Discussion WuxiaWorld's Imploding

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by GDLiZy, Nov 23, 2022.

  1. TamaSaga

    TamaSaga Well-Known Member

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    The notice states that WW is doing away with ads. And considering that I need to wait weekly for my chapters, I don't actually see a problem waiting 24 hours. I just read other stuff.

    The fact that you are arguing about the nuances of free is silly
     
  2. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    The difference is mainly when trying to read/watch something long from scratch.

    If you wanna watch One Piece in Crunchyroll, you can watch from episode 1-919 without needing to wait anything. You just sit down and watch... Yeah, sure, there are ads, but that's it.

    Comparatively, if you wanna read something with daily unlocks on Wuxiaworld that has 1000 chapters, that will take you... 3 years or something? I dunno how the karma system works though, so I dunno how much it accelerates the process.

    The point of the argument though, is that Crunchyroll allows you to sit down and watch the series you want for as many episodes as you want without any real limitation, while Wuxiaworld is putting a hard limit on how much you can read per day, which makes the models vastly different.

    I'm not gonna say one is necessarily better than the other, because some people really really hate ads (I personally don't), and an ad-free model to them might be preferred, but I'm definitely gonna say it doesn't make much sense to compare both models as if they were equivalent in "dropping the freeloaders", like you said, because Crunchyroll absolutely did not do that. As long as you're willing to watch the ads, you can watch all your 919 One Piece episodes without being forced to wait anything in-between episodes... Aside from obvious necessary breaks, like bathroom and sleeping, of course.

    Essentially, the problem isn't for series that you're caught up to, and just want to read the next chapter, as in both sites there isn't much of a problem for the free viewer/reader in this case. The difference is for long series that you wanna start reading/watching. On those, the model differences are really highlighted.
     
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  3. TamaSaga

    TamaSaga Well-Known Member

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    It'd actually take 3 months. You get enough karma for 10 chapters plus 2 free unlocks. And if you want to argue that CR did not drop the freeloaders, then using the same definition, neither did WW.

    Still, haven't you heard of the phrase, "too much of a good thing"? Assuming standard length and no sleep, you're looking at 2 weeks of binge watching 60 episodes a day for 900 episodes.
     
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  4. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    I'm saying that they're fundamentally different models not worth comparing on the matter of how accessible they are to the free user. One model makes you read very slowly (12 chapters per day, which is like... 1h of reading or something? 2h maybe? I'm not sure. What is the average wordcount of a Wuxiaworld chapter? My googling told me that the average reading speed is 250 words/minute, so you should read 15000 words per hour on average... Assuming 2000 words/chapter, that's 1h and 36min of reading daily), while the other lets you watch as much as you want.

    They different at their very core. One is limiting you with time, the other is forcing you to watch ads. They're completely different in how they handle the free user.

    If we want to compare the models on how easy it is to use the website as a free user, then Crunchyroll absolutely stomps Wuxiaworld, but if we wanna compare the models on user experience, then Wuxiaworld wins, because it's ad-free, while Crunchyroll forces you to watch ads.

    It's not worth comparing. They're different at their core. The comparison plain and simply doesn't make sense. It's like trying to compare Elden Ring and Fifa. They have nothing in common other than being games.
    Being able to spend 12h bingeing an anime during the weekend is certainly nice.

    Even during weekdays, assuming your schedule isn't too packed (as in, if you're someone who doesn't have many responsibilities other than work/school), it shouldn't be hard to watch 4h/day.

    I'm not saying you should binge read One Piece in 2 weeks. I'm saying Crunchyroll lets you watch as much free content as you want in a given day, while Wuxiaworld actively limits you heavily.

    They're different models and are not worth comparing. One limits you, the other forces you to watch ads. They work in fundamentally different ways.

    A much better comparison would be with stuff like Tapas, Tappytoon or Lezhin, with their coin system and the like. Those are all models that limit how much you can view per day, and all of them are successful without making life easy for the free reader.

    ... And I dunno about Tapas and Tappytoon, but I know Lezhin's model gives you a lot less Free chapters than Wuxiaworld is giving, so in that sense, Wuxiaworld's system isn't that bad for free users.

    So like... The comparison with Crunchyroll simply doesn't work. The sites work on fundamentally different models. Just compare it to other sites that actually use similar models to Wuxiaworld instead. There are plenty to choose from.
     
