LCD Death Mage

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by lygarx, May 21, 2017.

  1. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Should. Bonuses from a Job persist after you change the Job, which leads to a kind of exponential growth for those who can possess Jobs. As an easy to understand example, if each job you possess provides +1 Strength at level up and you have someone with 3 Jobs and someone with 10, then the person with three is getting +6 Str per level up but the guy with 10 is getting +55. I think it was also commented after he changed Jobs that construction is still continuing because he ran out of excuses to stop it, meaning he's still getting exp.
     
  2. secretish

    secretish Well-Known Member

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    Getting exp from the same things and keeping the bonuses are 2 different things. I think new jobs mostly only gain exp from doing things related to them, and don't use the previous job's exp conditions. Otherwise, he'd probably be getting a ton of free exp from the demon king and demigod jobs and instantly level up most subsequent jobs instantly, since he's still being the next demon king and getting worshipped constantly.
     
  3. Feng Tian

    Feng Tian Well-Known Member

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    As a demigod he is most certainly getting exp since its related to his skills, which are all still active. But given his current level he simply needs tons of exp to get anywhere.
     
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  4. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    Yeah, that's a problem too, everyone validating Van has been influenced by some form of charm from him too, so they don't get as harsh when he does something they don't approve of. Even Darcia was going to originally encourage him to go on with his life, after her death, but his Death Charm warped her before she could stop him from binding her soul.
     
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  5. spycho357

    spycho357 Well-Known Member

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    also keep in mind the level of a job can be influenced by other factors, Van maxed out the demon king job immediately without doing any EXP farming. Whereas he had to grind the levels for death mage.
     
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  6. Donce

    Donce Well-Known Member

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    Think. If you have cook job and become professional cook. Later you decide to be barber, will you forget how to cook food? Even if you start barber job you still know how to cook. The same go for job change. If Van change job from demiurge to cook he is still demiurge and it is written in his job list. Job demiurge don't disappear from job list. You just level up deferent job, because you can't level up demiurge anymore.
     
  7. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone else kind of creeped out by stuff like death attribute charm and the fact that Van is knowingly taking advantage of mind control abilities that work on his followers?
     
  8. Baldingere

    Baldingere Roseau pensant

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    Yeah. It's great. Van is so cute, relatable at times, and he's very likable, so the unsettling times always come like a surprise. It makes the story so fun.
     
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  9. X07Zero

    X07Zero Well-Known Member

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    What Van did in this novel it will not be strange if we cursed him to death if he is a villain, right?
    I mean charm, brainwash, human experiment, torture, massacre, robbed land, threaten people to accept his demand.

    of cause we understand him because the story is from his side, we know his circumstance, his inner thought but if it's from Alda side? well, we already know.

    like if Tsuki ga Michi writing by Trashmoki POV, maybe, just maybe, he will not be hated that much XD
     
  10. Donce

    Donce Well-Known Member

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    No.
    Charm is not creepy. Look how many people on Earth are charmed by some politics, idols, priests and so on. They low them, they give money to them. Some put photos of them on they walls and here are no magic involved. Look how many mans follow ass of women like they are brainwashed :D
    Love is result of charm.
    Mind controlling are going in full power in all countries on Earth. Mostly using propaganda or just by lie.
     
  11. Startarrot

    Startarrot Well-Known Member

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    Charm isnt brainwashing. It just gives people that fall under its description a better opinion of the user. If van was antagonistic to someone under charm then it wouldn't have any effect. Vans charm in specific also allows certain creatures to have a clearer ego (ie, undead and insects)

    It's guidence that actually brainwashes people. We've seen it with the evil god of release how his guidence caused the orcs to act like animals. This is also one of the points alda claims why vida has been compromised.

    She is being guided by zakkart(even though guidence ends if the guider dies) thats why she is teaming up with those filthy evil gods(who betrayed the dk and were promised support in this world for there invaluble help in defeating the dk and also help with reconstruction) so i sent our savior belwood(who is a guider but is toootally not brainwashing me) to deal with her.
     
  12. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Death attribute charm is enough to cause people of the opposite sex to consider you more attractive, such as with the ghouls, or to treat you better in general. That's already screwing with consent. Guidance also causes a change in the way people think and altered morals, such as people suddenly being okay with working with vampires, not minding cannibal allies and so on.
     
