Can harem worshippers and reverse-harem lovers co-exist?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Sutad Aatma, May 16, 2021.

?

What kind of novel do you read?

  1. harem only

    7 vote(s)
    11.3%
  2. reverse-harem banzai

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  3. I swing both the ways

    4 vote(s)
    6.5%
  4. Neither! We only stan true romance between two people

    13 vote(s)
    21.0%
  5. Peh! Romance is trash

    4 vote(s)
    6.5%
  6. Who cares as long as the plot is good ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    31 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Sabruness

    Sabruness Cultured Yuri Connoisseur

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    I'm not talking about R-18, i'm talking about all those ridiculous CN reverse harems and a lot of JP reverse harems though, to paraphrase you, not that i've really read any so just my biased impression from seeing synopsis and reviews on novels.
     
  2. Lissi

    Lissi 『Queen of Lissidom』『Holy Chibi』『Western Birdy』『⚓』

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    Then... what does this comment mean?

    How is this not R-18? >.>;;
     
  3. Sabruness

    Sabruness Cultured Yuri Connoisseur

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    Because just because they think with their dicks doesnt mean they actually get to use them. unless you're having trouble with the meaning of the euphemism itself? in which case:
    It means all they can clearly think about is whatever girl they've fallen into delusion over and thus do things that anyone in their right mind (in their novel world) wouldnt do. for examples, see: otome game reverse harems.
     
  4. Shiroikaze42

    Shiroikaze42 Well-Known Member

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    I'm feeling really conflicted now; I'm not interested in arguing, but I want to hear more of your musings on straight female relations. I don't suppose you could keep going unprompted?

    This happens so much in the otome game reverse harems. It's aggravating, but it really grates on my nerves when the author writes the characters this way with no self-awareness of how ridiculous it is.
     
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  5. Sutad Aatma

    Sutad Aatma Well-Known Member

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    Ah I see, alice who has gone down the rabbit hole hm
    did you ever escape the hole or are you still down there exploring new things?
     
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  6. NightmareSeller

    NightmareSeller Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about others, but personally I'm interested in both genres. But that doesn't mean that I can accept the harem dynamics represented by most stories on NU written by authors who either are totally clueless what real harem or reverse-harems are for and how they operate [Well, there is also a possibility that the authors are not mentally retarded and are just following the trend so they can gather more readers, sigh!]
    Actually, I don't get why they don't use the historical dynamics as a reference, they are way more exciting to read than these brainless stories. [Seriously, other than wish fulfillment, I can't find any other reason why any reader can accept them (I mean the genre cliches)]
    In hope of the day the harem genre evolves and uses its true meaning
    "In the game of harem, you either die (because of the harem) or die (not because of harem)"
    it looks like you've got no idea what "real harems" historically and culturally are made for [I know you're talking about the genre and its tropes but needless to inform you the birth of genre is from the "imagination" of those who hared something but didn't see the real thing]
    For your information, being a harem master is a super high-risk occupation. The probability of you being cheated on is so high that you need to try any means to separate your harem from any male creature, Aka eunuchs. and this is only to decrease the chance of being named the father of children that aren't yours. [Why do you think they needed to keep a list of when the guy went to whom and such, even the most magnificent of rulers may have been succeeded by those who weren't of their blood by the result of their most beloved woman cheating on them. [Love and hate are the two faces of the same coin so sorry, to inform you, capable men are attracted to capable women, those who can shoulder responsibility along with them not the vase for the decoration. If you check the important harem member of important historical figures you can feel and see that all these women are their mate's support. They had lots of skills and most of them were the sword, dagger, and poison holders, master of coins, and the shadows behind political movements. Your husband is on a campaign, your child is an infant, go look and see how they protect their house and family. Such women, gather them in a crowd and don't forget their pride and ask them to stay in the back garden and wait for your love? Bro, your occupation is super high-risk. So, the harem must be balanced, women of the harem must never be allied together or the harem master will lose his hair. All he relies on to put these women in check are each other. So a peaceful harem is not sth. that any harem master wants and no harem member will show their alliance with the other women of the harem. So, yes the chaos of harem is always half true and half false. And let me tell you Homo relationships in harems are completely common. No one talks about but they do exist. So, yep, Your wife and wife who always are pitting each other in front of you may have a love/hate relation that you will never understand before being killed by them and your legacy falling in the hand of the child of who knows who. And there is a popular saying meaning "Legitimate children go to (look similar to) their maternal uncle". The origin of this sentence is the fact that you need a successor to fight politically for your clan and family, and males that can visit you normally, ding you got it your brother, father, uncle, etc. It's not about having romantic feelings for your brother, just the necessarily mean to survive. And yes, eunuchs who keep some of their functions after being castrated are also popular, and the most important part, your husband's sons. Yep, seduce the underage child of your husband and your deadly rivel. Get a child. Get rid of your husband's and rivel child. Put your husband's grandchild on the throne. (I don't know if the harem master will prefer this approach cause at least the blood of the clan is in the successor's vain? Don't know, what do you think?) And well there are your husband's brothers and so on... Ahem, it's not that I'm crooked but these are historical facts sorry ] and When a good candidate to succeed you is in hand you are most probably murdered so, congratulation you are dead.

