I've seen a lot of requests for this kind of stuff, I'm going to be a bit antagonistic and question why some people are into it (But since this is your kink, hopefully you're into it, after all what is more evil than attacking others fandoms?) I understand why people get interested in this stuff, and I went through a bit of a phase like this when I was younger, and I think its fine to be interested in exploring things especially if you feel like people tell you not to and you want to see for yourself. But I do think it is ultimately an unfulfilling road, and I found much more interesting stuff when I left it behind. This kind of interest is inherently contradictory, because the protagonist is interacting with other people yet insists on treating them as objects rather than people. The perfection of disinterest in other people's humanity, would not be to do evil, but rather to go off into the forest and live alone and avoid people all together. The person who does evil reveals their dependence on others, that they want to go back and forth to recognize the humanity in others and then act otherwise. To throw in a bit of Hegel, its ultimately unfulfilling because treating others as less than human, you have no equals to recognize your own accomplishments. The interaction between people that recognize each other as equals has endless variety, complexity, and surprises, but those enjoying the temporary power kick of denying the humanity cut themselves off from this and are trapped in more material pursuits. There are of course good reasons for some dark emotions and actions that are worth exploring. A lot of times people get caught up in surface appearances of an act, but more important is what end people are acting towards, its good for example to feel anger at an in-just society. So I don't mean to say that stories shouldn't explore dark sides of the world. Of course if you know what you're doing, read whatever you want, I respect people's ability to decide what they like reading. I just want to make sure everyone is doing alright and has a healthy worldview. If you find yourself getting jaded and unsatisfied with this kind of stuff, the more fulfilling route might not be looking for increasing novelty of new extreme things. Anyways love and flowers to everyone, and I hope you hate this and got what you wanted.
Hmmm. Simple. I like cultivation or power system novels. But the blockhead way of charging ahead is something I don't like cause - The mentality of going against something you can't win because to save someone only works when everyone has equal limits and can make 'mortal' mistakes. Then the idea of pursuing emotional needs outweighs cause you have limited time (80-90yrs) no change in that, so you need to make most of it. There isn't no survival or a goal higher than having a happy life. But once the notion of breaking that barrier and the chance of godhood is brought a lot things changes. And society as a whole will and should change in its core value. It's no more a cohabitation but a race against time and others. Rest all is just a personal choice, if you want to pursue happiness and familial love then go for it. But that will not make one strong or right minded to achieve the unthinkable eternal life, you will have to cross over them. That doesn't mean one is heartless or lost humanity. It's just their thought is different. Like this " This is all a breeze, few days from now everything will be gone, is there any meaning in that fleeting happiness?. I can surely come back to this when I'm eternal and have plenty of time to experience this and much more". Yes it has a whole different way of seeing relations,love and responsibilities, but one that will be common in that world. Basically if I'm reading a power system novel I want this persona. That definitely doesn't mean I or anyone have or should find it inspirational in this world where it's proven by eons of evolution that it is a waste of time. humanity's greatest gift is it's adaptability. Even if we are thrown in a canaballistic world we will thrive.
Well, I wouldn't necessarily describe this as having or requiring an evil protagonist. Recognition requires both people to want to enter into it, so insofar as the protagonist is enters into the world where others are unwilling to recognize their humanity, the protagonist in under no obligation to reciprocate. I think its fine to have worlds that are extremely harsh where the protagonist is caught up in survival and getting stronger, and sometimes these worlds are designed such that the protagonist cannot be safe unless they become the strongest. Also being solitary and anti-social and focusing on individual pursuits is fine too. Evil actions are specifically the self-contradictory type, of wanting to engage socially with other people in ways that doesn't acknowledge them as people with their own interests and pursuits. People may of course be using the term differently than me, so I dunno if people are looking for characters that are genuinely evil, or just harsh world where the protagonist has to be ruthless because the world is ruthless. As a bit of a sidenote, I'd also say that I think people can often underestimate how much social interaction is really baked into us. Even in novels where the characters are pursuing some godly existence away from everyone else, the result is usually not representable, and the experience of the novel is still heavily grounded in social interactions. I've never seen a novel that was genuinely focused solely on cultivating for its own sake. The characters are constantly being thrown into interactions with others whether they be struggles for existence or cooperation. So even if they say they're not interested in pursuing this, the way other people react to the protagonist is often a driving force between the bulk of these novels.
Well I wouldn't use the word evil, it's too extreme and an almost religious word that tends to depict cruel acts based on pure lust and craze over others suffering. Well being self-centred and being ruthless got nothing to do with anti social. No mc has actual anti social behaviours, if they were they wouldn't have made it far without changing it. For example I'll take fang yuan from Reverend insanity. He's definitely not anti social, but I swear to my god that he does not care what others interest are, he'll be aware of their intentions and possible actions but he will use it to his own good. That's what is the odd one, they work completely fine, just without the shackles of another's life in heart. take it as a working sociapath or psychopath. Another thing this power system has is a hard difference in social levels. Each realm or levels in power represent different class, and a higher classification between mortal grades and divine, there will be more elite classes within. This is similar to our present classes but with deeper differences, if I were to be a bit direct it's like food chain and each social class goes higher and higher. So now I can speak about cooperation, it's done in same social classes or food chain level, each class is like a species of its own and need to be treated the same way when one was in a lower class. The real achievement is the number of social classes you rule. It's a known fact that it gets smaller and smaller up, so the goal is to reach the peak of the pyramid. That isn't by a simple climbing or pushing others off. It's by learning the system the flows of current, the opportunities and taking a step front and a step back when necessary. It's like the scene in "The pacifier" when Diesel passes the traps in the cellar by using the dance moves. No one step of move is gonna get you to the top, it's a sequence of complex steps. But you can't reach there by holding too many things, one, it's going to be heavy, and two it will slow you down that means losing opportunities. All CN or power system novels depict this in varying levels. Some mc leaves after marriage, some are made to lose the love one and have free time and a drive to rush thier cultivation. And that's what I feel is half assed and an ire. The synopsis talk about him rendering heavens and hell null but his dick renders his brain null. When reading it, my brain unconsciously feels the gears are not fit properly and are turning based on some mystical powers. basically the cultivation thing should work out itself wether it's based on pursuing power or social contentment, if one doesn't balance it well or leans towards the latter too much and still happen to win in the end then that's what I call a very thot plot armor.
