Can this replace the need for a World Government?

Discussion in 'Author Discussions' started by AIm21, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    So I have been brainstorming ideas on how to create a Universe where Earth has reach the status of a Type 1.7 Civilization on the Kardashev Scale in the year 2651, but without having a world government like in some other stories where there is unified Government for all humanity on earth before they became a spacefaring civilization to make it easier to write.

    What I came up with is this,
    The Council of Five Celestials and The Constellation of Nations.

    The Council of Five Celestials basically is made up of five country that has military power in space and can enforce ruling on anyone that trespass or do business in their territory they control in outer space.
    You could think of them as the future verison of the UN security council and each one of them could be consider a modern day superpower like the USA.

    The five countries that makes up the Council of Five Celestials are...

    The United Federation of America.

    The Second Imperial Han Empire.

    The Soviet Union of Socialist Nations.

    The Constitutional Republic of Bharata.

    The Western and Central European Union.

    While the Constellation of Nations are basically all other nations not consider one of the five Superpowers, but they can still own and control land in space with the caveat of them either needing to apply for protectorate status to one of the Five Superpowers or forming an Alliance with them to have more sovereignty over their territory in either outer or interstellar space. So you can consider these guys the rest of the members from the UN.

    How this developed is due to the fact their wasn't any techological singularity as AGI or Artificial General Intelligence wasn't able to advance to become Artificial Super Intelligence by themselves like people had thought it was the case before.

    Technology thought capable of uniting the world wasn't able to as Virtual Reality cause more social issue then solve as people just shut themselves in their own personal bubble of reality.

    And WW3 happened, but didn't kill everyone as Nuclear Weapons has been render ineffective as of late in the later part of the 21st century.

    While Global Warming also happen and so people decided to just search for more planet to inhabit while using future technology to make the earth more livable later for other humans.

    So my vision of the future is neither an Utopia nor Dystopia, but more in the middle as their are many bad and good things that happen for the last 600 years like... Six different World Wars of different scales as techology continue to progress.

    So if the future were to develop like this would there not be a need for a World Government in a story like mine?
     
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  2. AtratusImperator

    AtratusImperator Well-Known Member

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    If thats how you want the story to go it will go like that. There are lots of stories with multifaction space level tech civ.
     
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  3. venu101

    venu101 Well-Known Member

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    Six world wars and the world still survives? And also regular ballistic missile technology is somewhat compromised by modern air defense systems but hypersonic systems for delivery are being made so I'm not sure how they remain ineffective.
    Also I don't think the council mentioned above could hold as other nations would simply start their own alliances to gaina piece of the pie.
    Edit: I would love to read your story when you finish it above is my thoughts though on the matter.
     
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  4. PenguinXeus

    PenguinXeus Just A Penguin, Kigurumi Wakuseijin

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    just one question
    if an alien would like to negotiate with earth, who does the alien negotiate with?
     
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  5. xluferx

    xluferx [The writer who writes for fun][Meme lord]

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    :hmm:
    That's a good question
     
  6. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    They could, but those five nations are the only military power in space, so unless all other nations could unite they will be shot down with ease by any of the five.

    While hypersonic missles are render ineffective using a Nanobot cloud that would form a solid surface in the path of the nuke trajectory once it is discovered and cause the nuke to detonate in the air.
     
  7. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    Probably all five at once.
     
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  8. Bad Storm

    Bad Storm no thought, head empty

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    Probably, the representative of each faction. The council itself should probably have those since five space overlords cannot just exist without proper communication. So let's assume that like UN, each celestial nation (?) has someone to represent their interest.
     
  9. PenguinXeus

    PenguinXeus Just A Penguin, Kigurumi Wakuseijin

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    If that is the case, there a lot of room for opposition to maneuver to cause misinformation and distrust among those five space overlord

    i recommend watching/reading an old anime/novel for reference Banner of Stars and Crest of Stars
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
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  10. Kutaifa

    Kutaifa Pokémon trainer

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    Just for clarification, is the Han empire a monarchy and is the Soviet Union a communist state?

    It would seem unlikely to me that a monarchy and a communist republic could continue to exist so far in the future.
     
  11. Bad Storm

    Bad Storm no thought, head empty

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    That's just the fun part. Any large organisation would always have inside conflicts and tense political undercurrents. It is inevitable with human nature. However, from how OP described it. The situation is stable for now.
     
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  12. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    Technology allowed them to exist with bioengineering to create perfect designer baby for a monarch at the same time surveillance allowed the monarch to monitor the whole country.

