Flatness is justice ! Makoto is weak against assertive women anyway, so it shouldn't matter as long as Ira push him down aggressively.
Hmm, been a while since I read TLR, gonna need to brush up for that. I can't even remember this Run/Ren is. With regards to the goddesses, I'm actually more interested in Althena. As I said, she's a good girl. I'm especially curious as to what she looks like. Hopefully author will get an illustration of her. Because waiting for her to appear in the manga is going to take forever. That said, Ira is definitely nice. A really good thing about this title is the depth of character. Ira's earlier, more annoying attitude nicely reflects her one-sided rivalry with Noah, but then we get to see her nicer side as well. I'm still thinking that the whole thing about Althena's first love being stolen by Noah has something to do with Makoto. I'm still convinced that she opened up to Makoto way, way too quick for it to simply be something she does normally. But still again, it might be just me. And Makoto's insanity..., I mean dayum, when even Demon Lords think you're insane.... That's definitely some Crazy Awesome cred right there. There is also something to be said about Cain's insanity, in that he's honestly not as insane as the impressions of him earlier. He's certainly single-minded in his devotion to Noah, but once you can get past that, he's surprisingly normal. Or maybe Makoto is just too insane. At the very least, Cain isn't gibbering in his insanity, unlike the people Noah drove insane in the cathedral. Something that draw attention too, is that Iblis is said to be something along the line of reaching the level of a god, or something like that. And then we have Makoto, who is there. There's honestly so much similarity in how Iblis is described with what we've been seeing of Makoto I'm increasingly curious about Iblis.
Makoto looks crazier than Cain. Honestly, I don't think there is much difference between Cain and the Sun Goddess fanatics (like the former Pope Roma Borgia for example). Interesting thought. Wild theory: Perhaps Makoto traveled to the past (+15,000,000 years ago) and met Althena and Noah. Then, Althena fell in love with Makoto, but she was rejected by Makoto because Makoto loved Noah instead. After that, Makoto and Noah promise each other to meet again in the future and Makoto returns to his era. Noah starts a war against the Holy Gods, but she loses and she is imprisoned in the Deep Sea Temple. During the Dark Era, Noah realizes that she was tricked by Typhon, but it is already too late. She falls into despair and is lamenting her own powerlessness. One day, she sees Makoto through her Apostle and regains hope. Then, she begins to scheme her greatest plan to overthrow the Holy Gods by using Makoto.
Hmm, I kinda doubt Noah would even consider "using" someone she feels something for. Still, she might be holding on to him in some way if that's the case. And thus she's less "using" him and more trying to push him into somehow regaining his feelings for her. Still, I do consider Noah as the main heroine. Seriously, she's exactly Makoto's type. The dragon thing is probably not a strict requirement I'm any case, just that something insanely strong is guarding her. With that being said, if he were to be sent that far to the past, he's gonna need to be even more OP since we're talking about an age where the conflict is between gods rather than mortals. I have my own half-joking half-serious theory that Makoto is actually Jupiter's latest attempt to get into Noah's skirt but that doesn't explain Althena, so I dunno. My own theory is still rather half-baked in this regard.
Maybe it is why she gave Makato the ability to sync with Ira and use her divinity. I think she is planning to make Makoto not only stronger than Leviathan, but even stronger than most of Gods. Once Noah is freed, Makoto won't have any utility in her plans to overthrow the Holy Gods unless Makoto is as strong a god. Noah does have some feelings for Makoto (see LN Volume 1 epilogue), but we will need her POV to be able to empathize with her and to understand her thoughts and goals. Lol Leviathan in others LN/WN/Manga is considered as some kind of a sea dragon, so Noah is really Makoto's type. In fact, it is just that the monster guarding Noah must be cool, powerful and majestic.
