LCD Death Mage

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by lygarx, May 21, 2017.

  1. xacual

    xacual Well-Known Member

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    Amemiya is more accomplished than Heinz at least. Sure we know that he got betrayed and he’s had Avalon working against the group from the very start, but we also know that governments were already looking into many of the reincarnated that were pretty openly using their powers like Murakami and Kanako. Other than that and their total fuck up handling the death magic experiment group that ended up becoming Eighth Guidance, they’ve been successful at counter terrorism and disaster relief for over a decade.

    Definitely more of an accomplishment than Heinz and Heinz doesn’t have a teammate who is literally betraying their group every second of the day.
     
  2. sjmcc13

    sjmcc13 Well-Known Member

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    Ya Amemiya is not a failure, he is just not living in a comic book world. He does more good then bad, it is just that his screws ups have had some bad consequences but that is mostly on Avalon, Google cheat guy not realizing he need to be careful with his wording until it was to late, and him trusting the wrong person. The Bravers were not a perfect answer, but hey were a decent answer to a valid problem it was just implemented improperly by everyone. That and he actually learns from his mistakes and tries to do better.
    He also has some redemption coming up
     
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  3. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    I think they're about the same, actually. In the present, meaning we exclude killing moms for money cause they violated Amid's Apartheid orders.

    Heinz has done more bad things but I don't think that's because Amemiya is a better person or more careful. I mean, he killed a non hostile entity escorting child experimentation subjects, then turned those kids over to more researchers because he also just blindly believed the first friendly face that told him something convenient.

    He'll probably turn out better, though. I think he'll meet Heinz before the latter dies and be warned not to make the same mistakes. Basically, he's been lucky so far.
     
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  4. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    Van wasn't non-hostile, he had just killed the majority of the people in that facility, and you wouldn't know until the aftermath, that he rescued a couple dozen children being used as guinea pigs.
     
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  5. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    He didn't attack them, though, and Amemiya's response to finding out who he killed did not contain any remorse for having killed him, only that he should have arrived sooner. This seems very similar to Heinz to me. It just so happens that Amemiya only killed one innocent person there, but I think it he'd been investigating ghoul villages he might we'll have done the same as Heinz or similar. Maybe the kids would have lived.
     
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  6. kagemao

    kagemao Active Member

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    I think Heinz and Amemiya's main similiarity is that both seem to keep their do-gooding within the bounds of the law, in contrast to someone like Schneider who will beat the snot out of you to free legally owned slaves.

    Even in saving Selen, the folk were treated as bandits. The guys who later tried to kill her, and became Heinz's slaves after he guided them, were at risk of being executed by the government for going after her.

    Likewise when the people who were trying to kill the Bravers revealed that they were working for a legitimate government, Amemiya backed down and didn't destroy the Eighth Guidances' corpses, despite how fervently he was opposed to death magic testing. Like, there's no doubt they are gonna use those corpses to try and make new lab rats.

    The difference might be in how they feel about undead in general, though I dunno Amemiya's exact stance on that. Heinz's guiding seems to mainly boost people's ability to access life/light combo magic, sorta drawing the line between dhampirs and vampires/undead on what he will tolerate. Probably with a similar no tolerance line for the demon king's fragments. Amemiya doesn't have the cultural background to have the same hang-ups as Heinz, and his daughter will probably develop some powers like Van's eventually, so I expect him to be more reasonable about it if only out of sympathy for her.
     
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  7. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    They had a couple Bravers working on predicting the future, plus Avalon was probably funding the place too, and Oracle had just googled the way to take down the Undead without suffering casualties. So they knew ahead of time, that he would kill or had killed the researchers, but wouldn't attack them.
     
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  8. daxrocket

    daxrocket Well-Known Member

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    You can't really compare Schneider's and Amemiya's responses because they live in different worlds. If Amemiya destroyed the corpses, the Bravers would get fucked because all of the countries would use that as an excuse to say that the Bravers should be under governmental control and not an independent organizations.

    Schneider however, can't really be punished that badly. Think about it, what punishment could you give Schneider that would hurt him more than it would hurt the Amid Empire and still be sufficiently severe.
     
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  9. The Godly Aeolus

    The Godly Aeolus Well-Known Member

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    I mean, he does have a well-earned reputation as a womanizer... so why not poison him with a substance that gives him a permanent case of ED? Now he gets to live forever without ever again being able to enjoy one of the few things he actually indulges in! This is even worse because it basically denies Schneider one of the most fundamental ways to show his devotion to Vida's ideals, the act of physical love!

