He waited until the 5th floor to do that. and he discovered the possibility on the 1st floor also, a lot of stuff doesn't need books This is not meta knowledge. This is just "not retarded" levels of reason. Moreover, MC actually figured it out IC after he accidentally discovered mapping talent and pain resistance. Both of which he grinded
That's essentially the same as just starting out. You can't expect everyone to think the way you do as you've more than likely experienced this in other forms of entertainment. His thought processes just aren't like someone whose read grinding stories or played video games to buff skills. From what we've seen he's a guy who takes his time to understand these things and sticking around those floors assuming you'll be safe and not ambushed is somewhat ignorant. You can't just trust supernatural experiences to be perfect without some experience on how the system works.
so much for three books? has he never heard of e-books? he might as well install those logical quizzes apps to enhance his thought capability
I very much disagree. A sword is much harder than a fist, sharp, heavier than a fist, and you generally don't have to worry about damaging it so can swing as hard as you can. MC isn't Yoroichi so it's unlikely he's crossed that gap yet. You think boxing in a life or death battle is easier than swinging a sword? I doubt it especially after he gets the talent. At any rate I don't have a problem with him focusing on punching. I have a problem with him not being prepared to use the sword when there's a giant monster in front of him that he needs to kill quickly.
no it isn't I call bullshit. this has nothing to do with experience in forms of entertainment or thinking like I do. This is basic deductive reasoning. Not only that, this is something MC explicitly did when he decided to grind his map making and pain resistance skill... and then suddenly forgot all about if the MC never did those things it would be one thing. But MC had literally had his arm chopped off, was bleeding out... and decided to stop and grind pain skill. This shows he is definitely thinking this way
Professional boxing would be better than a noob swinging a sword randomly around creatures that are bound to become more powerful. Swinging it as hard as he can probably wouldn't even unlock the proficiency for swords but rather something far more generic. Proper sword play is skilled and required practice. More and more people will be able to withstand those kinds of swings and counter with talents and other hidden means. This boxing skill is too essentially. While the sword can become something more useful, he'd better off getting a training manual first but he hasn't had the mind set to do so as yet. Once again, you're making the assumption that he'll think the way you do. "basic deductive reasoning" isn't something all that basic for most people and I'll point out that trying to grind up skills in that place right off the bat is something a lunatic(or us) would do. His mind could just function differently and I'll add that the skill grinding is bound to come. Which will mostly be a time skip+text dump on what skills were learned.
I'm pretty sure that after the fight with the guy that turned into a monster he was in a bleeding state and losing five health a minute, so he likely didn't have the chance to grind pain tolerance. As for mapping, he's probably doing it in his head now seeing as he gained a skill which allows him to do that. We probably won't see any major text highlighting this abilities any more, just a brief mention when the come into play and when he checks his experience. After all, it would be awfully annoying if I read a chapter and all it was was him grinding mapping or pain tolerance instead of plot.
Except that he wouldn't be a noob after gaining a talent for it. After he has the talent for it then it would almost automatically deal more damage than his fists. In addition to that martial arts skill carriers over when you're using a different weapon. You don't suddenly forget everything about combat when you pick up an unsuitable weapon.
Anyone here who even know anything at all about either boxing OR weapons by the way? But anyway, from what I remember don't you need to be like 2 levels higher for a Karateka or whatever to beat a Kendo practitioner? Like on average you need to be a 4th dan(?) to beat a 2nd dan because there's such a huge advantage to using a weapon. I think I remember reading that from "Karate Shoukoushi Kohinata Minoru" lol...
Gain one talent level for the sword wouldn't over power a defined talent skill(or technique, I don't remember). He'd have to swing it hundreds of times over to level it up and swing it with proper purpose so it registers as a sword talent and not a talent for swinging random long objects. He isn't going to understand the required foot movements and swing styles so easily for it to make a significant impact against the creatures he's up against. So far most talents have been very basic to grasp since they have been very basic tasks. Until the author shows that advanced skills are just as easily obtained and learned like simpler skills I won't be convinced of a sword talents acquisition. Now why he hasn't tested it at all so far has me some what confused. While I hold the view that his fist skills are superior at the moment, its weird that he hasn't even tried using the club or sword.
Are you perhaps ignoring how talents work in this story? Randomly punch a few monsters and a talent is generated that automatically tells you how to punch correctly. Same thing with a sword. After killing a few monsters he'll gain a talent and automatically know how to swing it correctly. There's no reason why sword mastery would be more advanced than punching.
Punching is very different than knowing the intricacies of sword play, it's so different conceptually and frankly a lot easier to grasp. Point being if there's a skill cap of 100 for punches then sword play would be 1.5 or 2 times that. Why shouldn't higher tier talents take longer to master and utilize? In the most recent chapter whatever entity pulled them into it wants to promote hard work, why would it give out euqally proficiency boosts for everything across the board with equal gains? My argument is about the value of low level sword swinging compared to the ravenous fist he got from the golem. His punches at low level were nothing compared to the ravenous fist. What value is there in one or two sword levels when he already has gloves to compliment the ravenous fist?
