Discussion Does anyone remember how powerful Goethe's Mephistopheles was?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Zheya, May 16, 2019.

  1. Zheya

    Zheya Well-Known Member

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    Opened tabs I did, and only one (villains wiki) shown me the famous version's feats.
    To my surprise, of course, this was not the original version of Mephistopheles. The original was a minor or lesser evil spirit, and the following version after that was the same, but slightly different focus on which sin propagated. The famous version we all come to know, is more powerful than it's previous forms.
    • Immortality (Stated to be older than the universe)
    • Dark Magic (Stated to be part of duality's half - source of all evil)
    • Shape Shifting (Stated to transform to a poodle)
    • Controlling Elements (Stated to repeatedly attempt to destroy the world, but left with only fire)
    • Mind Control (Stated to almost made people eat each other with hallucinations)
    • Reality Warping (Vague)
    I'll get to the point, what did Controlling Elements part meant? I did not read the story, because... reasons.
    If you happen to read it or know why, please tell if you remember. It seemed that Mephistopheles was capable of controlling all elements, but after repeated failures, and probably mysterious reasons, he had only fire left to control, except for space-time control and darkness as magic (not element). And how strong was Mephistopheles compared to other beings from Hell and Heaven?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  2. mr.heavy-reader

    mr.heavy-reader [Tony's Harem Manager][The Love Advisor][The-Abs]

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    what novels ?
     
  3. DiabolicGod

    DiabolicGod Well-known lazy Member

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    exactly. the original goethes Faust doesn't tell you all this
     
  4. Rickymex

    Rickymex Well-Known Member

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    He shouldn't be that powerful considering he's a devil and not The Devil. A worker for Satan or Lucifer for the most part and a former human victim of the same circumstances that Faust fell to.

    Also his controlling elements basically just means he can make fires at that point. Nothing to suggest 40 day floods or cat 5 hurricanes. The villains wiki even gives an example of him making a small fire.
     
  5. Yunchii

    Yunchii Second Best Waifu, GR G36

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    Goetia? I beat him at temple of times before... Mephitopeles? I think I accidentally killed him at Orleons.
     
  6. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Subtitles*

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    DC Comics I think since Faust was mentioned
     
  7. mr.heavy-reader

    mr.heavy-reader [Tony's Harem Manager][The Love Advisor][The-Abs]

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    oh, i thought it's from ao no exorcise
     
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  8. Zheya

    Zheya Well-Known Member

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    Spiess' Faust, Marlowe's Faust, and Goethe's Faust. Particularly Goethe's Faust.
    He is not the Devil, but a servant of the Devil. I dare not say he is powerful as renown demons of old or angels of high. I do say, except God, the Devil, and particular Arch-demons and Archangels, how powerful is he?

    True, it did say he conjured a small flame, but the it also so said that he tried destroying the world countless times, and with only fire left for him, because without it, he would have nothing. Perhaps this is just an assumption of mine, but to me, it seems he had "rights" over countless elements of the world, until "someone" or "something" made it he only controlled fire. Dark magic seems to be a different force than the elements. Yes, this an assumption, but based on this, it would mean he has the potential, if not power, to destroy the "world".
    Ars Goetia is about the 72 Demons from the Lesser Key of Solomon. Mephistopheles is not there.
    Not comics, but the literary novels. Goethe's Faust.
    The Mephisto in Blue Exorcist is based on him, but with a little twist [alteration].
    Mephisto's true name is Samael, another identity akin to the Devil, and demon prince that rules over time.
     
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  9. mr.heavy-reader

    mr.heavy-reader [Tony's Harem Manager][The Love Advisor][The-Abs]

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    Mephisto's true name is Samael, another identity akin to the Devil, and demon prince that rules over time.
    samael ? I thought samael is angel, fallen angel then
     
  10. Zheya

    Zheya Well-Known Member

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    In the universe of Blue Exorcist, there are no angels, only demons [spirits]. Demons aligned to good could be classified as angels, or good spirits of particular elements [angels, divine animals, etc.]. In this universe, there is no apparent God yet, but the being close or equivalent to God in Blue Exorcist is Satan. In the manga, Satan was something beyond comprehension, and akin to the universe itself made sentient but with no willpower or will.
    Satan's origin is the universe itself. It was originally a small energy of little spiritual awareness. Roaming about the universe or Earth in particular, and Rin's mother, Yuri as a small orphan child made contact with the being not yet named Satan. Eventually, this small deviant spirit known for it's bluish flames or candle flickers, was destructive in nature due to low intelligence or control. This spirit became Yuri's best friend or familiar/companion in a traditional sense. In the course of events, Yuri met Shiro [the Priest and adopted Father] and the two became entangled in a sort of relationship. Years later, the spirit accidentally steals Lucifer's vessel made by the scientists for Lucifer and other demons to be "born". The child-like demon is curious, very intelligent and almost pure in nature, yet it's destructive power cannot be controlled, unless Yuri is there. As we both know, the child-like demon in the adult's vessel, originally Lucifer's, spent most of it's time studying about the culture, history, and knowledge of everything. Eventually, it learned about Satan, and it named itself Satan. From thereon, Satan proclaimed himself god of demons, king, ruler, etc. He also started to become demonic in nature, with countless black particles (spirits) attracted to him. He also started created demons around his surroundings, with him aging with this defective body.

    Long-story short: The Blue Night would never had happened, if the humans left Satan and Yuri alone in their love nest. Unfortunately, we both know what event happens, and how furious and twisted Satan became even more with her death.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  11. userunfriendly

    userunfriendly A Wild Userunfriendly Appears!

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    I thought this thread was about “The Devil is a Part Timer”...:p
     
  12. Zheya

    Zheya Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised by the amount of people either not knowing Goethe's Mephistopheles, or mistaking Mephistopheles with another demon.
     
  13. jbturkle

    jbturkle [Fruit]

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    Mephistopheles and Faust is a less well-known tale. Mephisto's origin is German folklore, so only those who have encountered stuff like that (or referencing this) would know of them.
     
  14. Zheya

    Zheya Well-Known Member

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    I had read an article stating that though Mephistopheles maybe a demon created just for this legend, the existence behind Mephistopheles refers back when Marduk still ruled, and it was theorized that Mephistopheles was the counterpart of Marduk.

    I would not be surprised if Mephistopheles would be a fallen god or something more than just a demon, because how can an ordinary demon make an audience with archangels, roam freely, and gamble with God? Of course, we may never know the true origins of the demon, but we do know, Mephistopheles is older than the age of creation. It would interesting which was his original existence, before the change in pantheons throughout the eras. So many gods have fallen, with only few old gods being remembered and worshiped with the known gods today.
     
  15. userunfriendly

    userunfriendly A Wild Userunfriendly Appears!

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    I'm sorry, I'm familiar with Goethe and I've even read some Marlowe. I just like to sh!tpost...:blobtongue:

    Though my favorite classics author is...Doyle. :D

    Of the ancients, I prefer the Illiad to the Odyssey, and I've actually read Virgil...:giggle: And I've read Gilgamesh, Beowulf, and parts of Chansen De Roland...:rolleyes: