Request Could You Explain This?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by SquadCammander354, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. SquadCammander354

    SquadCammander354 〖Stormy's Better Bro〗『Lord of Storms』『The Expert』

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    18,821
    Reading List:
    Link
    Even when it is in past tense, in certain instances, it just looks...out of place.
     
  2. Kemm

    Kemm Custom title

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,001
    Likes Received:
    901
    Reading List:
    Link
    The basic issue is that chinese is an agglutinant language while english is a flexive one.

    While there are issues when translating any pair of languages due to things like association of concepts and such, when both languages are of different systems, and in particular when one is purely flexive and the other one is purely agglutinant (which are complete opposites), that reaches new heights (luckily, english is not as flexive as it could have been, so the hurdle is slightly less). When we are in these sorts of situatuations, grammar itself becomes alien, so unless one is pure bilingual, there will be faults with the translation.

    Now, the same way it has become very common for japanese translations to be peppered with japanese terms some translators falsely believe have no english equivalent, even when the translator in question knows the english equivalent, since it "gives them some 'flavour'" (i.e. people are so used to it that they expect it, and broken expectatives hurt), chinese translations leave some of those faulty translations for the very same reason (people are so used to reading translations made by below-average translators that decent ones that fix those inconsistencies are seen as heretical).
     
  3. orioledoll

    orioledoll Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    43
    Reading List:
    Link
    I'm assuming "gotten" would be "得到," but that I admit is probably just faulty translation because using "acquired" wouldn't really change the connotation. The point of translation, whether figurative or literal, should at least make grammatical sense. :blobcheeky:
     
    SquadCammander354 likes this.
  4. Invisalats

    Invisalats The Bearded One

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    975
    Reading List:
    Link
    Really the over use of kill is by either translators who consider themselves purists(pretentious) and mediocre to bad translators. Translations especially from novels require more than just literally translating everything as is, there is a certain art to bringing a foreign story into a different language. Personally I prefer most things adapted well like Deathblade does for his translations but some things just don't translate well and that when I enjoy mispronouncing Chinese words in my head. Please note I hate when all names are translated and not just titles... Also I dislike the "kill" usage when it comes to like friendly spars.
     
    SquadCammander354 likes this.
  5. XXXXX

    XXXXX Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    209
    Reading List:
    Link
    i personally think acquire sounds too fancy for common sentences like:
    where did you get that blade, sounds wrong with acquire even though it makes contextual sense... maybe this is because of common vs uncommon words, that i learned when learning english as i am not from an english speaking country...

    there might also be differences, for example america might use get while britain might use acquire more

    but this is pure guesswork, and i don't know much about this stuff anyways.
    hope you find your answers
     
    SquadCammander354 likes this.
  6. SquadCammander354

    SquadCammander354 〖Stormy's Better Bro〗『Lord of Storms』『The Expert』

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    18,821
    Reading List:
    Link
    I think I poked at a very touchy subject.
    :blobpopcorn:
     
    Femme Fatale and XXXXX like this.
  7. ElefantVerd

    ElefantVerd It's not me, and it's not you.

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,953
    Likes Received:
    1,582
    Reading List:
    Link
    Trocadalho do carilho. I mean, what a lousy pun.
     
    SquadCammander354 likes this.
  8. Invisalats

    Invisalats The Bearded One

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    975
    Reading List:
    Link
    Aquire/d in the US is typically more business formal and is rarely used by most people even in a business setting. Get is probably the most commonly used, as for gotten I rarely hear it used even by the old people who dropped out of school at 10yrs old... Really it is more commonly avoided than used in most places. I don't remember being allowed to use it in English reports as I'm pretty sure it was up there with ain't on the "it'll cost you points on your grade" with teachers.
     
    kenar and SquadCammander354 like this.
  9. Ophis_Trihexa

    Ophis_Trihexa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2016
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    71
    Reading List:
    Link
    Kill and attack are not equal, attack is your going to fight and if in a battlefield you will kill your enemies.
    Kill however is announcing to the world you intend to murder or start a slaughter, the battlefield is irrelevant. So to yell "kill" is to tell everybody to join forces to put down you and yours because your blood thirsty murderers.
    Die is more personal 1 on 1.
    War or charge are easy inspiration on the battlefield.
    Or you do a speech before the battle starts, to harden morale.
    I can't think of any movies with large battlescenes anyone ever used "kill" as an appropriate opener.
     
    SquadCammander354 likes this.
  10. ElefantVerd

    ElefantVerd It's not me, and it's not you.

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,953
    Likes Received:
    1,582
    Reading List:
    Link
    - KILLL!!!
    - Yes, I will kill you in a moment.
    - KILL!!! KILL!!! KILL!!!
    - Sure, just wait a...
    - KILL!!! KILL!!! KILL!!! KILL!!! KILL!!! KILL!!! KILL!!! KILL!!! KILL!!!
    - Okay, there you go.
    * kills *
    - AAAAAAAARGHHH!!!!
    - Not the wordiest enemy, aren't you?
     
    SquadCammander354 likes this.
  11. Nightow1

    Nightow1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Reading List:
    Link
    I disagree on this part, their translation is technically correct, they are not responsible for the difference in cultures and language that caused a divide in understanding between the 2. If you translated any of the other alternatives, they would have lost even more meaning. For example, "Charge!" loses the understanding that the other person just gave a command to kill everyone, while the reverse, being verboose, has the opposite problem in losing the conciseness of the command.

    This is one of the translated words that has no winner, any other way loses something, so they might as well keep it as "Kill!". At least that is technically correct and it's then up to the reader to understand the culture that the word comes from.
     