I don't think we disagree on any major points, but just to clarify one thing. I meant these as different things that people might confuse with being "evil" or immoral. A ruthless character to me is someone who does things we might find excessive or shocking compared to our social norms, but a character can be ruthless and moral if they're in a ruthless world and are just adapting to the norms around them. A common example is when the protagonist kills an enemy they don't need to, because they know in that world the enemy wouldn't take it as a favor and would continue to seek revenge through underhanded means. By anti-social or being a loner, I just mean a character who doesn't actively seek out social connections with others. But in situations where the protagonist does interact or cooperate with others for their own goals, they are moral insofar as they acknowledge the help they are given, and act fairly to the same extent. In the novels I've read so far (which are mostly more standard cultivation novels as I haven't sought out any especially evil protagonists), there's usually always some attempt to justify the protagonists actions so they're moral, even if sometimes the situation is engineered in such a way that the protagonist is justified in taking advantage of others. For example if they're cooperating to get something and share the reward, then their partner will betray them at the last moment to justify the protagonist taking all the reward for themself. Sometimes I still find these justification a bit thin or the protagonist overly excessive, but there's still the attempt at justifying their actions regardless of how well its pulled off. Again, I don't know to what extent this applies to what others are reading. I just noticed people requesting more "evil" protagonists, and I dunno if by this they mean someone who actually takes advantage of others, acts unfairly to those who genuinely help them, and inflicts unnecessary suffering, or if they just mean characters put in harsh settings that don't allow them to enter real cooperative relationships and who are willing to adapt to those same standards so others don't take advantage of them.
Just to clarify I'm not arguing, just discussing my views, I found it fun to discuss with someone who understood in the same way I did (only different in the moral part). and yes the forced plot where mc is always brought into a situation where his actions will be just are a bit too much. What I seek in evil protagonists 1) everything is a calculation. 2) very intuitive and innovative. 3) dexterous, aligned to both the right and left brain. 4) understands change is everything, and changes his pace, style, anything if situation requires. now the moral or ethical errors that may occur due to this is something I feel is acceptable. this because this kind of character is really rare, and fits the bill to be a unique that can one day surpass what others couldn't. example. If you see a sports column where a player died, one may think about the loss and the pain the family went through. But such a person if interested would keep it back of his mind and take it as a puzzle to solve. "What will change?, Was his statistics important for the team, will there be a change in the sports regulations?" Many more. And this is not conscious, it just goes on in the back. And they usually find the answers quick. These can look past any dire circumstances, if his/her parents died, they would have already thought behind what are the steps to be taken to stabilize their life. Whereas we would still be hung over with the loss. hmm maybe I missed a few traits. But yeah the cn doesn't do a good job of cultivation novel in my mind. The authors are too hung up on word count and releasing daily that they don't spend time on research and planning the story.
Ah okay, it just seemed like some of your points weren't necessarily about "evil protagonists" but more about morality and social structure in cultivation stories in general, so I wasn't sure if you were objecting to my characterization or just expanding the discussion. I think these are interesting aspects to discuss too, I just worry about getting too sidetracked from the topic of this thread, it might be better to continue that discussion in a new thread.
Hahaha, I knew I would see a comment like this. I was wondering when someone was gonna call that out. Anyway to answer your question. I would say your opinion is invalid due to you being an anomaly... Just kidding added a new option to the poll. Check it out
I love this list. All of eternity at my fingertips is a good one its fanfiction and mc is a bona fide vampire no sparkly stuff. The only negative i have of this series is that it has too much smut but you can skip it. The author made some sequels for this too. Blood and chaos is fanfiction too where mc is vampire and its rather good its kinda comical but still good. When i have some more time ill try to recommend more.
Hey Guys! Check out all the new stories I added! Spoiler: People who may be interested! @Fooljastic @Zeusomega @Aindorin @ludagad @purpleeee @Agent4007 @Fulminata @Tim432 @kyouma001 @AMissingLinguist @SamStrike @JIKI @LowerTierDragon @Karyehs
I hope you guys enjoy! Also if you would to share some of your experiences with coming to like Alternative Protagonists, please don't hesitate to share!
@Exalted-on-High1 Noticed a new title "Frozen Heart" in your list, but it's a very generic name and i cannot find the specific fiction you mentioned. Can you please give a link, or the fanfic`s description.
I read Reverend Insanity half of it and dropped it because of the gu fist power and some expected occurrences which made it boring... Though, this is my opinion about it. I really liked the novel. I'll try some of the novels, thank you.
The link: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9178740/1/Frozen-Heart Also check this one out: Sith Lord or Lord of Death?
Hey Guys! I've thought it over and decided to add links to all the fanfics under the Fanfiction section. So if you still can't find some stories don't worry!!! Spoiler: I'm summoning you, to compensate I added some more fics! (I promise this won't be a regular thing) @Fooljastic @Zeusomega @Aindorin @ludagad @purpleeee @Agent4007 @Fulminata @Tim432 @kyouma001 @AMissingLinguist @SamStrike @JIKI @LowerTierDragon @Karyehs