Is there a genre or a trope that can never be salvaged by good writing? I see people say that it depends on how the story was executed that makes or break it. I read some novels not suited for my taste but then i wonder if there's something similar that was actually written better and maybe I am biased for not giving the theme/trope/genre a chance. TL;DR: Is good writting enough to make "any" kind of story good?
tbh dunno but this cat think it is possible to attract certain type of reader cuz to each own taste~ its like make correction on typical NTR so there more drama so the effect more devastating to point on tragedy level~ why you hurt me stuff~ write "good" require plenty of brain power which this cat kinda lack of~ is it Invisible Dragon good or bad? some say it masterpiece some say it utter trash but mostly agree they tear up from read it for whatever reason~ bya bya~
Harem and Ecchi. Worst yet, a combination of both. In the past I've read a few good works with those tags, like The World God Only Knows. But I've seen literally hundreds and most of them were a waste of time. So I can't be bothered to dig through a pile of shit to find good anymore. Harems tends to always have the same troupes, very Gary Stu kinda stories, the love interests are almost always entirely based on a single personality trait, they get all their character growth in their arc where they're introduced properly and for the rest of the series they're just canon fodder. And Ecchi just confused me why people like it. It's like porn but you know it'll never go anywhere. Why not literally just watch porn? I'll never understand why people like Ecchi. Like, if I'm watching an anime and get horny, I'll go watch a porn, then come back with post nut clarity and realize the show is meaninglessly trying to get me horny again for way too long and the story isn't progressing at all. It's like twitch thots honestly. Just fucking go watch porn.
some people like softcore stuff~ like mua~ porn is for fapping while ecchi for eye candy~ its like some people just enjoy host club? but not care about prostitution~ or striptease stuff but not the sex~ well not everyone get horny from ecchi maybe just drooling~
The problem with that question is, if a genre can't be saved by good writing then you could argue that it would be a genre that can't really have good writing in the first place, but truly trying to prove that would be trying to prove a negative. Even if 999999 out of 1000000 stories turn out ot be bad, that single exception that you might not even imagine possible would be enough proof that it could be done well, but to prove the opposite even if all 1000000 of the stories was bad it wouldn't be enough evidence. Overall though the idea that good writing can save anything is more a rule of thumb than an actual rule, and it will always heavily depend on personal taste. And just because something "could" be done well doesn't mean it is worth looking for if you have to read tons of crap to find it.
I mean... What you read depends on your taste. You don't need to read stuff that you dislike. As for genres and good writing... Some genres are more prone to being poorly written than others, but it's definitely possible for any genre to have good stories written on it, but... Well, if that genre isn't to your taste, then why bother? Just skip it~
No. Lots of well-written stories are hated because of their content. I will write about anything if the pay is good or the inspiration strikes.
I agree. But I speak more from another point of view. All the harem and ecchi are about the b00bs, panties and the girls' number. But I don't really want to see those, I have my own set, and I had enough of seeing these things, thank you. Rather, I'm embarrased that people are that prone to get into these ecchi accidents. Spoiler: I mean... *male charachter walks into the bathroom/changing room, there is already a girl there undressing. They stand in shock, the girl drops her remaining clothes* Me: I get that they are shy, but please at least scream immediately, throw some things beside your clothes/bathrobe/towel (every girl should learn to never abandone their defensive gears in panic). And the worst part is because they got peeped at they will start to consider those peepers as romantic interest. It may have been accidental, but I don't think that this man is worth it. In the future, even if you were to get married I can picture him getting into these kind of accidents. Yes, not his fault, but he's still an idiot for getting the rooms and times wrong all the time!! Unsalvagable troupes: reverse harem/polyandry & reverse rape (I understand gender equality, but I still feel like we're loosing in here ) tsundere X harem (I'm tired, you're tired of it, no amount of flashing can salvage this.) adultery & netorare (Complicated and hurtful, too much for my weak heart.) harem ending (personal grudge, don't mind it) naive protagonist X lucky protagonist (The audacity to flaunt our unluckiness and misery into our face!!) modern knowledge X loyal subordinates (Please stop! I pity the one who had actually had to invent that idea, you're just reaping everything from them!)
No, the issue is not the trope or genre being used, but how well it was used. Things becomes tropes and genres because they are sued enough, and they do not get used enough if they are bad/unappealing. That said there can be tropes and genres you do not like, and as a result good writing will not always lead to you liking them. But that is not the same as the story being bad. To much of the "it is bad" comments you see online are really "it does not meet my tastes" from people who do not understand the difference. Also, age restrictions/where the story can be sold. Ecchi can be marketed in a lot more areas/demographics then porn, especially in countries like Japan.
Good enough writing can make any genre compelling to read, but it isn't enough for everyone and to think so is naive. Think of it this way, what if the objectively best book ever written is a 3000 page treatise on the ins and outs of making fountain pen ink. The experience of reading it may well be super fun, but if you're not interested in the topic, then it's still going to be a very hard sell. Does this example seem overly absurd? I don't think so because a book like "Finnegan's Wake" is widely considered to be one of the pinnacles of English-language (hah!) literature but you'd never find me (or most people) reading it for very much the same reason. Personally, I'm always on the lookout for stories with good female characters so it's very unlikely for me to check out books that actively avoid them, like BL.