More or less agreed on all points. As regards to strengthening Makoto, at the very least Ira has confirmed that the brand Noah left on his right arm was indeed what helped him sync with her and make use of her Divinity. That being said, whether by design or merely another result of Makoto-brand strangeness remains to be seen. One possibility I consider is this : the brand itself contains Divinity (this is confirmed), there is the possibility that being in contact with Divinity for so long is what enabled Makoto to do the Divinity-Sync stuff, his body essentially have adapted to Divinity. Again, the confirmation we need is whether or not Noah knows what would happen, and what exactly she's planning. I should really get around to reading the LN translation. Does the volumes correspont to the WN's arcs? So Vol 1=Arc 1 and so on? On an unrelated note : Reading all the earlier convos, it really makes me regret not looking for this thread and joining earlier. Now to wash away my regret, I'll be throwing things to the discussion regardless if they've been discussed to a conclusion or not before. So I'll just throw this thing here. Part analysis, part recap, mostly bait for people to maybe fill me in on stuff that has been discussed related to this even as I trawl the earlier pages. And if they haven't been discussed, maybe to generate discussion, here goes. Spoiler: Makoto's love interests, Wall of text incoming Or maybe not, let's try nested spoilers Spoiler: Sasaki Aya Pretty much Makoto's first love interest, his first and ongoing crush. Also the only proper Yan of the lot, born from an unrequited crush with a tragic end, nurtured by a horrific post-reincarnation life. To her, Makoto is basically the last vestiges of a happier past, and the only promise for a happier future. Is it any wonder that she says heavy things like "I want to be with Makoto forever"? On the other hand, she at least have a proper rein on her Yan side. She's not the kind of Yan who will deny any other girls in Makoto's life or anything, she just don't want to be separated from Makoto ever again, no matter the opposition. I.e as long as she's with Makoto, whoever else is with him doesn't matter to her. Spoiler: Noah Exactly Makoto's type. Also the one with the greatest effect on him all his life. She's the only one who reached out to him while he was alone and abandoned, basically bullied by the entire rest of the world. Right now, we know that this is basically her MO for recruiting followers (see Cain), but on the other hand, that doesn't invalidate the good she did for those she reached out to. Really, had she not reached out to Makoto when she did, telling him the things he needed to hear, I won't be too surprised if Makoto went full-tilt towards the Noose End. Most likely scheming something, considering the talk with the Titan Old Man. Or does she? She only said that she'd make the Olympians cry after all, nothing else is really shown. And this bears mentioning : the author has shown a clear love for subverting expectations. Spoiler: Lucy Makoto's first love interest in the Isekai (there is no name for it, so that's what I'm going to call it). Fell for him and does her level best to get through his thick skin (Makoto doesn't really fall for any of the girls, save arguably Noah). Very insecure at the start, not least of which is due to her ineptitude despite her apparent talents, a complete opposite of Makoto. Thanks to that insecurity, she more or less defer to Makoto in everything that matters. A notable mindset of hers completely unlike most people is how high she seem to rate proficiency, likely caused by Makoto constantly overturning expectations because of his insane proficiency. Still not averse to flaunting her skill to get annoyances off her back though. Has the Great Mage skill, related to which I see someone stating earlier that it only gives her affinity for the four elements (thus presumably the Fire, Earth, Water and Wind combo) which is indeed what it was claimed to do. And yet, that doesn't explain how she can use Teleport since she doesn't have Destiny Magic either, so further confirmation needed. Spoiler: Mary Unfortunately, not in the WN version. Or at least not explicitly though she expresses clear interest, complete with inviting Makoto for a night. Has been taking care of him since Stone Rank. Probably fell for his work ethics, being the first to notice Makoto's 100% success rate. Notably the only one radiating ara-ara energy. Spoiler: Sofia Princess of Rozes, making her first appearance as a stuck-up bitch in need of a slap or three. In reality a diligent girl under a lot of pressure. Has a bad habit of evaluating people with a glance and coldly throwing out the ones she doesn't consider as having made the cut, which doesn't help her first impressions. Under even more pressure when the people she's chosen turn out rotten for the most (if not entire) part. Her relation with Makoto was catalyzed by his rescue of her (more-or-less, Makoto would insist he's just getting her help out of a bad situation) with the attendant casual synchronization to use her Monarch-ranked Ice Magic. An analysis of how she felt afterwards can be put forward as follows : first, she's surprised by how Makoto overturned her negative evaluation of him by effectively incapacitating a Taboo Giant over a short time, then Makoto's easy forgiveness likely made her feel even worse about herself (besides such generosity, her earlier pettiness become all the more glaringly noticeable), all this comes to a head when she's finally informed by Eir that Makoto is Noah's Apostle, which touches on a really sore point that is her earlier refusal of Makoto's request to be Eir's follower, causing her to break down during a date in Symphonia. Eir then used that opportunity to push her onto Makoto, culminating in their eventual engagement later during Makkaren's crisis. Currently the most vehement about becoming the legal wife, though that is likely to be shaken if