LCD Death Mage

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by lygarx, May 21, 2017.

  1. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    Maybe if it was just throw them away, but he specifically said they need to have their souls thrown into his machine, like he doesn't want anyone else reviewing their data.
     
  2. tirirism

    tirirism He who dealt it

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    I'm playing God of War 2018 right now. I really think Roddy and Alda would benefit from a healthy dose of Kratos.
     
  3. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    I suppose it's just a matter of interpretation then. I never feel like Rod believes he might be held accountable for his actions, so that just doesn't click with me.
     
  4. Chuuni001

    Chuuni001 Well-Known Member

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    He didn't think he would be held accountable until the moment he cannot purge Lambda's reincarnation cycle from his system.
     
  5. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    He can't be held accountable by anyone he has leverage over, but there are Gods that don't subscribe to his services, and we know how weak he is to pain. A stubbed toe left him in the fetal position for much of a day, which is why he's been bluffing around Alda lately but ultimately giving in to all his demands.
     
  6. ssj4maiko

    ssj4maiko Welcome Back Sadpanda!

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    Someone running Rust on Windows trying to compare his code with a fictional God that essentially created a super effective system that in analogy could be more comparable with Assembly rather than some high level language.

    That's right, Rod is more of a Chad that can code shit straight in machine language than some lowly mortal than can only do some code in Windows and thinks he is the greatest shit.
    ---------------
    The point here is that Rod had a system running flawlessly under the common sense of things, since having an entity capable of breaking souls that were supposed to be unbreakable is not something common.

    In an analogy, what would you do with your Rust program running on Windows if the servers are suddenly struck down by a meteorite rain?

    What sort of solution can you program if an EMP wave suddenly fries every electronic it reaches?

    This reminds me of the iOS7 waterproof prank, that explained itself as "the code detects the water, and cuts the battery to avoid short circuit", and so lots of people started dropping their iphones on water. Fun times.



    If you are a programmer, you should understand that the advantage of high level languages is how versatile they are, however, in exchange, you lose performance.

    As example, this is more prominent in the past when they had low amount of space and limited processing power (mainly in consoles), the executable file would be tweaked straight in Assembly, to remove remove as much baggage as possible under the limited environment. Those programmers were very creative and much more impressive than current day programmers than can just throw a 2D Platform Game with a couple levels that weights 8GB and requires 8 cores and some high level GPU to run.

    So yeah, I know you want to just do a shitshow, but at least you have to recognize that your comparison doesn't make much sense for a celestial being that can do stuff beyond what humans are capable of understanding.

    Have you checked Quantum Processors, they don't even work the same way as our normal ones do, so trying to replicate the same thing won't work at all on those. That's how different things are, but sure, it's very easy to make fun of things when you are ignorant of how limited your knowledge is.
     
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  7. Overlord2019

    Overlord2019 Well-Known Member

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    That's a serious logic problem. Alda and his crew set up the dungeon precisely to demonize Van's allies, and Van himself, so the Blades would see them as unflinchingly evil and attack on sight, without attempted dialogue or compromise.

    It makes no sense to throw Randolph in the mix if they don't want him attacked too.

    As for Rod's "flawless" system, going by what we've seen, it seems to be composed entirely of "spaghetti code" so named because a flow-chart based on it looks like a bowl of spaghetti. He apparently put it all together without any plans or preparation, and whenever he adds new worlds, he just dumps more spaghetti on his plate.

    He only looks competent because he's spent billions of years working the system and knows where all the sticking points are..

    He pointedly cannot update or upgrade his system, and he'd wreck everything if he tried.

    So he just manually adjusts every error he comes across. But now, thanks to his own meddling, it's too much for him.

    His initial plan of "training" the Bravers on Origin also makes a certain amount of sense, but he screwed himself over through his arrogance, apathy, and laziness.
     
  8. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately there is a lot about Rodcorte and his system we don't entirely know.
    Mostly due to his own laziness aking it such that he'll do seemingly anything to avoid taking responsability and doing the bare minimum to solve a problem.

    Remember his solution to forgetting to give Van his blessing or even a fortune was to just write him off and settle for the remaining 100 reincarnators (Or was it 99? I forget if it was 100 with or without Van).