    In a lion group, the ones who hunt and feed the children and raise them are the mothers. The male lions are just for support. Human society is the same, after all, we are the same mamels. It's the survival of the fit, harems weren't made for pleasures [Well, partly] but as a social and political mean, you get the best successor who's fit to inherit between the children [Some times the day of a new emperor's enthrones meant the day that 20 infant coffins of his toddler brothers were brought out of the palace] and also a balance of the power between the clans, today's mother is from the left party tomorrows successor's mother is from the right, overall the monarch is somehow the descendant of all.
    Even today, having multiple wives is allowed in my society, and even in the family, you are completely mistaken to think that multiple wives are vase and replaceable in the country they are calculative. Let me ask you there are two men who have the exact same situation but if you marry the first one you are the only one but the second one has another wife, which one you choose?
    Surprise, surprise, the answer is not the first one but includes a condition, what is the social and economic standing of the first wife? Why it is? That's simple, half-brothers are also brothers and your father's wife is also your mother, it is completely common for two families to decide to marry their daughter to the same man so the two families can marge. And there is also the concept of milk mother, meaning that a woman who feeds a child three times and doesn't receive any money or rewards for it is culturally that child's mother, with the rights of the mother. That woman's children are your siblings even if you don't share a single drop of blood and it will not be broken until the end of time. So, yep, the definition of family is different from culture to culture [meaning you can be someones's 3/4 sibling fun?] and lawfully have two or more mothers. And, another point that I should mention, no one is a love-brain, I live with you cause I love you, is the thing that even 3-year-old children laugh at. Ok, marry for love but don't mess your life. So, yep, being a harem member is a choice, and yes there are girls that because of their family conditions were forced to marry into a harem, but in another way, if there was someone powerful enough to marry them, not the same high as the harem master, to the point were the marriage is not as beneficial as not marriage and owning a favor to their lover. Then again, some may say that women are treated as commodities, well, the answer is yes and no. No matter with which level they entered the harem, whether slaves or a high-ranking lady, the winner is the fittest. Isn't it just like that in modern society? The money, the power, and all go to the winner.

    So, the bro, who said harem members are replaceable. Sorry, to inform you but "behind every successful man there are women who are controlling the scene" and the ones educating the children are their mothers, the ones fighting for their success are their mother, and the ones who make them kill and hate their harem master father are their mother and the ones who tramp on the statue of wives and indirectly women are also their mother. There is a saying that the true love of every mother is their son and vice versa, its not about the romantic feeling but familia feelings. And a part of the reason women don't give a damn about their harem master husband as long as their benefits are safe and why we've got historical, terrible fight and dislike of mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law.

