That's not really the point I was going for. Riley has been a dick for like ten years or whatever. Isla has been a Mean Lady for literally thousands of times that and with much more serious crimes, but was forgiven with no real issue. The Rickert/Sleygar comparison is noting that people who have basically committed the same crimes are treated differently for no good reason. Side note, it's kind of funny. Because before I didn't consider soul breaking to be any different from killing someone, but then it's kind of like 'Well, reincarnation is death of personality anyway, so in a way he's actually punishing people who are totally unrelated to Riley/Gordan/Sercrent/etc.' That's the only difference between soul break and murder. It actually does become pretty hard to justify doing that to someone who isn't a god or something. Not that I actually care, it just seems like soul breaking is pretty pointless.
I was reading through the whole moral debate and how vans actions are arbitrary and inconsistent, so I decided to put my thoughts out there. First, about lambda's morals, there are a couple of things people are simply forgetting. The first of which is that there are gods, one's that were able to influence how people act and think, and not all of them are exactly what you could call native. They "created" and ruled over the three original races of humans, elves and dwarves. Then, the Demon King invaded bringing his army of evil gods and the monsters they created; this includes orcs, goblins, cobolds and more. It wasn't until the right before and after the end of war that the vida's races were created. The beastmen, giants, Scylla, ghouls, vampires, etc. These races were created relitively soon after the monsters lost their unity under the Demon Kings army. So, let's look at how these races would be perceived by the populace that just came out barely victorious against the Demon Kings Army. Especially, after considering Vida was punished by Alda and Bellwood is running around doing his thing. There is simply no way all of them would be accepted. Maybe if Vida was still active the races like Dark Elves, Giants and Beastmen would be able to integrate, but the ghouls, vampires and Scylla would have a much harder time. It might be possible if the gods were still on the ground, but most of them weren't. Only Bellwood who wanted to help Alda return everything back to how it was before the Demon King invaded. He would have no doubt tried to hunt the Vida's races for the good of the world. Then, once he disappeared most of the human races would continue to do so. Only Vida's followers would be an exception and they would lack most of the blessings those loyal to the gods would have. In fact, if Alda didn't claim that she was one of the original gods, he could probably wipe out most of her followers in the Hundred thousand years in a crusade. Now, secondly, slavery is pretty normal in human society. In fact, it is still going on even in the modern day and if it was so evil, how could that happen? The simple reason is this, for good to exist, evil must also exist. In Lambda slavery itself isn't considered either, how you treat those slaves determine if you are evil or good and if they are crime slaves, there is not much you can do that would make people think you are evil. The dude who uses crime slaves to breed his monsters, feeds, clothes and takes care of those criminals and they give birth in return. That makes people look at him funny, but it is not considered irredeemably evil by those people. His strength and achievements make up for his actions. He has no doubt killed a number of powerful monsters that threatened the people in that city, so it just about evens out in the minds of the people. Additionally, crime slaves aren't drug users, common thieves or violent drunks. No, they are cold blooded murderers, bandits who have raided and pillaged, serial killers and horrible rapists. Plus, there are other types of slaves. For example, sex slaves and debt slaves. You can't treat these kinds of slaves the same way you would crime slaves. Senselessly abusing a sex slave or a debt slave will make people think you are evil. Sex slaves are supposed to be some kind of live in prostitute and debt slaves are simply working to pay off a debt. You provide them with what they need and they till use there body and time to pay off their debt. The gods by not smiting people have let these practices grow and given their silent consent. Now, onto monstrous races that are cognizant but people eat them anyways like orcs. They are a non-native species and are usually not a docile as those in the orc, goblin and kobolds empires/kingdoms, The same with Vans undead. Most undead will try to kill you on sight just because you are alive. On the other hand, most monsters even if they are semi intelligent will try to eat you, turn you into a child making machine or just kill you for the fun of it. They were literally created to kill and multiply. It has been a hundred thousand years and there have been exceptions, but that is what they are exceptions. They are not the average group of monsters. In fact, I would bet that some of those nations were ruled by Vida's races like ghouls or Scylla because monster only listen to the strong and if a monster was in charge it is unlikely to overcome its' nature. On a separate note, about Vans actions, please remember he is not what you could consider a sane human. He has gone through a number of traumatizing situations and adapted to life as a non-human. You have to remember that his minds simply works differently compared to you or me. He has a skill for that exact reason. He is trying to be 'more human', but he has simply grown too warped, just look at how his soul has been describes. It may be a combination of four souls, but it has been warped by curses and trauma.
