LCD Death Mage

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by lygarx, May 21, 2017.

  1. sjmcc13

    sjmcc13 Well-Known Member

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    Of course he can not, pretty certain he is only interested in "proving" he is right and not actually accepting or working around any flaws or inconsistencies in his reasoning.

    That is not actually proof, especially if you consider that Van has matured and developed massively since then. Also the reason Van would have to do so THEN is because of Heinz's reputation (A Rank near-hero) vs Van's (Outcast Vida Race in a pro-Alda dutchy), that is not as big an issue now, and is moving more and more in to Van's favor.
    Yes, it is a large part of what he used to become a poster boy for the peaceful faction.
    There are ways to profit from something other then monetarily, that and the rep gains help get higher paying quests/gigs.
    No, but bad humor is not appreciated.

    Also, if you are going to start quoting definitions, quote the right F-ing word, no one claimed Heinz was being a profiteer, the definition that matters , is necessary to hold a competent argument, and you omitted because it shows this argument has exactly 0 merit, is Profit. The definition you quoted even links to profit, because it is an important and necessary word to understand the definition you quoted.

    For profit this definition "a valuable return" is the key part. Note that this is not limited to strictly money, trading favors is something that does easily quality, is coming in politics and done enough would even count as profiteering.

    Except he is not use the word, you are the only one who has it used outside of quotes, did you even re-read posts to make sure you did not misread them before going off on a side rant.
    He is not technically your evil stereotype, but he is very self serving, does more damage then good, and looks for justifications for his actions, though he accepts very thin ones.

    Heinz is like your racist Grandma, bigoted as hell and does do harm, but not evil to her core. He just does not realize, and possibly refuses to accept, that Alda is the insane god (and he is) not Vida.

    He is human, and suffer from the flaws and minor evils that most of humanity does, just he is good with a sword so that gives him more opportunities to show and fall prey to his flaws.
    I think he was qualified for A, but not sure about S, well at least not before Alda's buff him up plan.
    Mentally though definitely not qualified for S.
     
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  2. The Godly Aeolus

    The Godly Aeolus Active Member

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    I've never once stated that a victim needs to be innocent for it to count as murder. That would be as irresponsible as it is incorrect. Nor did I ever intend to imply such a thing. I DID, however, point out that the crimes committed by the bandits and illegal slavers of Lambda are so unfathomably heinous that the criminals involved would be considered to have voluntarily forfeited any legal protections or human rights they may have had; this is true for both Lambda as a whole, and even in our real world. Since they have no legal protections, killing them cannot be illicit, hence it can never be murder by any of the three definitions you have provided. The three hunters were killed by Vandalieu in retaliation for their attempts to seek him out and hand him over to High-Priest Bormack Gordan and certain death in exchange for money; Van was defending himself against an armed gang of kidnappers who deliberately invaded his home with the premeditated intent to cause him grievous harm, and he wanted to make sure that nobody else could follow suit. By our understanding of law, that isn't murder, and it's also a really damn good justification for killing the scumbags. Hilariously, it doesn't count as murder even in the Amid Empire where this all took place, because for it to be counted as murder they'd have to legally recognize the offending party as a person, which Dhampirs are not considered there; the hunters would've been considered unfortunate victims of a common monster attack while on-the-job.
     
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  3. Eddy andres

    Eddy andres Well-Known Member

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    well, actually there is an answer no to this scenario but yes to the question posed later If you want, I'll tell you? but in the meantime, it all depends, is it against him or his allies? If it is against him, there is no problem, it would be a personal fight between the two, Van would completely agree with him feeling this way or with his attempts to attack, but he is not going to let himself be killed or regret it. if it is against his allies, even against the smallest in rank, it will kill him, or at least it will leave the family in a bad state, not so much that they and their allies are ruined, but enough to That they do not think of attacking again, and the first and the second are more likely than the last, because when you win Van's grudge, it is not an eye for an eye but a nail for an arm.