    While this is similar for the Communist states, but it is with Robotics that allow the state to function without collapsing.
     
  13. AryaX

    AryaX Less-Known Member

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    Given that many of the AI systems of today are already massively superhuman in their areas of expertise and creating a sort of "virtual cyborg" by combining an AGI system with various narrow SuperAI modules wouldn't be difficult. (unlike with real brains, you don't need to worry about damaging the brain tissues and things like that when adding modules since its all virtual..)

    It seems to me that IF an AGI become reality, no real obstacles to Super Intelligence remain..
     
  14. Kutaifa

    Kutaifa Pokémon trainer

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    So they are basically both hereditary dictatorships that are part of a union of democratic nations that is seeking new land beyond our hemisphere?

    You do realize that allowing two hereditary dictatorships to leave the hemisphere in search of new land would make them extremely imperialistic? Would any democratic nation allow two strong dictatorships to grow on their watch?
     
  15. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but would it be a general super intelligence or a general intelligence that is specialize in a specific field to a crazy degree and can do other things at just average level no different from a human? As that is what humans evolved as from general to specialization while being general or below average in anything else. What I mean by Artificial Super Intelligence is that they can do anything at a level beyond that of a human. While the general and pesudo super intelligence are only around average or has one crazy skill they are great at with everything else being average. So the difficulty is for an AGI to ascend to a True ASI that is like a God inside of a machine and since we never created an AGI yet we don't know how easy it is for an AI to arrive at the next rank and in my universe it is not that easy for an AGI to ascend into a ASI.

    They might not, but hey if they can't beat them than how will they stop them from expanding in the vastness of space? Through War of course and that is one of the reason why there are six world wars throughout this 600 year period from our time to the future. So while those Democratic nations might not like their existence, they are not strong enough to totally stop them either from expanding.
     
  16. Kutaifa

    Kutaifa Pokémon trainer

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    Okay, well if its floats your boat then that's fine.
     
  17. Gitami

    Gitami Well-Known Member

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    Soviet Union of Socialist Republic, is that in South America? Russia is more likely to go fascist than back to socialist, might or might not be ethnic fascist too.
    Meanwhile in S. A. There's a somewhat socialists environment, although there are failures like Maduro and Venezuela which encourages the neighbours to have a conservative direction to stave off which in turn lead to the socialists republic forming once the pendulum swings back left.
    You might also want to glance over Planetes since it touches upon Third World countries in the space age. They are granted opportunity but due to their economic situation or political stability they face quite a hurdle, there's also distaste from ethnic citizen raised elsewhere to their motherlands citizens.
     
  18. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    I think I will write about why it might be difficult for several countries to “own” territory in space.

    If we speak about space itself, like low/high orbit around planets/moons/bodies, it is virtually impossible for any country to own because orbits are constantly in motion. A country like Russia cannot possibly own the airspace above Russia because virtually everything in orbit above Earth will eventually pass over Russia.

    This has multiple implications for military/security.

    The most important one is that unless one power controls 100% of the orbital space over a planet/moon, nothing on the planet is safe from orbital bombardment. It is impossible for two hostile powers to share a single orbit because the entirety of the Earth becomes an active war zone due to the nature of orbits. Every 120 minutes (the period of a rotation in low earth orbit), two enemy fleets will have direct point-blank range fire over the capital cities of enemy countries. Something as crude as dropping a 10 ton tungsten rod from orbit has the kinetic energy of a nuclear bomb from mass alone, and would be difficult to defend against as it is effectively the same as attempting to defend against an meteor thrown at a city when it’s already in the atmosphere.

    Anyways... I think this is the main rationale for why there are typically united planetary governments prior to interplanetary space stuff. You can’t have two hostile powers on the same planet. They will either simultaneously kill each other or one will end up instantly winning and evicting the other nation from the planet. The nation that controls orbital space around a planet has effective domination of the planet.

    Is an alliance possible?

    Well... if all the countries are as friendly with each other as NATO, sure. The military forces occupying the same orbit obviously have to be able to cooperate with each other.

    But if the countries are any less friendly like that, then in all likelihood war will eventually break out and result in at least one country being eliminated.
     
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  19. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    True, if they were trying to own any celestial body in the solar system, but what if instead of owning entire celestial bodies alone. Each power divided up the territory on those celesial bodies they claim?
     
  20. reagents 11

    reagents 11 disaster personified

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    There would still unified forum like the UN for them to set rules and diplomacy. Unless you're already setting them at war with each other.