Discussion why do bl authors like using cheap troupes for drama?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by earlydiaries, Aug 26, 2022.

  1. earlydiaries

    earlydiaries Active Member

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    more than a discussion, this is more like a vent or a discussion for like-minded people. i’m not here to debate those who like or defend these troupes or way of writing. if you can like it, i can dislike it. :blobowoevil_horns:

    drama and tragedy are two genres that i’m very picky and critical about. i feel like whatever troupe or plot device an author uses for this part of their story can make or break the reader’s experience.

    more often than not, in bl, there are some common troupes that i hate with a passion and utterly detest to the point of genuinely judging the author sometimes.

    1) the “MC denies his feelings for LI (love interest) and fucks some other guy because he thinks that’ll help him” troupe. worse, if he enjoys it, the other party has a good time too, and it doesn’t get talked about. the MC doesn’t bring it up with whoever he’s involved with. he just fucking does it and goes.
    • the most useless and effortless cause for drama. no matter the characterization of a character, what is the point of a third party in the turning point of the relationship between the MC and the LI? this irks me even more because it’s often paired up with the LI getting into a shit situation while the MC is just having fun fucking some other guy. i can’t give names for novels i’ve read that have had this but i do notice it more in manhwa and manga. the worst offender yet is “the pest on my shoulder” where the LI is literally getting r*ped and sexually abused after being fucking human trafficked while the MC is fucking it up with his senior who he had wet dreams of. even more annoying how this senior apparently likes the LI’s higher-up and they’ve had a thing going on since before???? what was the reason for all the entanglement between these people?? how does it contribute to their development?
    • literally anything else can be a catalyst to make the MC realize his feelings but it had to be sex. really? does every MLM just think with his dick, is that it? MC couldn’t just envision himself doing it with someone else to test out how he feels, like a normal person? or tested if he’d want to do romantic things with LI? worse, if the MC is a grown ass adult. you don’t deserve that LI. i’m taking him away from you so he can get a better bf. :blobangery:
    • why aren’t they talking about it? there’s a thing i like to call “follow through” which is basically the character reacting after a situation and having that brought up later on in the story as a reference or to be talked about. it adds more life to characters and also helps with development. why aren’t they talking about something that could change or even slightly affect their relationship?
    2) rape or sexually abusing one of the main characters, usually applies to who is the “bottom.”
    • rape is not a joke. fictional or not, how you write about rape reflects your own views or how you subconsciously view it. your art is a part of you lol, you can’t be separated from your own work. if you can write rape just to have the development of the main couple move forward or for “suspense,” then you lack creativity and you need to re-evaluate your views on a situation that traumatizes people and leaves them scarred for life.
    • some authors even admit to adding something like this to make it “sexy” or for the sake of “smut” and that’s just fetishization at its best. men getting raped is sexy, is that it? as long as you see two men fucking, it’ll arouse you? consensual sex or not? i hope you never get raped then, because you won’t be thinking that way if you had the least bit of empathy or outright experienced it to know what it does to a person. maybe, use something else for conflict? there are so many other things you can write about. don’t be that person. i also hope you never have people think of you having sex like you’re an object or form of entertainment. it’s utterly dehumanizing. i’m WLW so i know. :blobsmile:
    3) third party who doesn’t even like the LI but just wants to get in between the MC and LI or piss LI off
    • more like that character wants to piss me off. please, for the love of god, anything but THIS troupe
    • how does that contribute to the plot? imagine reading something where the entire thing is just MC and LI have a thing, the third wheel interrupts, MC finally loses it, LI who started dating/fucking the third party gets back with MC, then the end. worse if the third party is not a human or has magic and manipulates the MC to cheat out of his will. you can do so much better.
    4) LI cheats but the MC has to die for it, LI gets another chance and is reborn, transmigrates, or time travels to be with MC as if he didn’t cheat. readers say it’s the best story they’ve ever read.
    • authors even justify the cheater’s actions by saying “it was one mistake.” hey, could you actually be a cheater in real life? :blobunsure: kidding. i don’t mind that because that’s the character of the cheater but it’s definitely annoying when this comes up and in the end the cheater doesn’t actually get retribution. worse if the MC welcomes him with open arms like a braindead fool.
    • worst troupe for tragedy because this is shallow at best. it’s more of a drama than a tragedy.
    i always think “if i wanted to see a telenovela in the form of a novel, i would have just went to see a telenovela.” it just feels like straight media troupes being projected onto lgbt media. i came here because i also didn’t like seeing that in BG! why the heck is it here too?!