    On the subject of Van's morals, I think you ignore something important, you don't have to consider something evil or wrong to hate someone, and his conflict was more because he knew, that people would use their own cases to defend him and say that he should To forgive him or even that there is no reason to be alienated, ignoring him as one of the victims and that there has been no compensation or apology for Heinz's case, is not good, but whether it is unfair or not is debatable.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  4. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    He knew they were coming, from listening in to their conversation in town, so doesn't that make his retaliation premeditated too?
     
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  5. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    You know what? I'm done arguing. This isn't going anywhere and I'm definitely not the only one getting annoyed right now. The only thing I will say is that I actually do apologize for using the word profiteer when I should have stuck with monetize. I don't think this changes the substance of my argument in any way because the conversation was about whether Heinz has ever personally/unethically profited from his reputation, but I admit I should have been more careful with wording and not simply quoted a word that is actually just synonymous with the one actually used.

    Anyway. Forceful subject change time. It occurs to me that I don't know who the actual baddie for this particular volume is. Van is just kinda bumming around playing low key preacher at the moment with some gods and Randolf seemingly getting prepped to change sides. Are we going to get a sudden left turn out of Alcrem over to Peria or something?
     
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  6. tirirism

    tirirism Mad-ness Monster

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    I would actually like it if the situation in Lambda reaches some kind of a stalemate so that we can get more progression over on Origin. Mei, Banda and brother-kun have a lot to do.
     
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  7. Eddy andres

    Eddy andres Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I did not know what the initial topic of the conversation was, we have been in this for a while and even when and I got on the subject .we were changing too much.

    about the topic.
    itself, it is a quiet arc, but an event will occur that will result in something important
     
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  8. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    I think maybe Avalon is going to finally make even dumbass Amemiya realize he's bad soon by trying to mess with Mei and getting gibbed. Though maybe Banda will have to take care of that.
     
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  9. The Godly Aeolus

    The Godly Aeolus Active Member

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    It would. And? So what? What was he supposed to do instead? He was six months old, couldn't call for help, couldn't move on his own, and had no direct offensive capabilities yet.

    Even if I knew in advance that someone was planning on mounting an armed invasion of my home with the intention of kidnapping me and selling me to an evil cultist who wants to torture me to death, I'd still shoot the bastard dead for actually going ahead and trying to do it, as I would have done even if I had zero advance warning. You wanna know why? It's because no amount of forewarning changes the objective fact that the scumbag still mounted an armed invasion of my home with the intention of kidnapping me and selling me to an evil cultist who wants to torture me to death! Knowing about it in advance doesn't make the other party any less guilty for actually committing the crime, or you any more guilty for trying to protect yourself from the other party. IRL, you'd be advised to inform your local police first, but that definitely doesn't guarantee you any protection, and you may end up needing to protect yourself in the end anyway. In such a case, does that make you in the wrong? I think not.
     
  10. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    I imagine some of Van's other seeds will sprout before Avalon makes a mistake, he's been very careful not to leave trails that lead to him. Maybe Metamorph will sprout some Banda shapes, and mindbreak her way to freedom.
     
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  11. Shaman Ray

    Shaman Ray Well-Known Member

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    @The Godly Aeolus Going to be honest I don't want to get rapped up in the conversation I would love to respond at length but I'm tired and don't care enough to do that so I will try and keep it short. I see both Van and Heinz as well meaning people who both have done bad things. Bad things that would make it hard for me to want to know ether one of them personally in real life but they aren't real. They live in a story so one I like the other I'm kind of indifferent to and would prefer not seeing. I like van but, you can't tell me he was unable to escape the hunters, it's proven he could have when he hid from priest what's his face that killed Darcia when they were hunting him down. I don't know if you care but if he could escape the notice of the hunters that means he chose to kill them which I was okay with but, in real life that is called murder especially since he set traps (premeditated) with the intent to harm them enough if not kill them so he could torture their souls (Don't get me started on what van does to souls I willfully try to ignore it). In the end I just like to just watch the discourse in this forums so you may never see me comment again, if you like you may consider me unable to properly argue my point. So you win, you're argument is correct.
     