Anna were to be brought into the present. Or if Momo had anything to say about it. Spoiler: Janet Gera's little sister, and the most recent (temporally) addition to the harem. Considering how recent she is, there isn't much development between her and Makoto yet, save her direct and unrestrained approach to Makoto. Actually won over Sofia's friendship in the short time they interacted in context of Janet wanting in with the group. Probably the girl with the weakest impression due to the lack of time to build her up, still, has potential. Spoiler: Furiae At first crushing on Sakurai. Made Makoto her Guardian Knight out of curiosity. Another one whose reliance on direct judgement on people's worth (using Fate Magic to see their threads, which Makoto apparently has none) gets turned on its head over and over. Reliant on her Charm Magic for her survival, which worked even against Sakurai under favorable conditions, basically broke down when Makoto proved himself completely immune, fueling her curiosity. Her eventually falling for Makoto is mainly caused by Makoto treating her well despite his complete immunity to her charm, as well as him consistently refusing to go along with her foresights. Started out badly misanthropic, she's getting better with Makoto's influence. Very depressed when Makoto 'died' saving her from Alexander, too depressed to even be suicidal. Rarely refers to people by name, prefering titles to keep herself from developing attachments. Thankfully, we have no Inuart to muck things up here. Spoiler: Ira Another goddess, as well as another one who started out with a rotten first impression. Deeply dislikes Noah, yet completely powerless against her, which is likely what drove her into bullying Makoto when they first met by outing him as Noah's Apostle (basically an attempt to bully Noah by proxy). That deed would have dire consequences later during the Alexander incident. Has been assigned as basically Makoto's helper ever since by Althena. Has absolutely nothing she can give to Makoto in reparation for said earlier misdeed, which is a likely fuel for any developing feelings not unlike Sofia. Another victim of Makoto's casual synchronization, though author has been onboard saying that it didn't affect her like Sofia because she's not badly outclassed in proficiency like Sofia was. Has tried to make Makoto convert to her multiple times, the last time she passed it off as a joke and Makoto accepted it as such, but was it really? Spoiler: Althena The Goddess, and one with the unique achievement of having a rotten impression even before she made any appearances. Made out to be an absolutely tyrannical queen bitch with no tolerance for rule breaking, yet actually very conscientious and more often than not keeping up a facade. In a lot of ways, Sofia but divine. With that being said, her apologizing so earnestly to Makoto the first chance she got was apparently unexpected even for her sisters, among which Ira having shown clear fear of her, so maybe the impression hold some truth and Makoto is an exception, something to find out later. Apropos of nothing : my favorite among the goddesses, with Noah. I have a soft spot for people who can admit mistakes as earnestly as she did. Spoiler: Momo Eventually the Great Sage. The loli to Makoto's badass. Has memories of him ever since they first (for Makoto) met during Sakurai's hunt for the Taboo Dragons. Completely unsubtle with regards to holding Makoto to a different standard than other people. Has a scary reputation Makoto never seem to care for. In the past, twice-rescued by Makoto. Also Makoto's disciple (to his confusion), and deeply smitten thanks to the twice rescue. Considers Anna a rival, their relationship is rather similar to Aya and Lucy in some regards. Dismissed Makoto's claims of 'having lovers' as delusional because a virgin can't have a lovers, plural (you wish), thus causing her and Anna to push on becoming Makoto's lovers in the past. Spoiler: Another Past Lover Anna/Abel (Annabel) : definitely childhood friends, in the sense that you are your best friend, and you are always with yourself, certainly all throughout childhood and beyond. More seriously, such constitution explains the need to make one of them disappear even in the original history without Makoto's intervention : it's way too suspicious for the two of them to never be seen together. Seems to identify mainly as female, with her female Anna form being the one she seem most comfortable with, including reverting to it while recuperating. Not a case of multiple personalities, there is only one person in there, just calling herself Anna when female, Abel when male. As of the new timeline, is essentially head over heels for Makoto, though often exasperated by his eccentricities, and somewhat afraid of his Clear Mind 100% self. Not merely a double-skill cheat, but a triple-skill cheat with Oracle, Lightning Hero, and Light Hero all rolled into a single person. Was down, damn near broken, and deeply insecure when Makoto found her (as Abel), Makoto being essentially her only support in a world gone mad. In a lot of ways, her life story is like Sakurai's earlier story with Makoto's rescue. Author has apparently said there are methods to bring her to the present? Though the implications are likely still unclear. Spoiler: Mel Makoto-san's Dragon MILF Unsure why I even put her here, maybe I just need to get that joke out. But in all seriousness, I want her in the harem too dammit! On another unrelated note, I notice there's no TVTropes page for this yet. Someone do something!
@archeisse You should add that Ira is the one who gets along with Makoto the most. Their chemistry is the best and unmatched in the story. I remember that Ira pushed down Makoto and tried to make him lick her feet. Then, Makoto said "Kuh, kill me !" like a woman in a ero doujin like Aya and Lucy were talking about. It was hilarous. Yeah, arc 1 =volume 1 and so on. Arc 10 will probably be an exception with how long it is.
