Question Which Sister Type is actually worse: The Crazy White Lotus or Innocent Ignorant Dumb Sister?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by CreativeCriticalThinker, May 21, 2023.

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Which Sister Type Character in the RoFan Genre is actually worse?

  1. The Scheming Crazy Evil Jealous White Lotus Bitch Sister aiming for ML + the highest position.

  2. The Innocent Ignorant Clueless Dumb Pampered Beloved Sister who unintentionally causes harm.

  3. The Plot Device Damsel Sister who is just there or useless.....

  4. They are all irritating.

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Deleted member 521381

    Deleted member 521381 Guest

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    If both causes troubles, I dislike the ignorant one more. It feels more strange when you get troubled by someone with good intentions and it's harder to pull off in writing.
     
  2. yz55

    yz55 Member

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    Lol, True the latter one is better that the White Lotus, though both are not complimentary words. But i wonder how you guys perceive those made-up words. They are actually web words and don't exist before.
     
  3. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    These web terms come up quite a bit in webnovels so I imagine that that's where most of the readers on NUF got them from. I used to watch quite a bit of commentary on Chinese Films and TV shows so I'm pretty sure that's where I got it from. I suspect I got them specifically from 哇哇哇妹 because they like using both terms quite a bit and I used to watch a lot of their videos. I doubt that most of the posters on NUF would do that though.
     
  4. yz55

    yz55 Member

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    I personally don't use those web terms and I normally don't watch webcast. But if you r learning Chinese, be careful on what novel to read. Most of them have grammar issues and web terms in their work, however, only written language is allowed to use in a book or written products.
     
  5. CreativeCriticalThinker

    CreativeCriticalThinker Well-Known Member

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    What do you think about the term 'Green Tea Bitch'?
     
  6. Alexcia

    Alexcia Belle of Banter

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    accidentally saw it on a manhua

    it's confusing at first but with enough context it just mean a manipulative and hypocritical bitch
     
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  7. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    It's a bit silly, but it's okay. I'm all about language usability so I'd avoid non-English language terms in general though. These terms are less familiar to readers and writers so their use will just make for less understandable writing. Just look at all the borrowed Japanese terms and see how they just lead to confusion because readers and writers make incorrect assumptions about what they're supposed to mean.
     
  8. CreativeCriticalThinker

    CreativeCriticalThinker Well-Known Member

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    So are there actually better accurate terms for backstabbing two-faced passive agressive petty evil jealous bitches instead of White Lotus & Green Tea Bitch?
     
  9. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    Better or more accurate terms only matter if you're a translator. Otherwise, why not just call a white lotus an "innocent pure-hearted girl" or a green tea a "two-faced girl who pretends to be nice". These are less compact but they leave no room for confusion. "White Lotus" is an especially bad term because so many people are confused by what it's supposed to mean. Any time you see it, you have the fun of guessing whether the writer knows what it's supposed to mean. It just like whenever you see words like "nonplussed".
     
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  10. ZeroXSEED

    ZeroXSEED Well-Known Member

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    They're all irritating, but damsel sister who exist to make the situation worse by being a helpless crybaby* is the absolute worst

    * I can tolerate if they're actually powerless kid, but not if her age isn't much younger than MC
     
  11. Deleted member 215174

    Deleted member 215174 Guest

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    I hate them both!

    It is a hard to swallow pill for me. And I really hate when the dumb sister is forgiving toward the crazy white lotus.
    Also I hate it when story reward dumb characters in the name of goodness. Like why are we equating goodness with being dumb?
     
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  12. CreativeCriticalThinker

    CreativeCriticalThinker Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a specific stories/novels in mind?
     
  13. Deleted member 215174

    Deleted member 215174 Guest

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    Operation True Love
     
  14. CreativeCriticalThinker

    CreativeCriticalThinker Well-Known Member

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    000.jpeg
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    In many fairy tales like Cinderella + Beauty and The Beast + Three Sisters/Green Meadow + Diamonds and Toads + Helga – An Icelandic Fairy Tale sisters are often depicted as very antagonistic to each other.
    But there are old tales that portray loving sisters who aren't bad evil vain wicked.

    Fairy Tale Sisters Who Don't Hate Each Other

    https://www.tor.com/2021/04/07/fairy-tale-sisters-who-dont-hate-each-other/

    Two Loving Sisters in a Fairy Tale
    https://surlalunefairytales.blogspot.com/2010/11/two-loving-sisters-in-fairy-tale.html


    Bold Sisters in Fairy Tale Families
    https://folklorethursday.com/folktales/bold-sisters-in-fairy-tale-families/

    Some best/known examples about positive Sisterhood:
    000000.jpg
    The pig (Denmark)
    Sisters helping sisters, girls rescuing themselves

    The Story
    A poor widow is working with her three daughters (combing flax, baking, etc.) when a pig runs into their garden. She sends her eldest to chase the pig away, and the pig lures the girl into a foggy forest where she gets lost. Suddenly the pig turns into a man who takes the girl home and locks her in a room. The same thing happens with the second daughter, but the third managed to win the man's approval, and gets free rein of the house. She finds her sisters in the locked rooms, and finds the keys to let them out. She makes a plan of escape.
    One day the man comes home complaining it's cold outside. The girl asks him to take a bag of coal to her poor old mother. She hides her sister in the bag with gold and silver, and covers her with coal. The man carries her home on his back; when he tries to peek inside the bag, the girl yells "I can see you!" and he thinks the youngest daughter is watching him. He carries the first two sisters home, and then the youngest hides herself in a bag, so all thee make it back to their mother safe and sound. When the man comes home to an empty house, he bursts into pebbles out of anger.

