Discussion Are State Polities From the past and Alternate History Fiction Considered as Politic?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Bright_Lucky_Star, Dec 17, 2021.

  1. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    What if instead Prussia united most german states "Kleindeutsche Lösung" (Little German solution), it was
    was Austria that united all german states into the German Nation "Großdeutsche Lösung" (Greater German solution)? or if it was Bavaria that becomes dark horse by conquering France land and united german states (I think Bavarian dialect will be standard german language as consequences)

    What is the outcome for principality to have territory outside their parent state/country?
    Margraviate of Brandeburg has territory outside Holy Roman Empire that they inherited from the State of Teutonic Order (a crusading state) turned into Duchy of Prussia as a vassal of Poland and later received the duchy sovereignty from both monarchs of between Sweden and Poland after their war ended. Both of their territories will be known as Brandenburg-Prussia.
    In 1700 Emperor of HRE allowed Elector of Bradenburg to crowned him as "King in Prussia" instead of "King of Prussia" in the land the governed outside HRE territory, after the Spanish War of Succession (If I remember most senior regions in HRE is principality govern by prince-elector, right?)
    In the Ring of Fire / 1632 novel series, the Kingdom of Bohemia (today is Czech) breaks away from the Astro-Hungary Empire (in this timeline HRE collapse sooner, I don't know why they use that name instead of Austrian Empire, for me Danubian Empire sounds better). The problem is Prince of Liechtenstein has lands in both Bohemia and Austro-Hungary owe loyalty to both monarchs and in a scenario, if the Kingdom of Bohemia vs Austro-Hungary Empire happens he will just send support money and some men to both sides and join the battle the first one who invited him lol.

    (Not related to our historical world, but related double territory problem, Viscount's Rise medieval setting not in our world/different planet) In Royalroadlegend Viscounts Rise, Earl Braydon gained land after battles in Duchy of Shuluk, he's aristocrat of Kingdom of Fiveria but that territory he gained lay outside of Kingdom Fiveria realm, will he assume the title "Sovereign Prince in Shuluk" like Prussia.

    Also What if Austro-Hungary Empire didn't collapse and turn into Danubian Federation with Habsburg to unite all ethnicities in the realm?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
  2. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    nah not really on fiction it may part involve world building
    if involve past stuff it maybe historical stuff~ sadly this cat knowledge on Europe history is almost zero so can't really answer it~

    anyway
    how they unite it? war, diplomacy or mix of them can have different outcome on sense aftermath~ mainly about friction among formerly 2 country~ if the story focus on that with involve on government stuff and policy yes it can be politic with it intrigue and those stuff~ for the reader who know the history it may become pet peeve tho cuz if delivery poorly make your cheek twitch~

    what became principality that have territory outside their parent? well it depend on how the classification you want to make~ it may become colony or err state of india when British rule over them hmmm de facto protectorate or something, there proper term for that~ depending on how the outside operate really~

    you may wanna dive into UK, France, Spanish, Netherlands wait Dutch and Portugal history~ those countries have enuf stuff about colonisation outside Europe continent~
     
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  3. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    Well if you listen recents news some nuffians gotten into heat topic like Politic in NUF, politic is forbidden topic as far NUF rule concerned but is politic as current day to day politic like who is the president and minister of certain country or politic NUF also includes past historic politic like certain kingdoms, empire and principality ?
    No, not colonozation. The dynasty who rule Bradenburg gain inheritance of territory in Prussia after their relative death, the later ruler unite those Bradenburg and Prussia into one as kingdom of Prussia because.
    For Principality Lieceshten in Ring of Fire novels, their lands are divided because the country broke up into two polities between Kingdom of Bohemia and Astro-Hungary Empire, so the prince owe loyalty and pay taxes to both monarchs.
    Braydon frim Viscount Rise gain new lands in Duchy of Shuluk because of War, he practically conquering all those lands in battle fair and square. I rather doubt Braydon join Shuluk nobility as vassal to make his gained territory as legitimate as he's practically outsider to them, his new gained territory also not part of Kingdom of Fiveria so theoritically he can be a Prince in his own right in that new lands but if declared that without his King approval mean wrath might befall upon from his King if he not play carefully.