    Or so I'd suggest, except that I'm more than slightly sure that he's immune to basically any toxic substance that the Amid Empire could ever produce or procure without literal divine intervention. Not to mention that Vandalieu could literally just Detoxify Schneider even if the Amid Empire could implement such a dastardly scheme effectively.
     
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  10. WarDemonBal

    WarDemonBal Member

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    What could posibly be the end of the Amid Empire after doing somethhing like that to him? They leave him alone because he has royal blood and they dont have enough forces to stop him! hahahahaha
    Being Vida's believer will have nothing to do with all the sympathy he could get from everywhere and ppl that want to take the throne to suppport him to take down the emperor and all his supporters.
     
  11. xacual

    xacual Well-Known Member

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    Schneider doesn't have royal blood, he's a commoner. You probably misunderstood the scene where the Emperor mentions his cousin, it was referring to the duke talking to hire Schneider, not referring to Schneider as being the Emperor's cousin.
     
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  12. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    They actually have a ton of parallels. They both resort to force before diplomacy without even realizing they're doing it (Amemiya vs Subject 0, the ghoul villages and majin), they both never really reflect on their past mistakes, they always blindly believe in information that they're presented from bad sources, they both have an evil friend that holds them back, they both have daughters that represent something they reject, they ignore their doubts to continue on to make terrible mistakes, they always think first of methods before results and end up completely sabotaging the latter etc. I feel like they have the same basic personality, just dumped into different worlds and given slightly different upbringings. I guess Amemiya is more passive, though, and is even less willing to challenge outside authority.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
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  13. sjmcc13

    sjmcc13 Well-Known Member

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    Amemiya works in anti-terrorism and is not their diplomacy specialist, if he is there someone else has tried diplomacy and failed, or determined it will not work.
    The subject 0 case is also an extremely bad example as in that world there was exactly 0 evidence that the undead could be reasoned with, and he kind of was killing people (that deserved much much worse)
    Plus if he used force first some events like the traitors taking the 8th guidance bodies would have played out vastly differently.
    Ya, there is actually evidence on Amemiya doing the opposite, like how his perspective of the 8th guidance did a 180 because of 1 piece of info.
    Give you that, but Avalon is much much better at hiding his darker side, for now...
    No, not a good comparison, can not explain why without spoilers, but Mei does not represent something he truly rejects.
    Amemiya's problem with Death Attribute is the victims it causes due to the corrupt leaders trying to use it for their own desires, he does not hate it itself, but the damage the corrupt people do seeking its benefits.

    Heinz would justify killing with there being a 1 in a million chance something turns out dangerous without trying to put in safeguards to prevent that chance, his reasons for going after Van in the most recent arc are that flimsy. Heck at least of of those issues Botin outright told Van to work on safeguards against so it is almost certainly resolved or would be long before it became an issue as Van will listen to reasonable authority figures who are not disrespectful and Botin is that in spades.

    Amemiya is more focused on the reason it could turn out dangerous.
    Amemiya is wracked with guilt, his biggest mistakes are all in his past and future, not future like Heinz.
    He is just less willing to challenge authority that he can not challenge without massive and disastrous backlash, because he has a responsibility to not sabotage the works he has actually done. He has to deal with the politics of an entire world, not a local lord where if things go wrong he can hall up and move to the next city over. It is not a "I will not" like Heinz, but an "I can not"

    I get it, you are desperate to white knight Heinz, but blatantly making up flaws in other characters is not the way to go about it, and choosing this character just shows that on top of not getting Heinz you do not get him in the slightest at all. Yes they started from a similar point, but Heinz ran from his mistakes and only makes token gestures, Amemiya has taken effort to face his mistakes, tried to correct them and actively tries to make his world a better place as opposed to spouting pleasant lines that have no substance, and do nothing other then put a new coat of pain over the corroded and cracked framework. Amemiya is what Heinz should have been, not the hypocritical failure that he became. Both started from youthful idealism but Amemiya grew out of it and Heinz never did.
     
