Eastern novels on western settings

I've read korean novels before but most of them were set in korea or were set in a stage/game world so i never really took notice of little nuances here and there.

Currently reading trash of count's family.

From the first 2-3 chapters, i already get that the setting is something like medieval europe, it is even stated on the novel itself.

So it was glaring to me when i read the part where a butler called the count as count-nim.

Before that, i forgot the chapters already but i think there were atleast 2 chapters before that but there were never any korean honorifics so i was immersed in the story.

Anyways, i tried to make this post after reading that but i thought to myself that maybe that was just a fluke? but now there are more korean honorifics. like calling someone 'noona' which obviously doesnt fit the current setting.

I would like to ask the translators and readers here, if it is 'more' correct to translate them in context, like 'noona' to 'older sister' if the setting was western.

since the novel was originally written in korean so ofcourse the author who is korean would write 'noona'(korean characters) because that is their language.

Idk it's a confusing thought.

EDIT: I'm trying hard right now to remember instances when i watched anime or read manga/japanese novels/lightnovels where they would address someone like that like 'king-san' or 'wizard-san'.

Idk, i'll just ask because whenever i watch anime, i always use subs instead of dubs. That was just how i was used to watching it and could never adapt to dubs. But let's say in naruto, in japanese they would call naruto as naruto-kun or uzumaki-kun. In dubs, do they keep that? or do they just call him naruto? or if you're a bleach fan, do dubs call ichigo as ichigo or ichigo-kun especially if its a line by inoue(the annoying healer girl).

 

I don't mind the honorifics, even if it's a western setting. There may be some which have no exact English equivalent. I'd rather TLs kept the honorifics than lose out their nuances when replacing with the nearest English counterpart.

Maybe some actual TLs can shed more light on this issue; my knowledge is pretty limited. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

It's only a problem the first few times i encounter them since they're pretty out of place. It would be like if i were to go to europe and people(europeans) started calling my name with added korean honorifics.

I'll get used to it as chapters goes by but i was curious. I also asked a similar question about chinese novel translations for how lightning and thunder mean/can mean the same thing in chinese.

 

I suppose it depends on the translator and the writer of course (interactions/dialogues are usully influenced by the writer's nationality an other things)

 

Definitely not a fan of eastern honorifics in translations, but one thing you should take into account is that a proper translation that retains the nuances would require a rather strong grasp of the intricacies of English as a language. Many translations I read in the past clearly were made by non-native speakers or in general people who did not have a background in linguistics, so such a translation would be rather hard to achieve, at least on a level where it would feel natural.

I guess this is just one of those compromises that you have to make when reading things that would otherwise not receive a proper translation.

 

I'm okay with honorifics, just don't throw me a desu~ at the end of a sentence please.

 

Well first of all, even if it is a western setting, since this isn't earth, they aren't speaking any latin language or any asian language. They are speaking the language of that world which could be anything. So to say western setting should not have this isn't really correct.

Now if you want to talk about translation and proper translation to english, that would be a different story. Though you generally don't call someone "older sister" in english. You would call them miss, sister or aunt. Maybe even a pet word like auntie if its spoken by a child.

 

Okay, desu.

 

The others here said it there is little of equivalent in English language. Some gags would not work, so more work for translator and editor (some of them are not native English speaker so it is a lot more work).
The way to “study” the right way to replace all san, nims, samas etc could be a work for a bachelor degree in English or vis versa in the Asian language.
The other problem is the author has written it that way and as “hobby” translator the community try to be as near on the original as it can be done.
I have not read a san,nim etc in a published translation jet but i know that if the author insist on it would be done. The problem is that “expression” of respect or intimacy would be lost if the whole sentence would be not rewritten which would be not a translation and can be done only with the authors permit...

 

most of the time what grinds my gears with this topic is when they use an honorific that basically means the same thin as the western honorific, for example calling someone Lord fattybutt - sama where it's my understanding that -sama basically means lord ...

 

If it's a an alternate world can you really classify it as western setting?
It is really jarring when a novel which has multiple areas being eastern and western and uses the same honorifics. What's the point in adding the other areas if there really just the same place pretending to be something else.
There are a few good stories where either the author or translator did swap honorific upon setting change.

 

Yes, cause Trash of the Count's family takes place in the western continent and there is also an eastern continent

 

That's the fault of the Department of Redundancy Department.

 

Part of the problem is sometimes it is the *author* that writes his culture into a foreign setting and so the translator has to end up translating words that don't match the location. This isn't limited to Eastern authors, I once read a book, published, not web, where an author made a Malay man in Indonesia (story plot) sound like someone from the Bronx with his word choices.

 

The novel specifically stated that it was in a european setting so ofcourse we would default to english. Even then, your logic isn't sound because according to your logic, since it is a fantasy world it should have its own language. The author then could just simply write the whole novel in giberrish and tell the readers that it is a story written in the language of that world. That's why novels generally are grounded by basis in real life otherwise there's really no way for readers to understand.

It's like finding nemo, but the fishes speak in english, they have human behaviours.

As for your 2nd point, i merely game an example of 'noona' = 'older sister' because noona in korean means older female in english(if you have and older sister, you would call her noona in korea). I couldv written older anything. It was just an example. It doesnt have any story context.

 

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The story itself explained the setting as to being european.

 

You are delusional my friend if you are talking about your sister you won’t ever say miss or aunt... In English you will always say some form of sister. If you are referring to a sister who is older then you and trying to point that out you’d use older sister. This is one of the two times you would use older sister the other would be comparing the ages of two siblings.

Also if a country is supposed to not be like the home country I personally find it extremely weird tho bearable for said home countries honourifics to show up.

 

You clearly misread what I was saying. In 1st paragraph I was talking about the author using nim because it is korean which would be fine because the originating language is not western. Then I went in the 2nd paragraph to address the translators choice to continue to use nim. I then went on in the 2nd paragraph to point out the proper way of translating it.

Please reread what I wrote carefully.

I think you are confused. Noona is same as One-san/Onesama, it does not have to literally refer to "sister", any female older person who you are trying to be friendly with can be referred to as noona. Obviously if someone is your real sister, you would not call them aunt or etc. But you also would not call them older sister unless you are talking about them in 3rd person.

 

It's easier to understand when oneechan, oniisan, ototo, hyung, noona, sunbae, etc, is used instead of older sister, younger brother. Or honorifics, like -san, -kun, to understand the elvel of intimacy/closeness.
Also I never heard in western culture to call their own older sister as older sister, uncle as uncle. If they tell it to other people, they might use 'my younger brother, your older sister', but usually they call each other with names, right?
In eastern culture, we have and always use different honorifics with man/woman that's older and younger than ourself. Just like gege, jijie, hyung, noona, thing. But there's none of that in western.

 

Nah you often end up calling them brother or sister. Only time you will call them by name generally is when ur talking about them to others or trying to get attention of them. Cause people are more used to being called by their name if their attention is needed.

How is onee-san easier to understand then say younger brother in English as someone who these days rarely reads Japanese novels because of this sort of thing being so prevalent I can tell you without any grasp of Japanese it can get very confusing especially with some novels with how little context these things are given.

Also English does have terms for an older/younger woman/man who aren’t related to differentiate age such as hag for old women. They are usually just derogatory or have fallen out of use like lass and lad/laddie which is why translators and people like you probably forget they exist.