How I wish Althena would be next target list of joining on makoto harem but still can't confirm it. The MILF dragon hmmm although i love to if she join but there's too..... Nvm... Ara Ara... @archeisse But what about Eir, although she has quite a few appearance in the story but will she has high chances of being heroine, if I remember correctly she is the second goddess who had skinship with makoto, why she is out. Maybe because Ira has Increased her popularity..... Hmmm.... Or maybe because of her personality and the bondage Illustration that's why i want her more than Ira to join become candidates of makoto love. No offense on Ira's Fan....
Thanks, i had a hard time remembering them due to my studies. And reading it, i kinda find out most of Makoto's lovers are bigshots,ain't it. Reminds me of Miyama Kaito whose strength mostly came from connections.
True, except that Makoto is useful in battle. The harem gives Makoto a lot of political power. I would like him to receive a true blessing that would make him powerful like in the novel you just mentioned. Something like this: [By my name—- By the name of Noah—– I tell the Spirits.] [That this person—– Takatsuki Makoto—- is one I acknowledge worthy of my blessing.] [Therefore—– By my name—– By the name of Noah—– I command the Spirits.] [Oh, Spirits—- Become the pillar of his freedom] [By my name—- By the name of Noah—– That this one’s name—– That the name of Takatsuki Makoto—– As the one I bestowed my blessings—– To be inscribed in the Spirits—– In conjunction with my name.] [I grant upon you——– the blessing of Spirits.]
@archeisse For the great mage skill, its wood and not wind for Lucy. Chapter 10 for reference. Lucy's skills is probably inherited from Johnny's lineage and her fire skills from her demon father. For teleportation magic, there is really zero requirement other than having large mana pools it seems. The only ones with these large mana pools are elves mostly. Teleportation and destiny magic are two different skills. Lucy could use teleportation, but not destiny magic. Rosalie is also the one who taught her, so she probably used an unorthodox method. I think the best way to think of it is like Moon magic having multiple subcategories like necromancy, hypnosis, charm. Furiae's crush did not happen in the LN. I guess the author got sick of his reader's misunderstanding Sakurai, Noel, Furiae, Makoto's relationship. Mary is the local wife in LN and she did kiss Makoto. So there is hope for Janet. Ira's attempt is a joke. Makoto needs his spirit magic to succeed and she acknowledges that. Spirits do not like the aura from heroes, oracles, etc. Then Mel. Although her English name is probably Helen Meverick (we will see what the author chooses). She's a virgin, but the other dragons call her mother dragon to her dismay. The holy virgin mother dragon. The Sun Cathedral might be named after her rather than Anna or not. Makoto Takatsuki, Izaya Orihara, and other characters like them had normal backgrounds but turned out insane which is refreshing to see. No tragic backgrounds or motives for revenge. Makoto is not the type to think suicidal thoughts, but his actions are reckless with almost zero regard to his sense of danger. It's more likely that if Noah never reached out to him, he might have joined another evil god. To Makoto, it will not matter if the god is good or evil. Although, he did resent the world of the holy goddesses a little bit back then as well as being envious of his classmates.
But Shiro-san is the Mother goddess here, and if i remember correctly, Noah is the youngest Titan god right, so umm, shouldn't her chant be different?
Spoiler: Answer I modified her chant. I replaced the word "world" by "Spirits" and I changed one sentence. The chant of Goddess of Time Chronoa had a similar structure when she bestowed her true blessing, so I think it's fine.
Kay, and it's kinda right now considering the fact that Makoto might become a spirit king at least in name.
There are actually nine attributes if you count spirit magic as one, but eight if you do not. Well I listed them according to what the novel says about them and their main specialty areas. Momo with her great sage skill has 7 affinities (excluding moon magic). Also skills do not appear to be definite limitations. There are loopholes with spirit magic for example. Fire - offense Earth - defense Water - versatility Wind - speed Wood - crowd control Destiny - buffs/auxiliary Moon - debuffs/curses Sun - all-rounder Spirit - strategic weapons
Is it me or Water Magic looks like an inferior version of Sun Magic ? Versatility vs All-rounder. Water magic is really weak. Lowest attack power, average crowd control, average defense, average speed, no buff/debuff. I would also add that Sun Magic is proficient at healing perhaps ?
Actually no. Since most water spells take form as physical objects or creatures to cause natrual phenomenon, or put in simpler terms,physical intervention. The other attribute magic all also the same if you put it that way. While what Sun magic is doing is like manifesting the effect ítelf while ignoring physical intervention.
That's not what i mean. Since water magic should have been classified as elemental magic as a whole with other attributes you can still consider it to be an inferior version of Sun magic, the so-called holy magic.