    What makes it a feminist folktale?
    A brave and clever girl does not only rescue herself, but also saves her sisters.
    This tale is related to the Bluebeard and Mr. Fox stories. But while in those (ATU 312) the previous wives are killed, in this type (ATU 311) the heroine finds a way out of danger, and she also saves the other girls. This is the reason I especially like this story: it is very rare in European folktales to find sisters who don't compete, but rather help each other and work together. This is a very important element to highlight, in the context of all the "evil stepsister" and "kind and unkind girls" tales. Traditional tales have very few female friendships to begin with, or good sibling connections in general, so it's good to emphasize the rare exception.
    I also love this version in particular because it doesn't feature a romantic element. In many variants the girls go off to marry a rich and handsome stranger, and the moral of the story is along the lines of "don't marry rich and handsome strangers" (which is also an important message, but also kind of makes it all the girls' fault). In this Danish story the girls get lost in the woods chasing a pig, and they only go to the man's home because they "can't find the way home." They go to his house for shelter, not (misguided) romance, and none of them become his lover or wife.

    Things to consider
    The English text calls the animal a pig; in Hungarian I often say "boar" or "wild pig" because the creature comes out of the woods, and because "pig" is also a pejorative term for a pervert (which in this case is not entirely unfounded).

    Sources
    Clara Stroebe: Danish Fairy Book (1922.)
    Sven Grundtvig: Gamle danske minder i folkemunde (1854.)

    Notes

    A Tarkabarka Hölgy at 12:00 AM
    Interestingly, the name of this tale type in English is Rescue by the sister, but in Hungarian we call it Girl-killer. In some versions the man does kill the first two girls, but their sister usually brings them back to life somehow.

    hartFebruary 20, 2020 at 6:17 PM
    Good story. Sounds like the Italian story, Count Silvernose. The youngest sister rescues the two older ones by hiding them in a bag (sometimes a basket) of dirty laundry. No one marries the count as he was the devil himself.

    http://multicoloreddiary.blogspot.com/2020/02/the-pig-feminist-folktales-8.html?m=1
    http://multicoloreddiary.blogspot.com/p/feminist-folktales.html?m=1
    https://multicoloreddiary.blogspot.com/search?q=sisters
    https://fairytalelobby.wordpress.com/2016/02/03/its-getting-late-we-better-run-to-the-post-office/

     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2024
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  15. mir

    mir Well-Known Member

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    Adding this link if anyone else wants to read a chunk of where that quote is from.
    https://inthesetimes.com/article/girls-gone-anti-feminist
     
  16. Flying UFO

    Flying UFO Well-Known Member

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    Both are irritaring... But at least when MC won against the scheming one, they usually have enough IQ to understand how bad their situation, despaired over it, maybe even regretting it. Some of them have the self-knowledge that they're bad, yet didn't change it to pursue their goal. As a reader it's easier to hate them when they're truly bad. Or maybe even amazed by their scheme. :blob_grin:

    While the ignorant one lives in their own world, usually not understanding why MC harmed her nor that her own behavior cause harm to others. Usually only "win" at first because of the plot or luck.
     
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  17. CreativeCriticalThinker

    CreativeCriticalThinker Well-Known Member

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  18. CreativeCriticalThinker

    CreativeCriticalThinker Well-Known Member

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    There is one concept I'd love to see and read:

    7 Different kind of Flawed Badass Strong Smart Sisters forming an unusual Patchwork Family Dynamic (and living together under one roof).:aww:
    • The Main First Biological Sister
    • The Twin Sister
    • The Half-Sister
    • The Stepsister
    • The Adoptive Sister
    • The Foster Sister
    • The Close Cousin
    No backstabbing, evil jealously/envy or catfighting over pathetic toxic men!!!

    Personally Inspired by
    • Little Women (Novel/Movies)
    • Little Big Women (Movie)
    • The Twelve Dancing Princesses (Fairytale)
    • The Witches of Eastwick (Movie/Sisterhood)
    • Sister Sister (TV),
    • Half & Half (TV)
    • Fleabag (TV)
    • Bad Sisters (TV)
    • Sisters (TV)
    • Revolutionary Sisters (K-Drama)
    • A Wicked Tale of Cinderella's Stepmom (Novel/Manhwa)
    • Ibitte Konai Gibo to Gishi / My Stepmother and Stepsisters Do Not Pick On Me (Manga)
    • The Missing Sister / The Seven Sisters (Book Series) by Lucinda Riley
    • The Brown Sisters by Nicholas Nixon...
     
  19. Ariba

    Ariba Member

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    The dumd ones are definitely more annoying
     
  20. sekka_23

    sekka_23 Active Member

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    I prefer the White Lotus sisters more because they’re usually more well-written enjoyable and villains. The ignorant/stupid sister,
    that causes unintentional harm is usually just terribly written and an annoyance.