    Also when Alda, against his better judgement, bring a companion of Heinz to Rodcorte because his soul nearly got destroyed ... his solution is to just fill the gaps with some of that Demon King soul he just had laying around.


    The fact he CAN repair a soul means he absolutely has some knowledge of the soul and likely have more than anyone else in Alda's faction. But considering the only life attribute gods they have and those recruited to replace Vida that's not saying much. Alda's side is so ignorant about souls that the storm guy thought it would be a good idea to merge his soul with a reincarnator's without making sure their personalities matched and it was more just a sloppy possession than anything.

    Point is we don't have a lot of samples for comparison in regards to soul expertise. If you cound Gudu we have ... maybe 4 or 5 total and that's me making a few assumptions. So it's hard to really gauge his overall competency ... but we can say he has some skill.

    As for his system the fact it can't handle souls being destroyed is a weakness ... but considering Gudu is the first we know of that could do it then it's not strange he didn't account for it.

    IT's a flaw in the system, but only in hindsight. Prior to Gudu appearing such a thing wasn't a concern and it's been established Rodcorte is terribly lazy and only does the bare minimum. So it's very in character for him to not account for permanately lost souls as he likely considered it such an unlikely event that even if it did happen it would be easier to deal with it at the time than to design his system to account for it.

    As for Vida's system it's absolutely inferior to Rodcorte's but it doesn't really need to rival his anyway. As long as she can keep her own world from dying out it's good enough and her cycle was already relately functional despite her being sealed not long after she made it. So even if she's inferior to Rodcorte in regards to reincarnation she's harder working than he is and would likely manage to make a system good enough to manage her own world if given enough time. Van's apperance only made her job even easier as he's able to directly manipulate death itself.

    With him and Vida managing the cycle it's achieved pretty much perfection thanks to the complementary effect of their powers.
     
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  9. The Godly Aeolus

    The Godly Aeolus Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing how much you can achieve when you actually give a crap, ain't it.
     
  10. Donce

    Donce Well-Known Member

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    Its common, not rare. Every time local god wants to take mortal soul and make into heroic spirit or some god, Rod system would produce same error if god did not informed Rod about it before doing it. God informs Rod and Rod removes soul from system before it dead. And do it manually every time from start of his system.

    P.S. just to clarify. Computer understands only one language: machine code. Computer don't understand nor C, Rust, Java, Python and other languages. Programmer like writer write a book using his programming language. In case of compiling languages like C or Rust, programmer will give his book to translator (compiler) and translator will translate it to book made from machine code. Users get translated book and run it on they computers. In case of interpreted language, every user will need to have translator in they computer. This translator would translate book written in Python or part of it to machine code and give it to computer and do it every time software is run.
     
  11. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    It's not a fault it's a feature, like the narration points out, it's one of those bosses that beats you but you don't "die" the game just keeps going. It's like the Superman "you can't save everyone" Heinz is supposed to learn that there are always beings stronger out there.
    Pretty sure other gods can break souls by accident, Van has run across several problems that would have shattered a normal soul, like talking directly to a Greater God. All of Thunder Cloud's minions also did severe soul damage to the bandits and adventurers they were possessing too, force enough power through a mortal and they will break.
     
  12. Eddy andres

    Eddy andres Well-Known Member

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    I think of robocte as google (or meta, or windows, it is valid for most of today's large companies), only less evil or halfway (once again valid for most), its service is not perfect at all, It even has very serious defects that could be solved, but the average consumer either takes it for granted or does not need it, and in the case of the death mage, the cases where they are very rare and sometimes even robcorte intervenes (such as removing beforehand souls that alda seeks to turn into gods), causing the problem to be those who want a better experience or those who are more specialized, those are the ones who seek alternatives and the big problem with robcorte is that it does not provide them. but overall, making this clear, I would say that what makes robcorte truly bad is all of the above together with the fact that everything else has no positive side, its lousy customer service (even opposite beings like vida and alda, anarchists like zuruwarn or idiots like asagi agree that he is an idiot) it is not important, the problem is his handling of information and how he would throw it overboard if necessary and how he is not prepared for large-scale personalized services or at specific problems in general. Whatever the capacity of robcorte, its service is not worth it, it pays more to risk a few years of half-dead people or living zombies while you copy some system from a world outside of robcorte to work with it.