    If you ever started a harem, remember this advice never let your harem member rise your child, because every time you are with others the mother will complain, and slowly your child comes to resent you, your ending will be the completely familiar ending of having a football time of children who all hate you and worship their mothers. So, you paid for their growth but you are considered as air, then you are old and think of this time starting a family and raising a child, you probably choose a beautiful and controllable young girl, get your old age child who is younger than your grandchildren, you try to feel the feeling of being a father and love the child deeply, then the resentment of your other children grows then you are killed by your children, who hate and resent you and you swear to never trust any woman to raise your children and die of anger before their murder method succeed.
    Abandon a harem member who has a child, ding, a new enemy. Abandon a harem member who has skills and a clan, ding, a new enemy, abandon a harem member who is beautiful but that's all, ding, you've added a bunch of new deadly enemy, as everyone [Not only, friends or enemy, but also your mother, wives, and children] to train a bunch of brainless and controllable beauties who will blow in your ears day and night others meaning, a bunch of powens.
    Conclusion: Harem masters look cool but they are waiting for a lonely elderly time or murder by those who they have fed. No matter what, abandoning the members of a constructed harem is deadly, so just don't start one. Women of the harem are not your brainless lovers, but deadly weapons that you work hard to feed and can never make them satisfy, even if they are love-brains love will become hate. So, you are a fat sheep that everyone wants a piece of meat from. Congratulation, you are a "happy" and "fortunate" harem master and your harem member are replaceable.

    Sidenote: The situation of men being scared of women raising their children is so served that even men having one wife do every possible thing to let someone other than their wife and any creature related to her raising children. It's kind of psychologically deadly, situation as the children are bombarded by the deadly life question of "Do you love your father or your mother?"
     
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  7. Fluffums

    Fluffums 【R-18 Researcher】【Seeker of Moe】

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    I don't mind reverse harem in the sense of a bunch of men competing over a woman who can't decide throughout the story. When it comes to a reverse harem ending, it's just hard to imagine. I think it would only work if all of the men had NTR fetishes and 'enjoy' the idea of their woman being impregnated by another man, because otherwise 9 months of your woman carrying the child of another man and them flirting with each other would cool off your passion for sure. It would be difficult enough for women even without the physical limitations that a reverse harem has in that aspect, just with the emotional aspect of the husband making a child with another woman...

    For this reason, yuri/yaoi should be the most stable (let's ignore mpreg/futa) - it should be easier for everyone to get along with mutual attraction and lack of inheritance dispute. Not 100% stable, but more stable.
     
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  8. Lissi

    Lissi 『Queen of Lissidom』『Holy Chibi』『Western Birdy』『⚓』

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    ...Yeah, I feel like "thinking with their hearts" or "thinking with their emotions" would fit the situation better :blobsalt:

    But if that's the euphuemism, okki I agree~ blobmelt_thumbs
     
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  9. Shiroikaze42

    Shiroikaze42 Well-Known Member

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    Well yeah, that's kinda the whole thing about genuine harems and reverse-harems. They require that either everyone involved is fine with sharing their partner (which also means that they get along, or at least put up with each other), or they're at each other's throats to some degree--up to being murderous.

    Honestly the harem and reverse-harem genre (a bunch of people all chasing after one person who can't make a dang choice) tends to bug me, because the story either has to go nowhere, or conclude with the relationship we all expected from the get-go.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
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  10. Sabruness

    Sabruness Cultured Yuri Connoisseur

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    yes, that is the euphemism. packs more of a punch that way. Also, the connotations are negative whereas the alternatives you mentioned can have positive connotations.
     