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  14. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Man, you really are fixated on Heinz. Don't you have anything better to do than sit on the internet and obsess over him? I don't think I said anything that suggested Heinz was a great person or that Amemiya was a terrible one, I said that they have similar personalities, behave in similar ways and have a lot of parallels. Is there some reason you need to just go "Your opinion on X is totally invalid because you hold a position I disagree with on Y"?

    Heinz's mistakes are unfixable, but Amemiya's are not. Heinz is doomed, but Amemiya can and probably will avoid the same mistakes that he did.

    Edit: For the sake of clarity, when I say they don't reflect over past mistakes, I don't mean they don't think about them at all. Even Heinz does that. I mean that they don't actually learn from them.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
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  15. kagemao

    kagemao Active Member

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    I have looked ahead with the MTL, but that was a long time ago and my memory of it is fuzzy. I do think there are intended parallels between Heinz and Amemiya so far, but that they will both get perspectives that show where they differ. I'm patiently waiting to see what sort of things I misunderstood without a proper translation.

    They did try to punish him, he just survived it. They sent him on suicide missions to kill elder dragons and he got stronger from it. I agree that Schneider (and Van) have the luxury of being able to give the middle finger to authorities because of their power, though.

    I think you can't compare them in that Schneider wouldn't have formed the bravers. But, put Schneider in that position with those powers and I'd argue he just ignores Hijiri and kills Kanako and company. They aren't even part of an authority that Amemiya recognizes, but his evil friend is there to convince him that the world will attack him for destroying the death attribute source. Dealing with the consequences can come afterward.

    Hijiri's argument that people will turn on him is weak. They are the ones on site and can control the narrative if not for the asshole evil mastermind they don't know exists. No one has to know they destroyed the bodies after the fact, communications other than Narumi were being jammed. They can cover everything up without the European Union knowing what really happened, since their soldiers went in first and died.
     
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  16. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    Regarding Amemiya it's hard to say much about him as the story has given very little first had screen time with him so far.

    Most of what we know is from exposition and other characters.

    That being said he seems like overall a fairly average and naive person who is trying to do right but is clearly not prepared for the reality he got thrown into.

    He tried to organize all his fellow reincarnators into a wannabe "justice League" and apparently ignored the wishes of some to just quietly live in peace with their powers which resulted in some having pretty tagic ends. I won't say he's a bad person for doing this as he probably was trying to go by the "with great power comes great responsibility" ideaology and might have feared some staying in hiding to use their powers for illegal reasons.... which some totally did. But the fact remains he's primarily responsible for both the good and the bad his actions caused.

    That being said he doesn't seem entirely ignorant to this fact and is still trying to do what seems right from his perspective. But he does at least seem open to questioning the status quo and not just believing things entirely at face value without reason. Again his main issue is simply being too naive and all together not ready to be the Superman of Origin.

    On a side note the fact he stayed quiet about not being the one that saved the other girl and letting the misunderstanding net him a free girlfriend again shows he's overall just a normal person. A normal person that can be tempted to take advantage of a convenient missunderstanding. But in the end she found out, they talked it out, and got married so it seems one way or another it was resolved.

    We don't know the details of this argument but given the result it's probably safe to assume he either admitted his fault or otherwise learned from the event.

    In life everyone makes mistakes. What matters isn't what we do in the moment it's what we do after. Again we haven't seen enough of Amemiya persoanlly to make a properly analysis of him. But from what we have seen he at least has a chance to correct his wrongs or at least learn from them and grow because of them.
     
  17. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    I actually never got the impression that he deliberately stayed quiet about not being the one who tried to save Narumi. I think he didn't know because she didn't directly reference it or something along those lines for a really long time. Then she did, he was like 'wtf u talkin bout girl' and they had a fight. Then they banged.

    I mean, I can't say for certain that you're wrong about that because I don't think the story says anything concrete except that they had a fight about it when she found out they were two different people, but it doesn't feel like it would be in character for him to lie like that.

    Kinda curious about what's going to happen with Alda when this is all over. It's been indicated pretty bluntly that actually killing him outright would be a really bad idea, but everything bad you can say about Heinz applies to him at least as strongly. They story has shown that he has reasons for what he does, but being understandable doesn't make you at all sympathetic or right. But if he refuses to surrender and has to die, how are they going to replace him?
     
  18. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    I don't know I don't think they spend years in a relationship and only down the road she mentioend saving her life.

    Espeically since gratitude about that is apparently what started their relationship. Either way it was resolved in the end and she was satisfied with the conclusion so it's fine.