    off topic, I asked myself a question, how do you think Vandeliu would be if the storm of tyranny had not failed the divine message and they had found it? I imagine him dressing like some kind of crime boss covered in jewels, but in reality he is a bread of God who offers health services in the slums and red neighborhoods and with what he earns from them he gives to the temple and the orphanages, although he always has problems for being a priest of life (who in public gets along badly with the party but who treats them like their gods in private) and for his frequent "adventures" women adventurers, ex-adventurers and titans without discriminating


    Although a scenario that I have a hard time imagining would be if he was adopted in the 5-color sheets, ironically I feel that it would be like a version of Edgar, the member who has earned his personal death for his comments, only worse.
     
  13. Donce

    Donce Well-Known Member

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    You forgot god of magic. He is now with Vida and can help to perfect reincarnation system too. Other major gods will join too.
     
  14. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    iirc there was a scene where Alda had to reject doing something about him after consideration because he felt other worlds would step in to free Rodcorte. That implies to me that those same gods would go to similar lengths to rescue him unless his captor or whatever was like Guduranis level strong.

    I don't think Randolf was included with any more malice in mind than Guduranis's gen one monsters that went extinct because they had no internal organs or anything to actually keep them alive. Pitting Heinz's party against Legion was for them to learn ways to fight it, but not every opponent needs to be the same thing. There were also eventual plans to have them fight against Guduranis, a situation they absolutely did not think would be necessary.

    Yeah he knows more about the soul than anyone in Alda's faction. That's why they brought Edgar to him. But then he just went "Eh fuck it, I'll superglue demon king bits to him, what's the worst that could happen?"

    And yeah, that's the thing. Vida's system is worse than Rod's, but that's fine, because it's as good as it needs to be. That is a perfectly legitimate engineering goal in its own right: Don't overcomplicate, and if it works, great. Her system needs constant maintenance to keep working while Rod's seems largely autonomous except in the extremely rare cases where something goes wrong like the apocalypse or Vandalieu but, well, so what? It's obviously not such a burden that they can't do it and the small scale nature of what they have means it's much easier to hand it off to "friendly" pantheons to reduce reliance on Rod.

    Hmm. I'd hesitate to use the word break in the same sense as what Van does. We've seen souls damaged and thus lose what makes them individually identifiable but the story has made sure to keep the soul breaking power as unique as possible. Even the cannibal god didn't actually consume souls, it just subjugated them.

    Like if they had found him before Darcia got burned or? He'd probably be wayyyy weaker than he is now since I doubt they'd just throw him at rank 10 vampire nobles when he's two years old and whatnot.
     
  15. Donce

    Donce Well-Known Member

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    What drugs do you use? I hope you did not started to use intravenous drugs. You have strong delusions.
    Assembly? Only insane programmer would use this stone age relic today. Most who needs hardware programming would use C, others would go for C++ and some may even try Rust. But not Assembly. No one sane would do it, because it is crap.

    -------------------------------------

    I don't think novel author thought a lot before introducing Rod system. Author just put anything what fit moment of novel it was mentioned and got something hardly logical. Because Rod is super lazy, he even put DK soul fragments to soul of mortal to go easy path, his system will not be any better. He must have went easiest path possible while creating his system. Such thing can't be flawless and perfect. It can only be one big BUG.
     
  16. Kaithar

    Kaithar Well-Known Member

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    *sigh* since this is still going on, I'll throw a few points out there...

    This seems to be a fundamentally backwards view since it ignores the added problems from his system. Specifically, his system effectively ties worlds together so that you now have multiple worlds that can be taken out by a single world having a problem. A problem in Lambda (Van) lead to him trying to cut off Origin and Earth as collateral damage. That is a problem. The system also links soul supplies between worlds, and I'm beginning to doubt that Rod actually knows how to make souls... it seems more plausible that he's actually hoovering up newly born souls from the worlds instead.

    Alda opposes it because he's the personification of Law, he exists to enforce his interpretation of the rules and resist changes.

