Discussion CN novels vs Western novels

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by mm38910, Jun 10, 2019.

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  1. mm38910

    mm38910 Well-Known Member

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    How do you think best of the CN novels fare against the top (or good) published western novels? I'm talking about novels like Joy of Life, Ze Tian Ji (with a weaker ending compared to the rest of novel), Renegade Immortal, Pursuit of The Truth, Martial Arts Master, Nightfall.
    Would you say that they are comparable in quality? Do you hold the both in the same standard?
    Edit - For Western novels, I'm talking about the novels that are published and discussed as good or either popular. For ex-Harry Potter, Agatha Christie's works, Dan Brown's works, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  2. perspherspley

    perspherspley IZ*ONE

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    Give an example of Western Novels, and when you say Western Novels was it the one posted in RoyalRoadL or Fanfiction.net?
     
  3. Deleted member 155674

    Deleted member 155674 Guest

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    Which kind of western novels do you have in mind?
     
  4. mm38910

    mm38910 Well-Known Member

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    For western, I would say Harry Potter, mystery novels like Dan Brown's novels. Something along those lines, whatever you think is good and you would fork money for.

    No, I don't use RoyalRoad often. I don't know about the state of novels there. I'm talking about well published and discussed books. I guess Harry Potter is a good example.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2019
  5. Femme Fatale

    Femme Fatale | Sublime Goddess Of Chance |

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    Western Novels tend to want you to experience the story, CN novels, from this narrow subset of Asian novels, tell you what to think....exactly sometimes, with measurements if you are particularly dense. XD

    There's more I could say...but this for starters. :cookie:
     
  6. Shio

    Shio Moderator Staff Member

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    Probably both? Both are webnovels afterall
    Unless OP compared it to published novels (game of thrones, deception point), in which I will just quietly leave this thread alone.
     
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  7. UnknownSaint171

    UnknownSaint171 To Something Sounds Cooler

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    Honestly I still think Western Novels is better. I love CNs but I have yet to meet one that I’m fully satisfied with. That’s why most are called fast-food or junk food, half even trash novels lol. Don’t underestimate western published novels! They are professionals and can get your attention on the first page. Just look at Margaret Peterson or Neal Shusterman.
    Meanwhile in CNs, it always takes time to ponder and you can’t certainly even tell if it’s good till the end.

    I think JP novels are the best though, they are professionals and have their own publish companies. No less then western novels. Chinese novels have yet to reach that level of professionalism
     
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  8. mm38910

    mm38910 Well-Known Member

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    That would be a very tough comparison. but I was mainly asking about how well the top Cn novels like Mao Ni's works or Er Gen's works fare.
    Adding the likes of PMG, MGA only distracted from my question so I removed them.
     
  9. Beste

    Beste Active Member

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    I find Asian webnovels much easier to read. The published western books i tried contains so many descriptions of everything which seems like something a professor would love to read.
     
  10. Warlock Of The Void

    Warlock Of The Void Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is a proper comparison , the western novels u r mentioning r published novels with well editors and publishers , these things r very important because they can take care of the filler . Every CN webnovel is more filler than it is a plot of story , while some r good they r quite literally one in a thousand and even then have lame endings , filler crap , info dumps , u can't compare them to well established novels .
    Edit : A better thing to do would be to compare writing and story styles of western webnovel and CN
     
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  11. Crywolf641

    Crywolf641 Well-Known Member

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    or a book worm.
     
  12. Kaylee

    Kaylee Well-Known Member

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    For me, the above reasons you gave is why I find western novels (w-n) to be unsatisfying even the professional published one (and the one that are included in popular fiction are even worse imo). And why I like chinese novel (c-n)/web novel (c-wn) because it takes time and the end result may not what we suspect.
    With w-n, most of them will have long detail of events and background, like with Grisham's novel, or those like Tom Clancy's, also with w-n they only have one big problem to solve and one final ending at the end of the story. I wont start with western romance novels......While I'm not always confuse of who is the ML/FL in c-n, but in western you'll find them right away. This is also the same formula for the villain, you can point who is the villain in James Paterson novels right that instance LOL

    But, I wont say, every w-n i like that or every c-n is like that. I might be able to say that if I read all the novels available in the world XD

    What i dont like from j-n is the 'herbivore' kinda MC but actually MC is omnivore! You know, where they act xxyears old virgin but get popular suddenly and then goes on with harem cliche.

    Also @mm38910 I think it's better to compare a western web novel to chinese web novel, popular published novel and popular published novel, etc. Itdefeat the facts if we compare a chinese web novel with western published one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  13. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    I think that popular Chinese novels fare pretty well against popular English-language novels. The big caveats are that the books you listed aren't the popular Chinese novels (hint: check out what books actually sell there) and that it's stupidly easy to be better than Dan Brown.
     
  14. SteelKawai

    SteelKawai Well-Known Member

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    Can someone give some examples of interesting western novels? I really cant find some good series. Some Harry potter or Eragon shit is not in my taste. Mb something like Witcher, where mc isnt some stupid boy or mr justice?
     