I stopped reading when you said "Now, secondly, slavery is pretty normal in human society. In fact, it is still going on even in the modern day and if it was so evil, how could that happen?"
Again, Riley had a hand in his mom's death, Isla did not. Van doesn't give a shit about what crimes or stuff you might have commited in the past, he cares about what you have done or did to his family / his subjects. As for the Rickert thing, I'm pretty sure that just has to do with the fact that the guy summoned a familiar spirit of Bellwood and stuff.
Riley was acting with 100% free will, Isla was not. That is the key difference. Plus most of Isla's atrocities were against people who would kill her for existing, and pretty much all under orders from someone who would torture her to death if she refused. The difference is Iris, Rickert used a weapon that leaves unhealing permanent wounds against people whose only crime was trying to liberate their homeland. He was a public figure effectively bullying and torturing the weak because they did not agree with his point of view. Sleygar specialized in taking out the leaders, and mostly took down legitimate threats. He was an assassin yes, but specialized in quickly taking down major opponents. It is not no good reason, it is no reason you will bother to look into or accept. But if nothing else the way they killed was a major difference that should reflect how they were treated, leaving someone to die slowly in pain like with Iris is way worse then decapitating them from stealth for a quick death. Also how they reacted to how things went sideways also tells a lot. Sleygar's reaction was basically to get out of dodge, he was effectively an uncaring professional, Rickert still tried to kill Legion. But the biggest thing you need to keep in mind, is that with Van outside of Darcia and his father's death, going after him is not the same as going after his followers to hurt him (a major difference in these 2) and being a leader making decisions (which Rickert and Whip jerk were) is worse then being a soldier following orders. As for the Rickert thing, I'm pretty sure that just has to do with the fact that the guy summoned a familiar spirit of Bellwood and stuff. That to. So you did not like how it was going, and looked for a spot to say "I stopped here" to try and claim some moral high ground by over simplifying and ignoring what is being said rather then address it.
Yeah, but that doesn't matter to the point I'm arguing. "Riley is an asshole, so it's okay to break his soul, why would we blame Van" loses some weight when he has forgiven people who did much worse. Isla willingly joined and participated in that cult. Just because she wasn't on top doesn't absolve her. Even Isla knows that, hence why she tries to go unnoticed in the Trial of Zakkart. Sleygar and Rickert were on the same mission. Anything Rickert does that Sleygar does not condemn is therefore something that Sleygar condones. He absolutely would have done the same thing. I mean, when you get down to it, Rickert just tried to kill them. It's not like he tortured them. Rickert was also trying to run away, but was stopped by Legion. Also Jesus Christ man he just said that slavery wasn't wrong because it still happens in the modern day. How can you possibly defend saying that? I am not going to listen to any argument that uses that as a foundational premise.
I already stated that Van's rules are totally arbitrary and depend a lot on his feelings at the moment. Again Isla had never done shit to his parents or his subjects. She also was not responsible for the army that was sent after them since that was something her boss set in motion and she was just put in charge in the field really. Riley was one of the people primarily responsible for his mom's execution. A very big clearcut difference between the two. I seriously don't understand why you keep trying to drag in Isla's past crimes, Van doesn't give a shit about that kind of stuff when he decides to soul break someone, but yes she was arguably a much more terrible person overall.
His standards are actually more along the lines of "are you a legitimate threat or not?" If you are, soul-break, or once he learns he can do it, soul eating. If you can demonstrate you're not, by admitting fault, being willing to suffer what he considers an appropriate penance, and allowing him to install safe-guards so you don't turn on him later (Isla's collar and Elanora's kill switch), then maybe, just maybe, you get to be a citizen of his budding young empire. Riley, Gordan, Rickert, and Ervine were all legitimate threats, even after becoming spirits flocking around him. Riley and Gordan utterly refused to admit responsibility for their actions, even as they felt themselves being destroyed. The moment someone breaks Van's charm, they will turn on him, Gordan as Alda's sub-god and Riley, in the service of Rodcorte. So Van pre-empts that little problem and just crushes them. When they ask why, he doesn't have to say anything but "I HATE YOU!" and that's that. Ervine has a history of turning on allies and destroying them the moment things go south. In fact, he did that right in front of Van. No way Van's going to trust him to not turn on him and his allies the moment things get bad. Rickert, as mentioned above, was both a public figure fond of giving people festering untreatable wounds for a laugh, and a spy for Bellwood, which makes him a spy for Alda. No way can Van trust a guy like that.