    Oh heck no, that doesn't make him a specialist... by that argument we'd have to claim Alda is a specialist in Law and Fate, and he's demonstrated an impressive level of failure to properly demonstrate understanding of either domain. A divine authority should never be construed to mean omnisence or omnipotence in that domain unless explicitly stated to be such. A domain is the scope of their power and authority, nothing more and nothing less.

    Oldest, yes... if Earth is our Earth or close then he's been running this system for many billions of years. Most powerful? Not even close.
    Rod seems powerful because he's bluffing and doing what all the gods do, staying safely in his own divine realm. He's wasn't a god of any of the three worlds so the native gods didn't have power over him in the same way he doesn't have any real power over them. His main advantage is that he doesn't seem to need worship to gain power, but by the same token he doesn't seem to gain power very fast. Remember this mess started because he couldn't scrap together enough power to give someone a decent blessing.

    Something that will become abundantly clear in later chapters is that Alda has practically no power over non-native gods and a lot of power over native ones. Meanwhile Rod has been terrified of Guru and Van because once they became threats they more than enough power to kill him. Power is situational, Rod simply avoids fights where he doesn't hold all the advantages. This stuff will become relevant once the gods actually start fighting each other and we can see how the dynamics work on an uneven playing field.

    It's worse, really... he seems to have a limited pool of souls, his system just doesn't have any kind of retry or recovery. His system must possess a "here's the next soul" function to assign souls to new bodies. Instead I'm pretty sure he explained that if it fails for any reason, whether that's a faulty soul or a gap in the line, it just... gives up. Then a recently freed soul ends up hopping in and there's now likely a new missing soul in the line to generate a new error. Literally no tolerance for the unexpected.

    See, the point is that when we write software we expect it to fail somehow. We'd be surprised if it never failed. Instead we build error handling, we try to predict what could go wrong, we write robust code. Manual intervention is the last thing you want a system to need so you try to make need that as little as possible. At the very least, we try to write code such that when it fails spectacularly it has some way to recover with as little tampering as possible. Your computer normally doesn't require you to go in and modify system files every time you don't shut it down properly, that is how recovery is meant to work.

    Power level has been mentioned tangentially. The soul has a solid foundation core, power gained during life is build on top of that foundation. Rod's system cleans all that power gain off to get the base core back for the next life. That means beings can only hope to ascend with the power they've gained during a single life, hence why souls are generally elevated to heroic gods or spirits only with help and normally can't get there themselves.
    If, instead, the system allowed more of that power to carry over to the next life then the overall power of souls would increase over time. It would be like being born with a free level, skill or something. Of course that's a problem if you want to keep a world's souls flowing through a reincarnation cycle. It's also a problem if you're cycling souls between worlds where the systems aren't the same.
    At a very pervasive level, Rod's system is designed such that it starves worlds of potential high quality souls to elevate. Rod wants to maximise quantity over quality, generic over exceptional.

    I thought Van's soul very much wasn't locked to just one world. If I remember, Rod gunked the Champion fragments together and threw that soul back into his pool so it could cycle everywhere but Lambda... it was a rather unremarkable soul until Rod painted a giant sign on it.

    And this is what we call a business monopoly... and you know how those go, right? Rod's not the best at it... he's not even competent and he's had billions of years to learn. There's no competition because we're viewing from inside Rod's exclusive deal worlds, we have no comparisons from systems operated by outsiders because that defeats the MO of a monopoly. "Don't try to be the best, try to be the only."

    Wrong on so many levels. A system that didn't pop up an error as an error is a fault system. We want systems to repair or recover themselves when possible, and we try to think up a many failure modes as possible during design, but when a problem occurs and it gets automatically fixed we also want it to be logged and notified appropriately.
    When your storage array detects and repairs a corrupted block we want that to happen as automatically and transparently as possible. We also want to make sure someone knows about it if happens more than a certain amount because it happening occasionally isn't a disaster but it happening constantly might mean your array is about to fail horribly. We want our routers to automatically send packets over alternate links when something fails, recalculating routing tables if necessary... we also want everyone in charge of that network to know right away that something failed, even it immediately comes back.

