Question [CN] Differentiating terms that seem similar

Discussion in 'Translator's Corner' started by marchmallow, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. marchmallow

    marchmallow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Reading List:
    Link
    Translating a novel set in ancient China. Terms for aides/advisors/assistants pop up frequently, and after searching through the dictionary, they all seem to mean the same thing.

    师爷 - I've previously translated this as 'advisor' since the character this word is referring to seems to do a lot of... advising. Dictionary says: 'a private assistant attending to legal, fiscal or secretarial duties in a local yamen ; private adviser'
    佐幕 - Just translated this as 'assistant'
    幕僚 - Dictionary says it's an advisor to high officials, but I'm still unsure how to sum it up in one word
    谋士 - Dictionary says it could be a 'skilled manipulator, tactician, advisor, strategist, counselor.' But the paragraph in which this is mentioned didn't specify any tasks. The characters only said they were looking for '谋士', so I'm a little lost
    幕客 - 幕 apparently means curtain, but it's a common character among these words. 客 means guest...
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    Deleted member 125960 likes this.
  2. nyamachi

    nyamachi [Chaos Twin :3] [Melo fanclub member]

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    4,096
    Reading List:
    Link
    师爷 - I found the same definition as you but maybe another translation that might fit better is 'private secretary'

    佐幕 - Based on my understanding, this was an assistant who worked as an administrator in a military branch of government and/or amongst the tents of a commanding officer (which served as their office). My best guess for a translation would be 'Aide-de-camp' but 'administrative officer' or 'staff officer' or 'assistant secretary' might fit better depending on context?

    幕僚 - Maybe you can say 'official aide' to x person or 'x person's aide'?

    谋士 - I'd go with 'strategist' or 'tactician' but I'd need more context.

    My dictionary says that 幕客 = 幕僚 = 幕宾
    Another variant it gives is 幕友 which seems closer in meaning to 师爷

    All the characters paired with 幕 (Office of a commanding general) seem to allude to a closer relationship that you might expect from an aide or close advisor. 'Personal aide' is another translation that might fit.

    僚 (official or associate/colleague)
    客 (guest)
    宾(also means guest)
    友 (friend).

    Hope this helps! I'm not very familiar with military terms but I've seen these titles used in English historical settings.
     
    nonononononono and marchmallow like this.
  3. marchmallow

    marchmallow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Reading List:
    Link
    The 佐幕/师爷 (it's only one person) in the story was basically almost like an assistant/secretary/advisor to a third-rank salt transport envoy, so I'm guessing this has nothing to do with the military. Though this is very helpful. Thanks a lot!
     
    nyamachi likes this.
  4. nyamachi

    nyamachi [Chaos Twin :3] [Melo fanclub member]

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    4,096
    Reading List:
    Link
    Oh in that case, maybe 'aide' or 'personal secretary' might fit better. Happy to help :blobsnow:
     
    nonononononono and marchmallow like this.
  5. Shibb

    Shibb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2018
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    598
    Reading List:
    Link
    Based on memory from reading novels set in different dynasties -

    师爷: this is the personal side the official (usually the judge) hires. If my ancient novels prove true, the official pays him, not the state. This man would follow the official along for life across different states. Also, this term only popped up during/after Qing dynasty.

    佐幕: according to this dictionary, it's either the same as above or the personal side of the general (memory reading novels say this).

    幕僚: Baike said it's referring to the different assistants an official has, like saying "the secretaries" vs "the judicial secretary and the CEO's secretary".

    谋士: advisor on political/government policies. Again, this more of a general term than an actual rank (like above).

    幕客: Retainer. Some translate it to guest because it's similar to 门客, but it literally is retainer. It's a borrowed concept from the West.
     
    marchmallow likes this.
  6. marchmallow

    marchmallow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Reading List:
    Link
    Thanks for this! As for 师爷, your description seems quite accurate as the character followed his master until death. 幕客 I'll use retainer... as for the rest, probably just aides/advisors until more info is revealed.