    they feel so shallow and i feel like i’m being taken as a joke. it’s like they really thought i’d feel sad about a 24yo being in denial of his feelings for another 20+yo? when them sitting down to talk can actually resolve everything?

    is anyone else tired of these troupes? i just wish we had better dramas and tragedies. i want to actually cry because i felt struggle, conflict, and character growth, not because i got so angry from something that could be resolved if both characters just communicated or acted like their age. :blobconfounded:

    please feel free to give your reactions to the troupes too and ignore any comments not related to this post or comments meant to get attention!! this post is for complaining about particular troupes or generally cheap drama troupes in bl. if you like whatever troupe is mentioned in my post or in the replies, i didn’t ask. i really don’t care about your input because this post is not for you. please read things before you comment. we are having a discussion here without attacking, bullying, or harassing anyone so we expect the same respectful behavior from other commenters. no hard feelings if you get ignored or don’t get the reply you expected because i already specified who and what this discussion is for. thanks!

     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
  2. Agentt

    Agentt Loves cats and pats and my wife

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    Mainly because every BL/GL writer wants to escape one trope.


    Yes, there is one trope which calls to them, whispers in their ears. It gives them nightmares.

    In order to shoo away that trope, they use these cheap tropes you mentioned.


    What is that one fearsome trope you ask?
    It is the trope of, "I am gay, and you are the only other gay person here, so we don't have any other options."
     
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  3. earlydiaries

    earlydiaries Active Member

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    :blobnobully: disclaimer: i’m not arguing with you, but i’m questioning writers who do participate in that act of escaping that troupe you mentioned!!

    eughh writers who do that are basically circling back to that troupe they so dearly try to escape though. they can get creative with more conflict from the environment or other relationships? family, friends, school, work? idk?? as a writer, it’s no excuse. i feel like it’s not a lot to ask for them to write something else and have more meaningful conflict :bloborz:

    there are characters who could be given more background or use in the plot or relationships of either main characters (MC or ML, maybe even both). say, if they’re going to have a third party, then let it be a well-written villain who isn’t present just to mess around but someone with an actual agenda or villain origin story™️ or a best friend who actually has deep feelings for the MC/LI, y’know? i’d be less mad about someone who’s actually relevant and has a reason for existing in the story
     
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  4. Shio

    Shio Moderator Staff Member

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    technically.

    Technically speaking, k. It's not BL. Most female oriented romance are like that. Why? I got no idea.
    The same way I have no idea why NTR and rape made up for 70% of h doujins made (the rest are mainly incest or other fetish) either.

    Those trope are kind of like a checklist the author wants to complete, I guess. Maybe so people could say, "XXX and xxx happens to MC, but ML still love him" or vice versa or other reasons. I don't know.
     
  5. Ahmya

    Ahmya mammiyaah~

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    I havent read a novel that follow this trope before but i read soooooooooo many japanese mangas following that. Tbh, it never really bothered me but there was this one manga tho that had a similar trope to that and i was sooooo piss!!! I was so mad cause others were still saying its sooo good, like wtttfff!! Its not gooooood!!!!! I was questioning the comment section’s insanity like w-w-whaaattt!!! They like this stuff...

    that is the worse trope ever.... i dont think ever read something like that tho, i have seen it multiple times in staright novels/ manhwas....

    Also im curious what you are even reading, it sounds so angsty and fucked up af....ヽ(;▽;)
     
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  6. earlydiaries

    earlydiaries Active Member

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    (my original reply was deleted by accident because it looked like duplicate posts but my page just didn’t refresh :’D)

    on the premise of the history of bl and its relationship with women, i can agree partially with that but i think it’s more accurate to categorize bl as something that people attracted to men but also negatively affected by the aftereffects of a patriarchal society consume and seek refuge in. this is a huge reason if not the biggest reason why women went into bl in the beginning anddd my reasoning for this can get long so i’ll stop there (i just wanted to clarify my take on that so you’d know why i don’t fully agree sjdjs but i understand what you mean). you’re definitely right about most female-oriented romance being like that though.