    A system that requires human intervention for every error message either lacks the appropriate recovery mechanics for known and predictable errors, or lacks any kind of oversight for the recovery mechanics it does have. Neither are signs of a health design.

    Rod's system is what we'd charitably call a "Minimal Viable Product"... it does the absolute bare minimum to get the job done, it has no flexibility, and it functions under the assumption that it will only be used in the precise way expected and intended. When we're feeling less charitable it might be called a "charged-for beta test" or "kludged together with duct tape and prayers".

    Actually that's not weird scenario at all. A program should always validate that an input is something it understands and treat everything else as invalid. Adding a new language would give it input that isn't understood, so it should gracefully reject it as such. That's the absolute basics of input sanitisation... trust nothing, make no assumptions, plan for hostile conditions.

    We handle these kinds of situations on a regular basis, whether it's numeric expressions (does your code handle 0xFF? XFF? #FF? FFh? I think I've seen formats like 16_FF and 16bFF in use too...), or date formats (have you any idea how many ways there are to write the date and time?) ... or, actual language representations (we still actually have 7bit ascii, 8bit ascii, utf-8, utf-16, and utf-32 in common use, even without discussing codepages for the extended area of 8bit, the very different encoding previously used by cjk languages, and equivalent codepoints and combining codepoints in unicode). If your code couldn't tell the difference between "this is a number I understand" and "I don't know what this is", and then handle that correctly, you wouldn't pass any programming class in existence.

    This whole post is cringe, but the beginning especially so.
    Fyi: Assembly and machine language aren't the same thing.
    Fyi: Coding stuff in Assembly is a TERRIBLE idea for a ludicrous number of reasons you'd know if you had the ability to actually work at that level.
    Fyi: People work in Assembly language because they have to, not because it's advisable. The entire reason we have languages other than Assembly are because the experts in the field fully understood the limitations of not having abstraction.
    Fyi: Rust is a high level language ffs. Rust is barely above C in terms of abstraction layer, it's not even as high level as C++. Wanna argue? Learn Rust's inheritance model. Learn its Garbage Collection and memory management model. Learn its coercion model. I'm sure Rust devs see the pattern I'm trying to hint at. Rust might run on windows, and quite well at that, but it is a systems language... it's good for kernels, it runs on embedded and bare metal environments, it runs on the WASM virtual machine.
    Fyi: Real experts will all tell you that they prefer to use the best tool for the job, just because someone can build process automation and digital logic out of a box of relays and 74xx TTL doesn't mean that the result is better than someone with a PLC block and a laptop.

    Machinists will use a C&C tool even if they're "chads that can make chips on a hand lathe"... Only an idiot attempts to use the same tool to solve every problem, and they become noticeable real quick when they try to hammer in a screw.

    I regret to say that this is very much the perfect example of why he doesn't have as much knowledge as he claims. Van reconstructed his soul (removing some of the "unremovable" curse in the process), the status gods are constantly analysing and reshaping souls to confer skills and classes on people, plenty of senior gods are happily able to create subordinate gods and soul imbued equipment using chunks of their own souls, Alda's side has demonstrated some ability to repair non-catastrophic damage to souls given time.
    Rod's work, on the other hand... honestly, "epic failure" doesn't even begin to cover his repair attempts. Van's soul is a complete mess because of Rod's shoddy work and this latest repair... ooooh boy, we'll want popcorn when that one gets going.

    Damage... burn out... various other such... but never break. There's always an intact soul, even if it's only good for a small plant or mouse.

    That he even considered it pretty much proves he doesn't know what he's actually doing.
     
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  17. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Rod is a lot more powerful than Guduranis, actually, but it's a totally meaningless statement because he doesn't know how to fight. He'd lose to a declawed kitten in a 1v1.
     
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  18. ZeroDelta

    ZeroDelta Well-Known Member

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  19. Eddy andres

    Eddy andres Well-Known Member

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    congratulations fidirg, you evolved from being bullied to being quiet in the classroom, insults have no effect thanks to your self-awareness and your 5-barrel black hole machine gun.
     
  20. Tarrian

    Tarrian Well-Known Member

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    Finally, the good stuff. Almost missed it.