    As for the issue of it being " in character" don't forget he's doing the same thing right now. He's not telling her "Undead" was one of them and the one that saved her. He's lying partly for her own sake as it means she helped kill the one she wanted to repay. But he's still lying by omission.

    As for Alda it's not that killing him is out of the question. IT's that killing too many gods that no one can take over is a problem. The world of Lambda is reliant on the management of the gods. So if they all die then the world will fall apart.

    Just just as Alda sealed away and stole Vida's authority she could take over his authority and Van himself could help as well. Meaning it's possible to replace Alda as a chief god and honestly I'm hoping that happens because there is simply no other result that will work. Putting aside the issue of his paying for his crimes he's shown absolute unwillingness to change his stance and is completely fanatical in his beliefs. You CANNOT reason with someone like that.

    Even his apparent forgiveness of the races of vida (excluding the ranked ones) is nothing more than a ploy to prevent support from moving to Van. There is a 100% chance if he were to win the war that eventually he'd start sending divine messages to kill off the remaining races of Vida as much as possible. Once he thinks allowing them to live is no longer a "necessary evil" he won't let them off.
     
  19. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Didn't the story say it took some time before they actually cleared up the misunderstanding and only afterward they started going out?

    True, that's a lie, but it's a lie meant to help her. I'm not sure why someone would think saying 'I'm not the person who tried to save you' would hurt them.

    When Shizarion died the world of Lambda almost broke. That's why Guduranis couldn't afford to outright kill any more of the chief attribute gods or he'd risk breaking his prize. Lambda is supposedly in pretty rough shape right now, though the light attribute is being handled better than the rest. I think if he is really killed someone will have to replace him, but we don't know anyone really suited to do so. Heinz sure aint gonna be the one to do it.

    And yeah I don't think you can really reason with Alda, which is why the question interests me. You can't really convince him to stop and it'd be damn hard to forgive him even if he did somehow do a 180, but straight up killing him without a plan would also be really dangerous for Lambda. So you're kind of stuck with racist grandpa god and no good way to deal with him. I mean, I guessss you could seal him for a hundred thousand years and when he wakes up he finds out someone drew dicks on his forehead and plastered signs everywhere saying 'Get dunked on asshole, the world is so much more awesome now that we got rid of you for awhile.' But I think you still need a replacement in the meantime like how Nineroad and Farmaun took over for Shizarion and Zantark for wind and fire.

    I don't think he'd bother killing the dark elves and stuff. Not because he's an awesome person or anything, but because the reason he wants arachne and stuff gone is because they produce corrupted mana simply by existing, which pollutes the land over time, causing devil's nests and dungeons to form. Killing off every last titan doesn't actually accomplish anything and would make him feel bad. He at least cares about Vida to SOME extent so I think he'd like to be able to tell himself he did what he could for her children.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  20. metazoxan

    metazoxan Well-Known Member

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    No his ultiamte desire is to restore the world to the state it was in before Gundaris appeared. That means all the races Vida added must go.

    Also his absolute intollerance towards monsters with rank isn't due to mana issues (Remember the Scyla territory was fine until Van intentionally filled it with undead and stuff after the scyla left) it's due to the demon king's and Vida's reincarnation systems. The races of Vida without rank can be pushed over to Rodcorte's system with some work but the ones with ranks are more deeply tied to either Vida or the DK's system (I forget exactly which). I forget the exact details but I remember it had to do with reincarnation systems that Alda was willing to allow some of Vida's races to live but not all

    and one of the major goals of Alda is to eliminate any reincarnation system besides Rodcorte's. That's not because he likes the guy but because it was the system their world has always been under. Again Alda's wish is to revert the world back to it's origional state because Bellwood turned him into a nature preservation fanatic so Alda is against any progress especially any that bring about changes to nature.

    That's also why whatever care he has for Vida won't extend to her children at all. He litterally seems every last one of them as a plague poluting the world. He won't be satisfied until they are all gone. Sure he might let them be for a time but after a few hundred or thousand years I doubt he'll be able to ignore it as he'll see it as a slow decay of the "pristine" world he wants to create.

    At the very last he'll NEVER accept them as people and will always treat them as beings he's simply allowing to life rather than ones with a right to live. So IMO he'll eventually reach a point where he'll decide to stop "allowing" them to live.
     
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