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  5. kaloo

    kaloo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm a paid user on the site and I just will never recommend it to anyone going forward. They had a lot of good will from it being Ren's Wordpress site posting Coiling Dragon, but the site has been on a steady decline for years between licensing issues and the shift to being a legitimate business. And as they've shifted to being a legitimate business instead of enthusiasts I feel less like I need to be a supportive fan.

    Even if I want to continue supporting them... If I want to read a KR novel they translated a couple years ago it's just gone. If I, a paying user, want to read it I have to go to some aggregator. (Praise the Orc for example) They're re-releasing some of them now, but I can always just go read it, in full, for free, with zero inconvenience.
     
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  6. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    Whether it’s stacking unlocks or a shortened wait time or whatever they land on, I think it’s undeniable that Wuxiaworld is offering plenty of avenues for free reading while trying to work out a system that keeps their translation work profitable. A problem that has confounded many large platforms.

    I think it’s equally undeniable that people really unwilling to wait for chapter unlocks simply… won’t. It must be difficult trying to come up with ways to keep free readers around, engaged and tempted to pay without driving too many of them into Google’s loving embrace.
     
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  7. Yasi

    Yasi Well-Known Member

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    24 hour timer sucks because there's going to be rollover. Make it 23 hours. Give people the chance to actually claim once a day.
     
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  8. MineralWater

    MineralWater NU's BS supplier

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    Not only would it expel free readers, it also removes the possibility of new readers discovering WW now that new updates won't appear on NU. WW novels in my reading list no longer have any updates.

    Also, back when 'The Emperor Has Returned' appeared on NU, I wanted to read it since it released with ~45 chapters. When I went to WW, only 20 could be read and the rest were behind their wait-to-unlock system. Immediately removed my appetite to read.

    There's also the 'Karma' system. People say that you can read 10 chapters with 300 karma per day. However, that's only 100 free karma daily while the 200 can be earned by commenting. So I have to go to other chapters and comment? No thank you. Sucks really. I still have the 5000 free golden karma when the system opened, so I can read far more chapters. But what's the point? It will run out eventually.
     
  9. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    I think it was said in the comments of the announcement that the timer is 23h, actually.

    I never tested it myself though.
     
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  10. marksteele

    marksteele Well-Known Member

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    I feel like this is an inevitability in the industry. People who read web novels tend to not consider (or just ignore) the fact that unlicensed translations are still a form of piracy. It's unfortunate that, just like with anime subbing and game translations, once it gets popular enough the rightsholders won't ignore it and will start licensing the official translations.

    The good times were good, but web novels have grown to the point where you can't just fly-by-night a translation without getting approval from the rightsholder anymore. That comes with increased costs that have to be made up for somehow. Like it or not, this system is how wuxiaworld is making their costs back.
     
  11. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Oh no, you totally can. You absolutely can, and the vast majority of translators still do it like that.

    Big companies like Wuxiaworld need to answer to the rightholders. Most fantranslators don't need to.
     
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  12. aegis062

    aegis062 Chaotic Demon Emperor

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    I started reading novel in WW back in 2015 this new model just makes me glad that I had long stepped out of WW most of the novel I liked already ended and I have them saved in a nice place forever digital.

    The only novel that is left is life once again once that is done I don't plan to ever visit their site again. fan translation should stay fan translation those who want to support should pay them through Patreon and similar sites, but making fan translation which isn't even edited or even correct in some forms monetary is not the way to go.

    even if you wanted to sell these novel the least they could do is letting you pre-purchase the entire thing so you don't have to worry and can just read as they come out if they want to separate it by volume so that you have to purchase the entire volume it would still be reasonable, but making ppl pay by chapter just doesn't sit well when the cost is 10 times what a regular novel would cost.

    These types of companies won't miss a chance to earn even 1 more dollar so even if they start with a soft approach they tend to switch it after you have been hooked. I would still suggest you go elsewhere you aren't missing much from their newer novels and their older novels are already out in the wild.
     
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  13. Sakuratea

    Sakuratea A Cup ot Tea

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    I visit the NUF today just to see the shitstorm. But from what i've seen, it's not a big as QI shitstorm back then. People are more accepting over time i guess?
     