I thought the guy's skill would fail but it worked! I wonder what the duke will do. Will he help Van because Van is a guider? He doesn't know about the demon king skill after all. Maybe he will think that like Alda raises heroes, Van is Vida's hero and a real one.
Oh, cool, it's time to give more characters personality traits they don't have again. Okay, Duke Marme actually loves to dance the polka and Miles Rouge is a rabid soccer fan. Anyway, decent chapter overall, but I'm kind of stuck wondering if I should be glad that the old patissier is friendly towards Gizania or if I should consider him condescending for an attitude that borders on the absolutely racist 'You're one of the good ones' attitude.
Soul destruction is only problem to Rodcorte. It is not evil at all. Why? Because human are personality. If reborn soul don't remember his memories he is completely different human. Soul is like computer memory who can hold information. Destroying it don't make any difference. Only errors in Rodcorte system. Van don't have concept of good and evil. Here are no good people, nor evil people. Here are just people he likes and people he hates. Because concepts of good and evil are subjective. Like war Hero. He will be hero in his country, but will be evil mass murderer in enemy country. It is like Robin Hud. He is considered good, but why? He robs others. Only because he robs people others hate and share robbed items. Simply he is good because he harms people you don't like or because he give benefits to you. But don't have anything to do with good. Because action itself is evil. This is why Van don't have concept of good and evil. Just things he like or hate.
Well, it's still killing a person, so it is evil. Less so if the person was some kind of terrible criminal, but I personally believe that once someone is incapable of harming others there is nothing to be gained from inflicting further torment upon them except your own satisfaction. And if you are gaining satisfaction from inflicting pain on people, then you are a sadist. But that's neither here nor there and I'd prefer we not get into real world philosophy. Anyway, the only thing that differentiates it from regular murder is that the soul can no longer go on to become a different and possibly better person. Also, their past lives could have been Jesus, Buddha and Mr Rogers or something, but in this life Bad Things happened to them that made them turn out badly just this one time, meaning you just permanently killed an amazing person who only turned out this way due to terrible luck and otherwise probably would have stayed a great person. This is explicitly stated, mind you: The story acknowledges that a great hero can become twisted by experience in their next life and end up horrible. So there is a kind of difference, but it's one that's really difficult to care about, you know? Which makes Asagi and the others whingeing about it kind of dumb because any actual distinction is lost on us. The story treats it like it is a worse punishment than dying and losing your sense of self, but never explains why, presumably because it's supposed to be just so obvious we don't need it explained to us. But we do need it explained to us. The above reasoning is basically the only thing that makes sense, but it isn't actually something that anyone can appreciate. Soul eating on the other hand has actual good arguments to be made about it - you're killing someone to gain power, meaning you have incentives to kill people just to make yourself stronger - but the story never touches on the distinction there. Oh, and side note, but causing problems for Rodcorte's system is not actually a good thing for the world(s) until a suitable replacement can be feasibly implemented. Rodcorte himself is a horrible person, but without his system, basically every world he oversees will collapse. So while it's satisfying when things get harder for him, it actually IS a bad thing.
If you recall the former teacher himself commented that dying or being destroyed made little difference to him. Because either way HE didn't exist anymore. Doesn't matter if your past life was the budda himself. Under Rodcorte's system that is all gone at death. We are told it's horrible beyond imagining but even the characters in the story don't see a lot of difference. Those in the demon king's broken system that still retain parts of their past are the ones that seem the most horrified.
People on Lambda at least are also afraid of it on the basis that, as long as their soul is intact, death isn't actually absolutely the end. Like they can be chosen to become gods after death if they were particularly notable and powerful in life. And people know that reincarnation is a thing, so it's possible that maybe in the future they will obtain that kind of status so it gives them something to hope for, potentially.
our little eldritch horror has been doing a lot of arbitrary things to souls as long he's been alive this time. Using them for golems, twisting their wishes to make them into ghost followers, building literal whirlpools to reuse them as soldiers ("soul"diers), reanimating corpses, creating haunted weapons, ships, carriages and armor, making new species through soul manipulation, making new plants, using the different element aligned ghosts to augment his magic, combining soul bits to create new souls (bone man), eating souls, breaking sous, literally punching holes in souls, manifesting his own soul for combat purposes. It's basically been one long slog through Van using soul techniques this entire time.
If person is alive he is capable of harming others. Only dead are incapable of harming others (if they return to reincarnation circle). spycho357. Van does exactly the same as all Gods do. Rod, took shards of 4 souls and made new soul. Vida created new races. Gods take souls of dead and make them in to they folowers.