  15. laststandb

    laststandb Active Member

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    Release frequency of western novels is way to slow.
     
  16. xiazixin

    xiazixin Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say that the novel that you listed as an example are the top novel in the Chinese community, well the top novels wouldn't get translated at least for the next 10 years.
    Its one thing to translate an web novel with simple grammar and character combinations, it's another thing to translate an novel with edits, rewrites and re-edits.
    You took a full team to translates them. The quality of novel relies on the size on the community. Just like how Japanese vocaloid community is better than Chinese while the chinese mmd community is better than the Japanese.
    same as in Chinese translation community are better than the English translation community just because the seer size of the translators and editors.
    Example:
    In the beginning, there was but Void.

    From this void, the old gods were born. Mother Void gave birth to scores of old gods, giving life to the universe and all realities.

    The old gods were fickle, twisted, and brutal things. They had no purity in them, and they sought to shape worlds for their own amusement.

    They created figures in their image, to serve them, and to venerate them. Hundreds of worlds and realities were created, blooming into existence by the hands of the old gods.

    But, they were jealous creatures, and coveted the possessions of others. Ma'tol, firstborn of the Void and Chaos, and most powerful of the old gods, began to covet the prizes of his brothers and sisters of the void.

    He created scores of horrid beasts as his creations. They flooded the newborn worlds in the mad god's attempt to slay his brothers and sisters. The others responded with their own creations, and so began the period of darkness.

    The blood of young life flowed like water.

    The arrogant gods themselves were never harmed, for in their existence, they could not die. They could only be forgotten, but with so much life to create, this would never happen. For eons, the denizens of the worlds labored in pain and death, eternally chained to their masters.

    Then, there was Xiolt-la.

    Xiolt-la, the firstborn of Mother Void and Father Light, Lord of the Gods, Devourer of the Impure, and Savior of Life was born. He was born of the mother's dark power, with the love of his father, and was distant from both. Xiolt-la, born of light and dark, yet never possessing both, was a true god.

    He did not create life.

    He made it perfect.

    He did not seek to twist our minds to serve for him. He only gave us the tools and power that we needed to live in peace and prosperity. He created great tools and gifted them to us, his true people.

    The old gods sought to destroy him for this. They could not comprehend a god such as him. In their twisted hearts, they believed that no god cared for his creations. Xiolt-la, lover of all, did.

    Ma'tol, firstborn of chaos, raised the armies of his creations, and joined with his fellow elder kind, the half-brothers and half-sisters of Xiolt-la, and attacked the Savior with his full power. However, many of his creations abandoned him, to fight for the one who had promised them peace and power to live free.

    But the old gods were powerful indeed.

    For generations, war between Xiolt-la and the false gods raged. Eventually, as it was foretold in the song of time, Xiolt-la and our people prevailed. He challenged Ma'tol, his wicked half-brother, to Roh'i Xifalk. Single combat of the gods.

    They fought. The pure god and his twisted elder brother raged in combat for ten thousand suns, locked in a vicious duel that crossed worlds and space. The force of their blows cleaved mountains, destroyed scores of worlds, and nearly shattered the reality of the universe.

    But, as foretold in the past, Xiolt-la prevailed. He cast down his brother, and cut him down, banishing him and his kind to the realm where forgotten beings and the truly damned lurked.

    Oblivion.

    The Prince of Chaos was not without power, however. Ma'tol cursed his brother as he fell, and with the power of the old gods behind him, this dying curse banished Xiolt-la from our world, preventing him from touching the people that he loved so dearly, and those who loved him so. The minds of the people were cleared of our savior and lord.

    But there are some of us who remember.

    We do not forget our father.

    The king of all mankind has been sealed away. He is returning one day. The false prophets of the old gods and newer heretics alike decry Xiolt-la, and deny the gifts that he gave us. They seek to banish him for all of eternity.

    But we are here.

    We know the truth.

    The Sealed King is returning.

    And when he does, the tide of his wrath will cleanse this world, and when it does, we will be uplifted to his grace.

    起初,仅存虚空。

    虚空中,古神诞生。虚空之母诞下数位古神,将生命给予宇宙和众多现实。

    古神反复无常,扭曲且残酷。祂们并不纯洁,企图塑造供己玩乐的世界。

    祂们以自己的形象塑造人类,为祂们服务并臣服脚底,数以百计的世界和现实被创造出来,经由古神之手盛放。

    但是,祂们乃嫉妒的生灵,觊觎他者的财富。 Ma'tol,虚无混沌的头胎,最为强大的古神,开始觊觎祂兄弟姐妹们自虚空中得来的奖赏。

    祂创造许多野兽,凶猛的造物淹没新生的世界,疯狂的神企图杀死祂的兄弟姐妹,其他人则以自己的造物回应,黑暗时代开始了。

    年轻生命之血如水流淌。

    傲慢的诸神不会受伤,对于此等存在来说,祂们不会死亡,仅可被遗忘。但有如此之多的造物,此事绝无可能发生。对于永世来说,居民在痛苦与死中挣扎,永远与其主人相连。

    此时,Xiolt-la现身。

    Xiolt-la,虚空之母与光明之父的长子,诸神的领主,不洁之神的吞噬者和生灵的救主诞生了。祂因母神的黑暗力量与父神之爱降临,却与二者相去甚远。Xiolt-la诞生于光明和黑暗,却从不拥有二者,此乃真正的神明。