    same! it’s so strange to see people eating that up like it doesn’t bother them at all. even if it’s fiction, it’s still uncomfortable to see or imagine while reading, right? is it just me or sumn? it’s quite telling too when a particular population consumes that like crazy. and, by telling, i mean scary because we don’t know how these people bring that stuff into reality and how they behave around people who’re the object of that content.

    i wouldn’t actually be surprised if it really was a checklist. kind of like essentials to a novel/manga/manhwa/manhua i guess lmao. a passing rite, even. i think you actually cracked the code though?! maybe it just didn’t hit me because i don’t think that way (+ my belief that people who make you go through that only to use it as “proof of their uNdyIng love” is complete bs and does not make a good partner).

    unconditional love. an eternal love that exists in spite of everything. isn’t that the point of the most prominent female-oriented romance genres shoujo and josei (+ their kr&cn counterparts)? i think you actually got it!

    if i recall correctly, novels do this in a different way. kind of like dating another man instead of just fucking. the troupe i mention does apply more to manga & manhwa. now that i think about it, the fact that this happens with visuals most likely because the effect will be better when seen than just read pisses me off. it’s like they want to anger readers to death with it!!! i’m not crying because he cheated, author!! i’ll be yelling because what is he doing?! comments like that also confuse me so much, it’s almost like the feeling of being the only sober person in a party lolol. i feel you so much. that’s exactly how i feel too when i see troupes like this used and readers praise it like it’s a masterpiece. i don’t blame the readers but also that novel/manga/manhwa is bad!! it’s really bad!! how did you enjoy that?? sighhh

    it’s mostly in wife/husband chasing crematorium novels. the physical cheating part is a bit more rare i guess? but emotional cheating does happen, and that’s still cheating so!! f whichever character does that!!!

    i unfortunately forgot the titles of what i’ve been reading because i’m currently just reading whatever i can find while waiting for my reading list novels to be fully translated (i’m too dumb to enjoy mtl) and i’ve forgotten them to cope but i’m always in the romance tag, which is mainly why i’m pissed and complaining about all this. i came for a good time!! even if it has a drama or tragedy, at least make it worthwhile yknow!!
     
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  7. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    hey ntr is good! it is fun to break or stain something! make them cry! broke their mind! corrupt their mind!
    muahahaha.png
    lol~
    please differentiate fiction and reality and if you can't just stay away~
    poor little kitty
    19642.png
    drama at it core similar to romance easy to enter but hard to execute so just use cheap way~ they kinda compliant each other because of most reader like to see struggle~ romance need drama for that~
    actually it spread over all genre~ cheap device for drama~

    example on NTR is blackmail it can be good excuse but most story just feel dumb and dumber~ another one is hypnotize ~

    anyway~ mainly in this car honest opinion~ mainly because of author suck~ maybe because of lack of experience and or skill so just use cheap way~

    btw there one yandere ntr doujin this cat like lately~ about MC reincarnated as otome game villain trying to break engagement with Princess so because of she fell in love with an NPC~ breaking MC kinda fun to see~ this cat laugh cuz plot twists~
     
  8. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    you can dislike this cat can like
    you don't wanna listen this cat can keep babbling
     
  9. baka8roukanako

    baka8roukanako Well-Known Member

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    Because they either they have no editors or they specifically make the kind of content that will sell.
     
  10. Kadmos1

    Kadmos1 Well-Known Member

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    Heck, such tropes are even occasional in harem stories.
     
  11. earlydiaries

    earlydiaries Active Member

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    i meeean, everyone can guess that that probably applies to most writers, but as you write, you also eventually grow out of things and using cheap drama troupes consciously is one of those things. there comes a point where you’d want to break away from the sheer monotony of doing what everyone does and wanting to grow on the other hand. i’m sure they know when something they utilize in their writing is cheap or creative and meaningful, so why keep doing that? anyway, my post right there doesn’t require a logical answer. it’s not a serious post so you don’t have to think too hard to make a logical answer, don’t worry! thanks for taking it seriously though. i was just looking for people to complain with :blob_grin:

    oooof yea i know, that’s why i stay away from it. i don’t hate or dislike it but i know a lot of things about it won’t be my cup of tea haha! :blobsweat_2: i’m more at bl (and shoujo/josei) so i’m mainly talking about that