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  14. ciphertranslation

    ciphertranslation Well-Known Member

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    To see the shitstorm, visit wuxiaworld's "PSA - 3 Months Grace Period Coming to an End!" announcement's comment section
     
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  15. Sakuratea

    Sakuratea A Cup ot Tea

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    Already seen that. What I meant were threads in this forum. Back when qidian international came, there was a lot of thread made about the paywall.
     
  16. Traveling Chef

    Traveling Chef ⁽ʕ•̀ω•́ʔ╯.+:。Professional Unichef~

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    I gotta say I was thinking the same thing but it's probably because most of the problems have been kept on the site WW and not many of the ppl leaving WW for their decision care enough to make too much of a stink here. also, it's highly likely the ones leaving are mostly lurkers like me (even if i do occasionally post on here every year or so)

    that and ppl are tired and jaded by yet another fan translation group becoming a "company" and turning their nose up at all the people and promises they made along the way to get where they are.

    while I admit I'm still not happy over everything that happened, it's just too much work to stay angry at them for making "logical" choices a "company" should make. easier to forget them and move on.
     
  17. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Qidian Drama was when the novel fantranslation scene started getting attention from big webnovel companies, so it made many people panic about the future.

    It wasn't the first time that companies paid attention to novel fantranslation though, since there was the big DMCA from Yen Press towards Baka Tsuki long ago... But people had already forgotten that by then. And it was still only something that affected Light Novels, not really the webnovels, which is different from how the whole thing with Qidian went like.

    But well, time passed, and companies being a part of the webnovel translation scene... By now, it's just the norm. We have fantranslations and we have companies that do webnovel translations too.

    When Wuxiaworld was bought, everyone knew it would eventually change its system, it was only a matter of time... And then they did make an announcement some months back warning people about it.

    So... Well, it's no longer something that seriously surprises the people here on NUF. It's just another company doing company things.

    The people heavily invested in Wuxiaworld may complain on Wuxiaworld's website, but here on NUF? That's just another company that is doing company things, really. No reason to raise a fuss over it.

    It also doesn't help that people thought of Wuxiaworld as the "good guys" back then, and Qidian as the "evil guys" that were "stealing" from Wuxiaworld... Even though we didn't have access to their contract and it was just a thing of people believing on who they wanted to believe with nothing other than their own belief to back up their beliefs.

    This time there was no "evil guy" harming the "good guy"... It's just business. No reason to complain too much about it.
     
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  18. rwxwuxiaworld

    rwxwuxiaworld Well-Known Member

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    Working as intended. In addition to free karma, you get either 1 WTU unlock (Korean) or 2 WTU unlocks (Chinese) for EACH novel on the site - which just so happens to be the normal release rate for the vast majority of Korean/Chinese novels. That's why you aren't having any issues keeping up with your daily reads. Should be even less noticeable once we switch to static timers (midnight server time) for chapter refreshes. And of course, enough daily free karma for ~10 chapters/day, ie 3650 free chapters a year on top of WTU.

    Regarding CrunchyRoll, I would actually love to do it their way - some old series for free, everything else hard paywall, no wait to unlock or free unlocks at all - much simpler and cleaner. Easier to code, easier to explain. But then, the reality would be that all of the non-old content will forever be 100% locked to free users - whereas at Wuxiaworld, with just a bit of patience, every single novel can still be read for free.

    So really, I have to reject the idea that CrunchyRoll stomps on WW when it comes to free users. They offer a lower percentage of free content, but gives unrestricted time-access to that free content. Wuxiaworld offers 100% of the content for free, but restricts how much of it you can access at one time. Two sides of the same coin.

    There's a well-known concept known as the iron triangle of service - good service, fast service, cheap service. You can only pick two. In this case, for free users Wuxiaworld leans more heavily on good+cheap, whereas CrunchyRoll leans more heavily on good+fast.
     
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  19. ciphertranslation

    ciphertranslation Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I've subscribed to the VIP, so the changes don't really bother me, and considering how generously they pay the translators, I do understand why they had to change the system.
     
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  20. Phaos

    Phaos Active Member

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    give it a few month ww will become a graveyard like WN. when it was free no one cared to rip the novel, WN had all the resource WW don't have and it got ripe to shreads. that paywall isn't gonna make people pay it'll just makes more pirates.