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  12. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Oh I totally forgot about her. Yeah I think she has to be involved in whatever mess it is that eventually moves Avalon over to Lambda. Cause he pretty much has to die fairly soon.

    Really want to see more of her, honestly.
     
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  13. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    Again, rest of your comment is true, but this isn't. Van was mobile enough to get to his mother's remains, he could have gone anywhere, and he had methods of communicating, even if not with people of authority, or people at all. He decided that he needed to punish the guy that ratted his mother out.
     
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  14. Darquesse

    Darquesse Well-Known Member

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    Man, I haven't seen the forum get this heated up in over a year. Anyone else enjoying the show?
     
  15. The Godly Aeolus

    The Godly Aeolus Active Member

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    Not trying to dunk all over your personal opinions or anything. I'm actually enjoying our debate. Don't forget, however, that while Vandalieu did manage to hide from Bormack Gordan, it was after he had dealt with the hunters. In fact, his interrogation of those hunters is the only reason Vandalieu even knew that Gordan was planning on sweeping the forest to locate his cave hideout in the first place, and it almost didn't work because the jerk was literally planning on digging-out the collapsed cave in order to make sure that Van was dead! His options were very limited, as evidenced by how he nearly starved to death in that cave even despite his best efforts.
     
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  16. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    It was actually fun to argue for awhile but then people on both sides started getting mad and it's time to stop when that happens.
     
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  17. The Godly Aeolus

    The Godly Aeolus Active Member

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    Vandalieu didn't have enough time to prepare the things he'd need for a journey before the witless trio showed up to try and capture him. Y'know? Like the food he still needs to eat? And while he could perhaps arrange for possessed traps that can reset themselves, it actually drained him significantly to make Undead other than insects at the time due to his general lack of skills and very young age. Not to mention that Gordan showed up almost immediately after the hunters did, which Vandalieu only learned about in advance by interrogating those hunters. Van's hiding method almost failed, by the way, because Gordan fully intended to dig-out the collapsed cave until he found Van's corpse! Remember, motive and means aren't the only important factors; opportunity is also critical, and Vandalieu seldom has opportunity on his side.

    Not gonna lie, though, even if Van hadn't killed the hunters in self-defense, he would've eventually found some other way to punish them for their role in Darcia's death. At that point in the story, however, Van had already made the conscious decision to prioritize his own survival before plotting any sort of meaningful revenge schemes.
     
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  18. Mastine

    Mastine Well-Known Member

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    Again, Enough.
    I've lost count of the number of times this argument has been had over and over again. Not just in this chat but the last one that got locked.
    Here's something you can distract yourself with. Which characters fit into these categories. I'll even get you started. Don't justify your picks.
    Hero wannabes(that fail at being one)
    Amemiya, Heinz
    I have the POWER
    Booty call world
    Sneider
    Revenge protagonist.
    Van
    My world was better, act like I demand
    Asagi
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  19. Arbelbyss

    Arbelbyss ‚łĘSlacking Researcher‚ł•

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    When people think they know better yet they don't make anything better. Vandalieu has improved things and he doesn't think he knows better. Vandeliu doesn't interfere with the wills of others, he's just been living his life doing the task Rodcorte wanted the Reincarnators to do which I doubt they could. Before Rodcorte just decided to send them to kill Van for messing with the reincarnation system via soul destruction. Heinz hasn't done anything to improve life, all he knows is Guide as the Holy Guider which is the extermination of undead and some other things. All Heinz knows how to do is serve others as a hired killer of sorts or as an image/poster boy for a faction to gain a following.
     
  20. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Every time I think of what a failure Amemiya is it makes me laugh. I don't know why.
     
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