

    Aachiin0914 ☼Sunnyshies☼

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    Hahaha...I don't really understand, where it is profitable...Authors earn from their works because its good...

    I don't understand your point really...actually it would be better to just avoid "those" kinds of novels. Anyway, you can't change the novel anyways.
    But really, I don't think the authors biases ruined the novels for me. 学神在手,天下我有 (this is bl, btw)-- is a very racists novel. The mc destroyed the world, since only European people were left and he was the only Chinese. People abused him as Chinese and called him liar. Anyway, he just let the world destruction. There are also many scenes where there's China vs. America. And China is very elevated in this novel. It's the same author as FOD, and I think the reason why no one is picking it up because of this issue.

    I don't there's a problem. Maybe it's people's view. Or maybe there's a particular scene in the novel that hit you the most. But it's just a novel after all, and you're just reading. It's easy to avoid it.

    There are other good novels out there.
     
  13. NoLongerTheSame

    NoLongerTheSame Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... how do I say it... So, web novel authors rely on readers to earn obviously. These readers come from different walks of life but they must have, roughly, one thing in common that keeps them engaged. In this case, talking shit about other countries keep these readers engaged albeit distastefully. That's why racism in the web novel scene will never die out; it's because a lot of readers continue to "enjoy" it.

    It's not like I just drop whatever I'm reading in a heartbeat as soon as racist remarks appear in it. There's an acceptable degree and go beyond that, I'll yeet that read away. Lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2021
  14. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    More to the point, these attitudes are popular, and the people holding these attitudes often don't think of it as racist. The thing with racism is that too often we define it too narrowly so it's easy for people to convince themselves that their views aren't racist.
     
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  15. Nimroth

    Nimroth Someone

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    It doesn't help either that sometimes people also are quick to call things racist when it might not be, so you have a paradoxical situation where racism in a way is both applied too often and not often enough.
    People tend to have a somewhat warped idea of racism in general, so even someone that use it very broadly can have blind spots where they won't recognise when it applies to themselves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
  16. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, the entire way that we think about racism is wrong. Too often I see it vilified as the worst attitude a person can have; that there's nothing more awful than being racist. And this completely kills our ability to discuss racism.

    The reality is that racism exists in many different forms: there's the extreme racists who will go out of their way to physically attack people of certain groups, to more casual racists who disparage certain peoples, to people who constantly use broad stereotypes to define certain groups. One of the things that seems to be really misunderstood is that racism is not about intent; it's about attitude. How a particular person feels about a subject like a race of people, is not entirely within their control. So if we only vilify these attitudes, then it will only drive people who hold them into defending themselves. And that's how we wound up in a world where it's basically impossible to discuss racism. On the whole though, I'd say that false accusations of racism are less damaging.
     
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  17. Kaithar

    Kaithar Well-Known Member

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    The amount of unpleasant history and bad blood in the CJK area is staggering. I'm pretty sure that all three have, at some point, invaded and committed war crimes against the other two. A recent example would be Nanking, but I'm sure China's relation with the Korean War would throw up some reasons for hostility if I looked. Both Koreas are still mad at Japan for WW2 as a particular reason... Japan is mad at NK for threatening them, SK probably for the continued attempts to blame current Japan for WW2 Japan's actions, and at China for many reasons but particularly the nonsense China has been pulling over maritime claims in the area... You get the idea, someone knowledgeable could give better examples.

    They've been hating each other so long that it is part of the cultural identity and unlikely to go away... It's not as if the west isn't lacking in examples of it either, though they aren't as vicious and advertised. Scotland's dislike of the English, Ireland's dislike of the English, England's dislike of France, Germany and Spain... It's centuries of conflict soaked into the fabric of society. A more active example would be the partisanship of Republicans and Democrats, an ideological hatred between the two. Though, I think the best example I can give is the relationship between Jews and Muslims.

    So while I find the particularly intentional racism to be unpleasant, I don't think you can really remove all of, say, the Korean animosity towards Japanese characters or the Chinese nationalism without altering the cultural tone that makes them works of the current Korea and China respectively.
    Or to give another example, purging the traces of slavery and racism from a pre-emancipation American work would leave you a work that is less offensive to our modern ethics but which no longer belongs in the society of that era where it was originally conceived.

    *shrugs* Anthropology?
     
  18. lnv

    lnv ✪ Well-Known Hypocrite

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    I agree there is a ton of racism here and there in these manga/novels. JP tend to have less because government is sponsoring a lot of the industry to spread Japanese culture so they are viewed better around the world. So more than likely they try to avoid anything that can trigger a flag. That said, they still put themselves above say the people in an isekai as japanese things often being superior in pretty much everything. But that is what everyone does so shrug.

    I don't know about this one though... It is hard to call this one racist because it isn't like it is making the japanese evil. Just the organization itself is evil. So just because 1 of the enemies happens to be Japanese, and doing bad things doesn't make it racist.

    As for Spashiba, if you haven't realized, that guy is a comedy relief character. Most things he does is a joke. Even the word Spashiba as translators has a meaning in Korean as well. More then likely, the guy liked the word and decided to use it and call himself by it. (Aka, not his official name but his nickname). It is also easier to remember 1 word and how to pronounce it then learning multiple words. Hence why all he did was use that one word early on.
     
  19. Hazel00

    Hazel00 Highland Knight | From Karsuk

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    bro, honestly i think we SEA is built different. looking at history Indonesia got invaded by many countries, and Japan kills huge chunk of population. but looking at today, when people asked who is Indonesia best friend, there's many and not little who answer 'Japan'. and Many Indonesian live in Netherlands too.
    one of the reason for the hate is still going on is because they are so close to each other, there's many number of disputes like territory, mutual distrust, and tension going on even after WW2 especially because Japan in WW2 is the bad guy.
    From BBC World service poll the #1 JP haters is CN and followed by KR as #2
     
  20. NoLongerTheSame

    NoLongerTheSame Well-Known Member

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    The author literally painted the "Japanese" as terrible people through the representation of a couple of characters instead of the organization they belong to. Some chapters even went as far as to involve the JP gov't in an attempt to cover up a failed assassination. Why not just say that "this <person's name> is terrible blah blah" instead of "the Japanese this... the Japanese that...". Sure, the anti-japanese sentiments didn't come from the main characters but from the netizens, yet that doesn't make it any less racist though.

    As for comedic relief... the sidekick is Russian although bearing a Korean name, and he often says "Spashiba" at the start of a hunt. "Spashiba" also sounds like a cuss word in Korean. People found that funny that's why it became his nickname and continued to stick around. I didn't exactly find it racist, and I can't blame you to think I did (based on the context of my post). It's simply unpleasant that this guy kept getting called "Motherfucker" throughout the story instead of his real name.

    Quick question: How far have you read in the story?
     
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