  13. secretish

    secretish Well-Known Member

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    Fairly sure Van's death charm would probably count as brainwashing, considering it can make a lot of undead basically immediately willing to die for him, and dramatically increases favorability from certain other species without there being a cause besides the charm skill. Brainwashing doesn't have to be only fully mind controlling them, like that one reincarnated person in origin is having done to them. The charm skill forcefully changes the beliefs of anything it affects to make them more friendly, and would definitely be considered brainwashing. It only doesn't look that bad because Van is treating those he charmed well most of the time (excluding spirits thrown into golems), but if somebody with more nefarious intentions had the same charming power, they could easily charm large groups of monsters and basically force them to die for the charmer.
     
  14. The Godly Aeolus

    The Godly Aeolus Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that either Charm or Guidance are quite as oppressive as you seem to think they are.

    As best as I can tell with what has already been written in the story, the effects of Charm are limited to a specific subgroup of beings, most of whom are already of an inclination to think favorably of the user in the first place. If these beings have any meaningful ego or willpower, they are stated to be able to resist or ignore Charm if they feel like it; Charming only really becomes dangerous or nefarious if the user also used some sort of brainwashing in order to break the egos of those he or she intends to Charm... though the damage the spirit takes in the instant of death has a similar effect on the ego as brainwashing, which is why people killed by Vandalieu suddenly want to please him. I can't recall any instances of Vandalieu actively brainwashing people specifically so that they could fall under his Charm, and it would be redundant anyway since anyone he brainwashes is likely to do whatever he commands already; he'd rather use that power to alter their memories so that they can't recall him being present, or to convince evildoers to turn themselves in to the authorities without any confrontations.

    Guidance is even less oppressive than Charm, actually. It is outright stated that you cannot fall under the effects of Guidance if you are absolutely opposed to the Guider and his or her ideals, and attempts by the Guider to force the issue will more-likely-than-not end in driving the other party insane, as was the case with the Spiritualists of the Amid Empire investigating the Scylla Territory. In other words, if someone falls under Guidance, it means that they were already somewhat open to being persuaded to follow the ideals espoused by the Guider in the first place. If a skilled orator couldn't have convinced them to follow the Guider with a passionate verbal argument, the Guidance skill wouldn't have been able to do it either.
     
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  15. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    I did make sure to use things that have actually happened as examples. Like the vampires thing being from the Hartner duchy arc with normal vampire fearing villagers suddenly not minding them at all.

    Also, 'meaningful will or ego' wouldn't include you or me. Only Borkus and Ternecia have been explicitly shown to resist death attribute charm at even lower levels with Gudamon not being able to resist at all once he died. Even Gordan was susceptible. As for active brainwashing, we do know that he relies on DAC for diplomacy and that he has at least considered tampering with prisoners' psyches so that they become more amenable, only to reject the idea.

    The thing about Guidance is that you don't have to agree entirely with what the Guider believes to fall under their guidance. Once you accept them as your superior, you begin being Guided and suddenly you don't care too much about what the Guider or his other followers do that might have repulsed you before.

    Are Guidance and Charm at the level of straight up brainwashing? No. Do they have absolutely clear effects on the way people think and activate regardless of whether the person wants them to or not? Yes. That's their entire point.
     
  16. Donce

    Donce Well-Known Member

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    I will add to The Godly Aeolus answer.
    If you want to be hero in Lambda you need to be guider. In other worlds it is considered as good thing. Heinz too is a guider and brainwash other people. And with this brainwashing comes increase in power.
    I think Van Charm works only on undead and this who wants to die. In both cases it makes undead sentient and friendly to leaving. Helps people who wants to die to start leaving again. What is wrong in this?
     
  17. Twilightnemesis

    Twilightnemesis Active Member

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    I feel i should add that charm also works on ghouls and vampires on account that the father of their races was an undead so it would also work on the children born to the undead in van’s kingdom (although i doubt that would be necessary).
     
  18. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    The problem, ethically speaking, is that it also makes all the ghouls want to shag him despite him being an infant. A creepy one at that. I don't think this is the result of their own will.
     
  19. Donce

    Donce Well-Known Member

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    Ethically speaking you think one thing is ethical and other thing unethical because you are brainwashed by your country. Here are tribes who think it is unethical to bury your parents in ground. You need to make mommy of your dead parents and keep them at home. Show them to guests. Or this
     
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  20. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    That is moral relativism, which is not the same thing as tampering with the thoughts and emotions of others through supernatural means.