    I call upon NUF prince and princess, duke and duchess and statholder of blackjack republic
    @robsause115 @RainMorga @Cutter Masterson @Jojo775 @Kadmos1 @Saorihirai @Ddraig @FIEND @SoulZer0

    @Marvin @Drakaos @AliceShiki
    @Epythymy @Baldingere @UnGrave @Tsukiko Tsutsukakushi

    Special invitation to queen @Lissi of Lissidom the recognized monarch in NUF
     
  4. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    gimme the map for outline cuz this cat have no idea where is wut basic geography will ya

    so far yes this is politic on history setting

    NUF just don't wanna deal with irl political stuff cuz most forum turn into childish fight and it bothersome to fight each other~ there also sensitive topic that tend into another childish tear each other side such as lgbt which tend more on political side~ so people may think all political stuff is bad~
     
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  5. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    Kingdom of Prussia is legal predecessor of German Empire and the predecessor of current Germany, while Austrian Empire and later Astro-Hungary Empire is predecessor of today Austria, Hungary, Czech and several other countries, monarch of Austro-Hungary in the past is traditionally elected as Holy Roman Emperor.
    You can try type map Holy Roman Empire in google. It consist of multiple principalities, it's land empire that hold many territories and not exactly a centralized state/country, more like the stick together because they have the same monarch.
    You can also try search Kingdom of Prussia and German Empire on google, they're like germany on steroid, larger than current germany.

    For Viscount Rise on RRL, there's no map if I remember, yup there's no map.
     
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  6. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    oh~ this cat think the novel use irl map so kinda baffle where that duchy again? this cat under impression that rrl story use irl history make one still within astrohungary and prusia empire, Prussia was smacked by Napoleon no?

    so we kinda miss the line
     
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  7. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    Hmm no, Kingdom of Prussia didn't yet exist in time of Napoleon, but it's true that Napoleon 1st smacked Holy Roman Empire(german states) and make it collapse, well Napoleon practically deafeat most continetal european states. It was in the of Napoleon 3rd (nephew of the 1st) that Prussia smacked France Empire in battle, capture napoleon 3rd, and then unite german states to proclaim German Empire in france territory lol.

    Viscount Rise world setting is not Earth, but the story is kinda medieval timeline. Sorry to make you confuse.

    If you like you can try read how countries ger wank of become difference alternatehistory forum, Thailand become democratic, Singapore getting bigger with more lands, if Japan didn't lose war, Ottoman still survive, many other alternate history scenario, some of them written like novel so not boring.
    Edit: I make a mistake, Napoleon 1st and French defeated HRE in the year of 1806. Kingdom of Prussia founded in 1700 so yeah prussia also get smacked by napoleon.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2021
  8. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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  9. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Forum rules allow you to discuss novels and their plots. The novel being based on historical events or not is irrelevant.
     
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  10. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    how about just historical politic from the past era.
     
  11. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    If it's about a novel, you can discuss it just fine.

    If it's about actual politics discussion... As a rule of thumb, you can't.
     
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  12. Ai chan

    Ai chan Queen of Yuri, Devourer of Traps, Thrusted Witch

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    Frankly, Ai-chan has no idea of european history. But in Ai-chan's opinion, alternative history stories is not a political thread. It's the flexing of politics that is against the rule, but the academic discussion of a fiction about alternative history is not political.
     
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  13. Nimroth

    Nimroth Someone

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    Problem with that is there is plenty of highly political stuff that most people simply regard as history rather than politics, so it is hard to draw a clear line.
    So rather than "avoid politics" it tend to be more about avoiding politics that are relevant today in some way.
     
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  14. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Oh, I agree with you that there is a blurry line at some points, and that there are some things people can talk about that nobody will bat an eye at.

    But it seems like OP is actively trying to see how far they can push before they break the rules, so like... Well, just don't?
     
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  15. baka8roukanako

    baka8roukanako Justice for Qi Rong

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    Yes. Is there even a need to argue?
    You'd better rant at all those confused people who submit 'historical' tags to wuxia/xianxia novels just because there are some made-up court politics and made-up emperors in them.
     
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  16. Kadmos1

    Kadmos1 Well-Known Member

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    Joke here: I thought "Prussian" was a Polish-Russian!
     
  17. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    Lol, not exactly the same, but at first I thought Prussia is like Russia and Belarus found out they are just one of Germanies before united.
     
  18. VonHalzen

    VonHalzen Active Member

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    Why was I tagged in this? Anyway if noone wants Luxemburg I need a place to store my herrings, so...