Discussion Background of most webnovels, Chinese socialist revolution

So, I've read many webnovels that described life during the Cultural Revolution and how the communist ideology thrived in China.
This is my try to put into words what I've learned, feel free to correct me or add any information you wish below.
I've written this mainly to understand how another culture worked, and how I could create my own culture for a novel from scratch.


First son were the heir of the family, they and their wives were tasked with caring for their parents, help bring up their younger siblings and provide for the family.
They are like an umbrella, covering the whole family in case the roof (parents) leaks.

The girls were married away, it was considered a shameful thing for a male to marry in a family since being filial to one ancestors and their parents by carrying their family name was respected highly in society.
The girls were raised to be married away but didn't suffer from it during childhood. They weren't treated badly just because they would be married away, they were different from boys since they couldn't do hard work and would be part of another family after marrying, but they were still cared for as daughters.

When a girl has married away, the in-laws had to give the girl's parents a dowry, basically money and items to take their girl away.
Of course, the parents had to agree, but rather than searching for a suitable husband, it was more about who can give them more money, and who had the best family to support them in the future (completely about benefits)

After the girl is married away, there's either support from her family and she remains close with them, visiting and staying in touch, sometimes giving support when they are in trouble.
But her new family takes precedence over her birth parents. She must call her in-laws father and mother.

The younger boys, on the other hands, are given properties and money to give them the opportunity to create their own family and household.
If too poor, after paying the dowry for the wife, the boy may live in his parent's place until he saved up enough money to leave.

But it's the eldest son that is expected to look after the parents, care and provide for them as they grow older (doesn't mean the parents doesn't work anymore)
So it is expected that they live in the same house.

The relation between in-laws and wife is either the in-laws support and care for the wife (if she has suitable character or connexions) or one of servitude (if the wife is meek or doesn't have anything to show for herself), forcing her to work, do chores, and take care of her husband's parents.
Read cases of a girl marrying to a lower family, but instead of being filial to her new parents, she bosses around and take things into her own hands, completely reversing the traditional relationship between parents and daughter in law.
But if she doesn't possess that strength of character and have backers, she doesn't have much prestige in the family, at least until she gives birth to a son.
If a wife gives birth to a girl as her first child, there's disappointment, but it's still a happy event.
However, if she gives birth to a son, she gains a higher authority in the family. She can be cared and respected in her family, even if she doesn't have anything to support her apart from her son.
Sons are always desired more, since they bring more value to the family.

So, Chinese society isn't about emotions, it is built on top of values. Filial duty on top of them. Then comes the responsibility towards one's country, and community.
But what about caring for one self or for one's wife? Is there no concept of working to achieve one selfish happiness or to make one's wife happy.
There doesn't seem to be much emotions involved, only tradition.
I'm surprised that there is the concept of filial piety, but no filial love. Same with siblings. Society doesn't expect you to love your family, but you still have to work to provide for them.
Does tradition replace thoughts? I would think so since scholars were sent to be re-educated in farms, while farmers were considered as more important.
It doesn't ask you to think about what's good about your family or your country, you just need to do everything you can to help them. Since you're young you're taught to respect them without understanding why. It's more about indoctrinating than understanding. That's just how things are and it isn't required for you to understand their essence, only remember and follow their precepts.

 

Yep. Don't know what else to add, but someone living their culture could add more.

 

I think you have a lot of mixed stuff in there. Read Fei Xiaotong's From the Soil. People are people.

 

sterotypically i suppose?

but aren't people starting to get more mordernise and challenging the ways of old?

 

Most of those values are still held today, even if less strongly.

 

I'm not referring to current China society. I'm talking about how life was in the past, especially during the cultural revolution 1966-1976.
How a different society (not western) worked

 

Hmm, what I forgot to talk about was widows.
How they were forced to work and nurture their children with their own hands, while caring for the elderly in the house.
How they were seen by society, how they were treated, and if you were a widow while pregnant, why it was better to abort the pregnancy to remarry than give birth to the child.

 

BTW, have you read confucian before?

i feel like what you've just mention is the structure of it.
but people are alive, we have emotions, thoughts and beliefs. we are ever changing.

 

sure kinda weird tho~

that's it~
communist party modified it to ensure governing smoothly~

 

Dude's Chinese, of course the old man knows best.

 

No I didn't read Confucius before. Will add it to my reading list, thank you.

 

oh. well... yeah its different.
most of Asia has a somewhat similar structure tho....

oh ya, do they still have the originals? hmmm.....
well, if you were to not take in their additional brainwashing stuff...
example...
like just some of the base. how the husband respects the wife and vice versus, how the children respects the parents and how the parents treats the kids. how the young respects the elderly and vice versus and more.

......
....
.huh?

Confucius wrote about things and they named his teachings after him.

 

dunno~ I know Confucian because I interested on ancient china history

 

Eh, Confucianism caused the oppression of women in China for over two thousand years.