  11. ListlessCat

    ListlessCat ࿈༼The Anarchic Witch༽࿈ ⦑⤉notsoGoody Good Shoes⤈⦒

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    Im too tired to read all your debates and own piece .
    But my answer to the topic is... maybe??
    I mean they like to have a group of lovers.. different only in gender
     
  12. Sutad Aatma

    Sutad Aatma Well-Known Member

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    smh modern day harems are extremely forced and unrealistic. If you are want technology to exist, it is better to use a fantasy world where polygamy with more than 2 wives is common.
    Also , I almost missed your spoiler but after reading it, it makes sense. being harem master is high risk job cause potential enemies rise by a lot
    Reverse harem dont have to worry about it loll cause only one mother to raise the kids lol
    They only have to worry about the men not blackening and killing other members haha
     
  13. Lois.

    Lois. ❲.❳ ❲woh.❳

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    Looool I mean. Harems, reverse harems can be interesting if but it's kind of a turn off usually more than is it a + in the story because the love interest just usually ends up being some kinda plot armour for the mc (since MLS or fmls are some godly or rich being something like that in some novels) rather than them being a romantic partner persay esp when the harem is just crowded with a bunch of people. In the end though I still think that as long as the harem is well executed that's good enough. Y'know.
     
  14. NightmareSeller

    NightmareSeller Well-Known Member

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    LoL. You are wrong, being a reserve harem master is ten times more dangerous than being a harem master.
    This includes both the physical health aspect (Common, accept it, it's much unhealthier for a female body to accept different males' body than for a male.) and the emotional aspect is much messier [ Truth be told in most of the real polyandrous systems, although it's a single female who seemingly [at least in the eyes of some writers and readers] has a reserve harem and are enjoying a blessing, in truth the dominant powers are still the males and the female body is a means to keep the unity between them and solves the matter of inheritance and distribution of resources.] and in the system where the female truely is the domain, heheh, history and their endings speaks for the nightmare.
     
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  15. Sutad Aatma

    Sutad Aatma Well-Known Member

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    oof dangers all around
    no one is safe in a harem
    its like an extremely volatile situation that could go off in a moment
     
  16. Professional_lurker

    Professional_lurker Well-Known Member

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    Well, as long as they are well executed I don't really mind either way, but when it comes to polygamy in novels it is quite easy to develop in a "gotta catch em all" kind of situation, which might become a turnoff... Except when I am horny, than sadly harems become much more appealing.:oops::oops::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed:
     
  17. XXOOMEPLS

    XXOOMEPLS [Professional NEET] [Example of Cringe] ⚓️

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    Ngl when I think of Reverse Harem I always think of g*** ***g.
     
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  18. Fictionaddiction

    Fictionaddiction Well-Known Member

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    I hate harems because the women are usually very annoying they only appear in the story to be a rescued from a kidnapping or to tell the MC not to fight every paragraph , or to give him her family inheritance or power because he's the MC. . They have no personalities and are very disposable.

    As for Reverse Harem : The one where there are many guys all thinking the MC is interesting because she is cool or told them 1 line that they really needed to hear. It's not that deep , but I don't hate it. I like the idea of being liked by everyone and the MC chooses 1 in the end. I hate the disappointment of others + the story isn't all that deep but it's not detestable for me as Harems.

    For me the equivalent of Harems would be Polyandry not Reverse harems.
    That is when the woman ends up with many partners . And to me that is sickening as much as harems are. Because I always feel sorry for that one guy who is a slave or gets treated badly by the MC or how they're not treated equally or how she couldn't care less if one of them sacrifices or dies.
    And they all love her for she is a great ruler or holds power or whatever.

    So in conclusion for me Harems + Polyandry = Unfairness , dispensable brainless victimized love interests.
    Reverse Harem as in all the characters love 1 person then they choose or never really choose but all is peaceful no one gets hurt = Okay, but could be a little shallow with too many characters to focus on.

    End of rant.
     
  19. Nepagear

    Nepagear Well-Known Member

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    I'm fine with both, as long as the story is interesting, doesn't really matter if they screw or they get screwed lol...