    SquadCammander354 likes this.
  12. SquadCammander354

    SquadCammander354 〖Stormy's Better Bro〗『Lord of Storms』『The Expert』

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    18,821
    Reading List:
    Link
    *well that's actually awesome to know*
    *gives you a cookie for letting me realize that there is simply "no solution"*
    :cookie:
     
  13. BornToBe

    BornToBe Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    3
    Reading List:
    Link
    For me, it's about context. I translate it to die, attack, charge, kill them, whatever sounds best in the situation. But sometimes, I use kill, because is the simplest, emotional cry.
    As they flew over a certain a certain village, they all sucked in a cold gasp. Seeing corpse after corpse, their blood began to boil and killing intent surged out of them.

    “These goddamn bastards!”

    Some people cursed through gritted teeth. A village of hundreds of people was now only filled with corpses. There were old seniors who were already white-haired, and there were also babies who were only a couple of months old. Not one of them was still alive.

    “Charge forward!”

    Long Chen suddenly stood up and roared “Brothers, the Corrupt path’s disciples are just up ahead slaughtering innocent commoners!

    “Today’s battle is not a trial, but a true life and death battle!

    “This battle is not for points or glory. This battle is just to bear witness to our hot blood! Use the weapons in your hands to cut off their heads! Slaughter them all!”

    “Kill! Kill! Kill!”

    The scene below them immediately provoked all their hearts. All their eyes were completely red.

    They were originally nervous about fighting, but after hearing Long Chen’s battle cry, they all began to crazily shout, a murderous aura surging through the sky.

    Suddenly a small town appeared before them. There were dozens of red-robed Corrupt path disciples cutting down the innocent commoners with their sabers. The entire town was dyed red. Howls of grief filled the air.

    Long Chen was the first to jump off the Magical Beasts, directly charging over to the Corrupt path’s disciples.

    “KILL!”
     
  14. SquadCammander354

    SquadCammander354 〖Stormy's Better Bro〗『Lord of Storms』『The Expert』

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    18,821
    Reading List:
    Link
    Okay, that works because there was a speech to motivate the men to do that; in some novels they usually don't have one if it's just another - more or less - instance to show the MC's power.
     
  15. Valcryst

    Valcryst 『Theorizing Panda』 ʕ-ᴥ – ʔ 『Ddraigslayer』 ︻デ═一

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2018
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    1,623
    Reading List:
    Link
    I take it as like when people in war movies typically say "Charge!" Or "Attack!".
    If it's the leader, then it's easy to understand.

    Then the followers say it too..
    1. To pass on the command.
    2. It's a warcry.

    A warcry is something that helps them gather their courage. Most of the the time it's just guttural sounds or "Yaaaah" or something...
    But "Kill" when said to yourself as you attack, makes your goal clear to the enemy and to yourself.
    You are out to KILL.

    This is how I understand this. Also Hi Squad. :3
     
    SquadCammander354 likes this.
  16. SquadCammander354

    SquadCammander354 〖Stormy's Better Bro〗『Lord of Storms』『The Expert』

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    18,821
    Reading List:
    Link
    I still prefer the usage of both words, just shen used properly.

    Also, hey @Valcryst! OwO)/
     
  17. Nisaea

    Nisaea Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2019
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    85
    Reading List:
    Link
    Kinda off-topic, but jeez, this community's expectations towards hobby translators are over the top. Not talking about OP or people who just voice their doubts about some words/phrases, but the people who immediately point fingers and say "bad/lazy translator" (also, editors/rewriters are there for something).
    Regarding the word kill, like some poeple already said, I feel that it sometimes does a better job of conveying the mood rather than saying kill them. For me at least, kill gives off a more detached, cold feeling. Like "kill to your heart's content" or slaughter. Tho it kinda makes more sense in battles that involve a huge number of people.
     
    SquadCammander354 likes this.
  18. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,745
    Likes Received:
    2,521
    Reading List:
    Link
    When I read translations it's not uncommon to see them retain either word usage or sentence structure that looks odd in English. I feel that both problems are derived from a similar source: the translator is going for a more literal translation even when it leads to less clarity and poorer flow. This is commonly found in subtitles for TV and film, and it might be influencing fan translations.

    I'm trying to figure whether this is more common in Chinese or Japanese translations but I honestly see a lot of both.

    But it is the translator's fault. His job is to render the original meaning into English, and if the wrong word is being conveyed, then it's on him. Generally, I'm pretty forgiving of amateur translators, but ignoring errors isn't helping anybody.

    Sure, but nobody's arguing against that. The word in Chinese has multiple meanings so it's obvious that it can (and should) be translated in different ways depending on the context. The argument in this thread is that only one of these meanings is being conveyed even though it often isn't the correct one.
     
  19. Nisaea

    Nisaea Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2019
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    85
    Reading List:
    Link
    Yeah, but that's why there are editors and rewriters. A hobby/amateur translator most of the time the translator won't even notice such a slight discrepancy, especially if they're not 100% fluid in both languages involved. In those cases it's the rewriter's job to make the translation flow better.

    What do you mean? I wasn't arguing with anyone, I literally just answered OP's question, "why not add "them" or another noun after the verb? Is this a language thing that can't be explained due to there being no existing parallel with the difference in characters? Or is it because the character itself has multiple meanings or translations?"
     
  20. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,745
    Likes Received:
    2,521
    Reading List:
    Link
    Nope. The translator has to let his editor know that the word being used has two possible meanings. If only one word is indicated, the editor isn't supposed to assume that the translator made a mistake. Besides, "translator" is often used as shorthand for the whole translation team because it's not exactly exciting to try to figure out who is precisely most at fault.

    Except that this obviously only applies in situations where "Kill!" doesn't already make sense.