 

....... -_-|||

 

http://factsanddetails.com/china/cat3/sub9/entry-5562.html#chapter-0

 

No it is not. China and many countries had a certain strong patriarchy way before confucianism.
Confucius said "a king should be worthy of a king, a subject be worthy of a subject, a parent worthy of a parent and the kid worthy of a kid", giving the importance of each role and that people should do what they should be doing by their position. He never said women were lower or whatever. Moreover, he was raised by his mother who supported him during times of great difficulties when he was a child.
And even before the birth of confucianism, the "patriachy" started as men were out to the field or hunting for the subsistence of the family while the women were at home raising their child and managed the internal affairs. It's also more due to the history of heir and wars that made men in a more predominant position in the society cuz men became rarer during conflicts, etc etc (accepted and "decided" not just by men but by women as well since it was the cultural belief and traditions among the society in pratically all countries in the world)

Moreover, many text over Conficius were not even written by him but rather a collection of his disciples (likes the disciples of Jesus with the verse in bibles, etc) writting about what he said, etc etc.
Even like Platon writting about what Socrates said (while Socrates never wrote anything at all cuz IIRC he never believed wisdom would come from writting but only transmissible through the oral form, mouths to ears).

 

In Confucianism, a woman should obey her father before marriage, her husband after marriage, and her son as a widow after her husband's death.

I am not sure about you but that seems to imply that a woman's role in society is to obey men. Furthermore, according to this, a single mother is not allowed to remarry. Of course, this is a given with how society was back then, but can you imagine telling that to a single mother in today's society?

I think you're mistaking Mencius for Confucius.

I can accept that. However, it might not have been his intention but the results of his teachings certainly did a number on women in China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_and_imperial_China#Song_dynasty

 

Nothing that you wrote has much to do with the Cultural Revolution. The old ideas had already been repudiated after the Communist takeover in 1949, and even before then they were already in tatters. The Cultural Revolution said that it was about getting rid of the old China, but it was mostly a political powerplay, and one that didn't fundamentally change how Chinese society worked.

Also it's worth noting that Confucius' ideas weren't wholly adopted by China until the Tang Dynasty, and the Tang Dynasty saw women wield the most power of any Chinese era. As said above, most of the ideas that controlled how women were supposed to behave were part of Chinese culture long before Confucius was born. Indeed, much of what he wrote was about the importance of living life according to the customs and etiquette of the time (Zhou custom).

Still, I'm not a fan of Confucianism, and it really did cause a lot of endemic problems for China. But I think this was more about crowding out competing ideas more so than how it proscribed bad advice.

 

Confucius was child of a concubine of an old noble (which rank was at the bottom of the nobility) who past away 3 years after his birth. Confucius himself was a plebeian in a sort and thus why many of his disciples were also in majority commoners rather than nobles or rich merchants. Confucius also revealed that when he was young, he had to do a lot of "humble" jobs (degrading jobs) and it is known how he and his mother had a rather hard life.

Actually, Confucius himself rarely talked about women except once he said something like "only women and servants are hard to handle/deal with. keep them close and they are insolent but keep them far and they will have hatred towards you".
(taking from korean text but in chinese, it is: 子曰, 唯女子與小人爲難養也。近之則不孫, 遠之則怨)

Moreover, you have to take into account that Confucius is over 2500 years old.
And between Confucius (551~479 BC) and the Song dynasty (960~1279), there's a huuuuuge gap.
You have to take into account that
1. Books about confucius and the confucianism were collections of what was written by his disciples and other confucianists
2. Derivation of Confucianism over time (many interpretations, etc etc). Just think of the big religions. Be it Buddhism (Theravada, Mahayana, Vajrayāna, etc etc), christanism (catholics, protestants, orthodoxe, etc with all the separation and schisms, etc) or Islamism (Chiites and Suniites, etc). Even among confucianists, there's different interpretations, additions of new ideas over time.
3. Geographical or historical derivation. With time or space, everything can be changed due to cultures, traditions, conflicts and such.
So the confucianism in China, Korea and Japan will not have the same form and even less when there's different history between each country. Everything is influenced by wars or new cultural revolution, etc. But confucianism itself was not the "patriarchal" ideology but simply used as excuses as much as religions or ideologies are and were used as excuses in doing many things in life and in History.

"Patriarchy" is and was "natural" in a way when the society divides roles and the men are the protectors and providers of the family. Same for the animals. Depending on the roles, animals can be as well matriarchal and not patriarchal at all. But then only in the modern society it is seen as unfair as the women are becoming more active economically and socially.

I'm not saying either one is bad or good. There are indeed unfair things everywhere but it's not pushing an agenda of axis to the opposite side (saying xx is bad, is evil, is the origin of evil, etc etc) that things will be solved. It's by finding a consensus, talking and helping each other that things will get better.
People deserve respect for what they do and not what they are.
No women and no men deserve my respect if they are not deemed as worthy.