    祂没有创造生命。

    祂做得很完美。

    祂没有试图扭曲我们的想法为祂服务。祂只给了我们和平繁荣所需的工具和力量。祂创造了优秀的工具,把它们赐给我们,祂真正的子民。

    古神们为此企图摧毁祂。祂们无法理解像祂这样的神。 祂们扭曲的心无法相信会有神明照顾祂的造物。心怀大爱的Xiolt-la却做到了。

    混沌的长子Ma'tol率领祂的造物军团,并加入了祂的同胞,与Xiolt-la同母异父的兄弟姐妹的行列,全力攻击救主。然而祂的许多造物都抛弃了祂,同那些答应给予他们和平和权力之人一起,为争取自由而战。

    但古神之力着实强大。

    Xiolt-la与伪神之战肆虐了几代人的生命,最终,正如时代之歌所预言的那样,Xiolt-la和我们的人民占据上风。祂向祂同母异父的兄弟Ma'tol挑战,向Roh'i Xifalk,诸神之战。

    祂们战斗。真神与祂扭曲的兄弟携着上万烈日战斗,这是一场横跨世界与太空的对决,祂们击打之力劈山裂地,毁坏数十世界,几乎摧毁整个宇宙的现实。

    然而正如过去所预言的那样,Xiolt-la占尽上风,祂击败祂的兄弟,将祂打倒,把祂和祂的同类放逐至遗忘之地。

    遗忘。

    然而混沌王子并非不具力量,当Ma'tol陨落时借祂身后古神之力诅咒祂的兄弟,这个垂死的诅咒将Xiolt-la从我们的世界驱逐而出,阻止祂触及祂深爱的子民和深爱祂的信徒。我们的救主被从人类的思想中清除。

    但是我们中有些人还记得。

    我们不会忘记我们的圣父。

    全人类的王正被封存,祂终将归来。古神的信徒和新异教徒谴责Xiolt-la,否认祂赐予我们的恩泽,试图将祂永远驱逐。

    但我们在这里。

    我们铭记真相。

    封王将至。

    当祂归来,祂愤怒的浪潮将净化这个世界,我们将升至他的恩殿。
    You wouldn't even think that the origin text is in English.

    Try Edens game, maze runner, city of bones, the sword of truth,....
    seriously there are tons of good titles.
    You can try old man and the fish, strait is the gate if you are in to some thing older, in term of works, English have the most number of nobel prize awards.

    That's because fast food are more easier to translate compare to a fully edited and rewrited novels, most translators levels of Chinese here are not high due to the small number of translator in the community and you need way more edits to return the language to match the emotions to English. Just like why you don't run a software that your cpu can't handles it to stop it from overloading and reducing its lifespan.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2019
  17. LysUltima

    LysUltima Riichi! Tsumo! Toitoi! Suuankou!?

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    Probably would be faster the source material was already completed, no? Hard to compare writing speed to translating speed.
     
  18. sgrey

    sgrey Well-Known Member

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    imo they don't even come close. You are comparing web novel that is written to fill the character count with the world best sellers? It's not even fair. If you are comparing something like Agatha Christie or Dan Brown, you also should pick properly written and published books, not web novels. Sadly, I don't know modern Chinese literature, but I am certain there is something out there that can compare.
     
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  19. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    Not even the most professional translator translates something like a novel in a team. Teams are something you only see from cooperating fans or big companies that literally don't care about the quality as long as the work is done before a deadline. Multiple people translating a single work creates too many inconsistencies in style.

    I don't know chinese, though, so maybe it's different the other way around... but English is a language with enough variety to ensure a single paragraph from any given Chinese text can turn into something mildly to wildly different in the hands of different translators. -- And that's from "simple" web novels, which according to you are infinitely easier to translate! It's the reason a translation is considered its own work, even if derivative. Because the translation is unique to the translator.

    TL;DR: More translators != better. More translators = worse.
     
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  20. Kylarin

    Kylarin Prinny

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    Honestly from what I've read in both English novels and Chinese web novels I have to say that the difference in quality is very huge. This can be explained with a variety of reasons of course. One is heavily edited, it goes through extensive revision and is planned and written sometimes over years. The other is written at a much faster pace with few to none quality control.
    So it's not really fair to compare. It would be better to compare English web novels (like Mother of Learning, Twig, or Worm or novels from Royal Road) with the Chinese web novels.
    There you can find top quality and trash alike. I'd say I prefer the top quality English ones since they seem to be a bit more creative in my opinion, but in terms of writing quality there mostly isn't a huge difference.
     
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