Abuse to love trope. Guardian-(grown up)child romances. Bratty ML and submissive FL. This one is too annoying to read. Teacher-student romances in modern settings (can make excuses for xianxia where they live for millennia)
harem. oh god I hate this together setting. like a perfectly good protagonist starts meeting hot women and like. ????? his whole personality changes. I don't understand???? he was so rational and smart. but then IQ goes Downhill. there are many others but I personally think that a clueless protagonist is also one. like it's funny and cute the first 20 chapters the it's boring and kinda dumb after that
Self proclaimed avant garde ground breaking experimental fiction. When asked, "why are there.. like 30 blank pages in the middle of the book..." reply, "it's called an artistic expression. Its to show how the chara-" *me walking out the door.
ah as long as there beamlight, steam, or any divine intervention to block the dangerous part all is good lololol
Harem, Xianxia, Wuxia, Xuanhuan, and Yaoi. For Yaoi, I will only read the ones which were recommended to me, because, let's be honest, the rot is real.
I think the amnesia trope always sucks no matter how good it is written just never liked it. i always feel that its so cheap tbh
Anything abuse toward children creeps me out, and i absolutely don’t think s€xual abuse/slavery is ok as a trope or an easy gimmick - Abuse, degradations of human dignity, animal abuse, are often treated way too lightly, without a care for consequences i like your question, but i admit it raises another one into me : basically it could come to a question of legitimate censorship - some subjects are so deranged that i not only wonder about why they exist, why they are translated and why some people find any interest in there Censorship and taboos are tough questions too, but that seriously is another tread so good writing ? I’m also exhausted with some stupid gimmick such as amnesia (try meeting someone truly suffering from it, it’s rather different from the general use) But I’d disagree with SovereignMeech, i think it has many way to be saved; maybe, by taking an angle (if you’re strict with the mundane « i remember nothing thing, i agree with you, it’s the most literal (plot) hole, you can find:/ but there are a few stories about real amnesia symptoms, and that’s already quite different (there are many kind of brain malfunctions too, it’s a pretty heavy subject in real life). The other way would be akin to how we actually remember everything but forget to recall memories, and truthfully also tell ourselves « stories « that we consider accurate memories, while they are not; So basically our brain is not great at recalling many things, in that aspect, you could consider it has amnesia as a function (it’s meant to be able to survive by adapting the ever new circumstances, school test did not exist at the time of our wild ancestors To that you can add : the brain doesn’t know what’s « real « , at the time of virtual reality, one should beware, that the only thing that makes some experience « real », is the richness of the experience- we don’t have a side brain for video games, if they truly were feeding our perceptions the same way as the real world … they simply would be as « real » - Now, it’s been used in science fiction decades ago, but it’s still fun : it’s natural to forget : what exactly do you remember ? So yes, good writing, by enriching the concept, and adding to it could just work fine - there should be quite a few exemple, i would think but amnesia is just a subject of like and dislike, it’s not something too deep either - it’s an intellectual dislike ? So what about what we usually don’t tolerate on an emotional level ? We’re not talking of dislike anymore, we’re talking about repulsion, disgust Out of the things i detest, i was very surprised, to see on extremely rare occasion sensible and humane approach that will let you make sense of what’s going on can save dreadful trope that go’s beyond what i can usually tolerate . (It’s still outside of what i would consider legitimate taboos (first paragraph) For exemple, i can’t say how much i dislike the banality of SM tropes. Why on earth would people have to wonder if they are a S or a M : the only answer for most of us should be neither i … but that’s not even mentioned as a possibility :/ - Generally talking many representations way too of intimacy are either abusive (nonono, yesyesyes ?) or passive (there’s an enduring vase in there) and that’s most often pushing it even further I hate to think of SM as anything near « normal » , hurting is not something biology programmed us to enjoy, except in the very specific case of revenge. Getting hurt, on the other side, should obviously be repulsive by nature : pain avoidance exist in any animal, should we be different ? You need serious trauma to lose the repulsion to any or both - And actually, that’s were « good writing makes a big difference : I don’t like that thematic, but i read one extraordinary manga about that once - and that’s all - It was a serie of slightly connected hort stories, obviously well written, and some had that thematic; It just made sense for some of the characters to endure or feel violent and unfair or to want to be punished for being « different « or for being responsible of an accident (i don’t recall) Godd writing, did make a show out of SM, it wasn’t « pretty « or a weird kink , it was painful and complicated. It was in a way relatable, not as a hype, by as a very unperfect way to struggle with oneself and to live on; Our world can be pretty corrosive and unfair, and not too understanding either … When i say good writing, i don’t just mention making sense, and defeating plot holes, but touching something of humanity with just the right amount, that’s two side of good narration While It’s possible to have some good story with good thinking about a subject like « amnesia « , it definitely not enough when you get around emotionally sensitive subjects - emotional intelligence becomes a must Some comics/manga/yaoi used to be like indie movies, there were some deep and profound artpieces in ther, and definitely, a lot of common trop, became not so common in the hand of those artist The same exist in litterature obviously, but web novels and Webtoon certainly suffers from their « ongoing » format ? (Like the everlasting tv series)