You're just making stuff up. Boxing is an incredibly intricate form of fighting which is something you seem to be ignoring. It would be far easier to go into combat with a sword than to go in with your fists. You don't need intricate moves to gain skills in the dungeon. You just need to perform the basic action enough times. Plus are you seriously going to argue that basic sword fighting is more complex than mathematics or cartography? I've already explained this. Ravenous fists is just a martial arts technique. It's not a talent and doesn't even level up. It was noted that the golem didn't even do that much damage when hitting them. The major power behind his hits are his strength and punching skill. The gloves mainly just protect his hands a bit. They don't increase damage. On the 4th floor he hit the thug guy 5 times, with his full strength, without killing him. A sword on the other hand? It would massively increase the damage he deals per attack. It has more reach, is harder, and has a cutting edge. That not even getting into the fact that swinging something would add a lot of force. I'd like to see a human take 5 full hits with a sword and live. Not happening. Even if he doesn't have a sword martial arts technique it's still more powerful than punching someone with leather gloves on. He's a video of an old man using a pair of swords. Towards the end he puts a hole through a piece of armor with both of them. I assume he's not a trained swordsman. A fist isn't doing that.
Do you just not read what you are replying to? I have literally told you that I am not "assuming everyone thinks like me", I am basing this on the fact that the MC literally thinks this way in character. He used this logic on the first floor, then just stopped and forgot about it until he suddenly remembered to do it again at the end of the 4th floor Also, accusing me of "think everyone thinks like you" is even stupider because my side argument of "deductive reasoning" was anyone who is smart and capable of deductive reasoning should have figured it out. That does not mean I think everyone thinks like me, it means I think everyone who cannot figure out that you need to grind skills in the dungeon is stupid. At most you would be able to accuse me of being a stuck up snob who thinks he is smarter than anyone else. which would still be wrong, but at least would be a misrepresentation of my actual argument instead of this completely random BS you are going on about. seriously though, "I figured out I can magically grind skills, so let me do it now" is just an example of being non retarded. And that most people who deduce the magical grinding would actually have the mental capacity to make use of it)
And once more. The same assumption. You're missing the underlining point. He thinks differently. He did grind a skill and that was out of straight convenience at the time and easy to do. People all think differently which you are not getting. Because something seems beyond obvious to you doesn't mean its the same for everyone. There are thousands of things he could potentially grind in order to increase his survivability and worth in the real world. Should he do them all at the same time? Should he only do what you think is smart at the time? He grinded one thing so why isn't that enough? He has barely started and there are other things to think about and consider when being in a situation like that other than "grind like crazy". Obviously there will be a point in the story where he will address grinding. The concept of "doing it now" as I addressed in a previously reply is that it can be unsafe. Taking risks in an environment like that without getting a proper mindset is unfoundedly dangerous.
It being a technique is the same point, it's what gives the validity of being more useful than baseless sword swinging whethere or not it levels up is a moot point frankly. What exactly about one or two levels of sword swing will be more advantageous than a tech designed around fist fighting that'll slowly increase the punching talent while using it and probably even strength(in regards to strength it may level up the same rate when using a sword). That video shows a still target that isn't trying to fight back or against a group. A fist can be much faster to make an effect and make multiple strikes against weak points. Loose sword swings can leave you open or even get stuck in the enemy. The Ravenous fist appears to be a very advanced physical combat tech for a plethora of situations. It's a greater investment in the short term, which he needs more at the moment, than trying to force grind sword levels without a proper foundation. In regards to the guy that punched him would he be able to get enough space to effectively use the sword when they were right next to each other? I surely wouldn't expect him to try pull his arms back prematurely and summon the weapon for a quick attempted stab. The new gloves give increased punching force(if my memory serves correctly) and his punching skill is more than likely increasing while using the Ravenous fist tech. Maybe you're misunderstanding something fundamental about my argument. For now the fist tech is better for him, but later the sword or some kind of weaponry would be more advantageous in most initial combat situations.
All the facepalms. He thinks differently FROM HIMSELF? My literal entire fucking argument was that MC explicitly thought X, then he did X on floor 1, then he FORGOT to do X anymore, then he suddenly remember to do X again on floor 5. My own thinking IS COMPLETELY FUCKING IRRELEVANT TO MY ARGUMENT!!! The fact you keep on bleating "he thinks different than you" is beyond bizarre. are you trolling me?
If anything it's the opposite. For now the sword is stronger but after he gains superhuman levels of punching like Tifa or Yoroichi then it wouldn't matter that he's bare handed. It doesn't matter if the fist is faster if the thug would have died after the first attack. After he gains the talent he's no longer going to be wildly swinging about. He'll know how to make effective basic attacks which will be enough to one shot most of the things he's come across. They also weren't right next to each other. They each came in through a different corner of the room. I'm pretty sure he didn't put on the new pair of gloves because they didn't add any protection to his hands and were worse than the gloves he started with.
This is a complete and utter bullshit argument. He explicitly had times where he completely conquered a level and had as much time as he wanted in perfect safety. he chose to just move on without grinding at all. I didn't say it's obvious to everyone, I said anyone who doesn't find this obvious is mentally handicapped. And I happen to be right on this thing. Only a person who is literally mentally handicapped will, in that specific scenario, not figure it out. This, however, is a completely and utterly UNRELATED ARGUMENT to the MC being INCONSISTENT about it. Maybe the fact that there are those two completely different argument confused you? but that cannot be because I have explicitly clarified this in detail multiple times already. Argument 1: MC thought X, then did X, then forgot to do X anymore, then suddenly started doing X again 10 chapters later. MC is inconsistant completely unrelated argument 2: Only a mentally handicapped person would not figure X out in that scenario. MC is not mentally handicapped, he figured it out.
I wonder about that as well. Are they timed on the floors? Surely they can't just stay at the end of a level for days and find things to grind only to come out and find that the same amount of time passed.