Discussion Genre I Hate: Gender-Bender

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by sleib, May 20, 2021.

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  1. pass1478

    pass1478 I'm in Despair!

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    These types of gender benders are just flat out self inserts by the authors.
     
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  2. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    This is very much true, but I don't see how it's a bad thing. It's a good way for a writer to step out of his comfort zone and and branch out. In the better case scenarios it leads to writers growing to the point where they manage to learn how to write female characters leading to better stories down the line. In the last few years, a couple of the best books I've read are genderbender novels that are exactly like this. And really, what in the world is lost when this technique is used?
     
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  3. ListlessCat

    ListlessCat ࿈༼The Anarchic Witch༽࿈ ⦑⤉notsoGoody Good Shoes⤈⦒

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    I have never read any gender-bender stories because I am not comfortable with it.... or its really just not my type૮⍝◜•⚇•◝⍝ა
    Also SCREW harems its just a way for men to fantasized of having many womens (proven and tested by my brother)
     
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  4. Nimroth

    Nimroth Someone

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    I somewhat disagree on the first point, in that I think stories where the character transform against their will can work, but it definitely need to show the character struggling to accept it if that is the case.
    Way too often I've seen it just played for laughs.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2021
  5. Deleted member 176237

    Deleted member 176237 Guest

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    I'd probably commit neckrope if I ever get gender bended irl, Another reason to kms. Tbh I'm fine with Gender Benders as long as they turn it off by will just like Kämpfer and Ore no Twintails but not characters who were Gender bended against their will (except a few exceptions obviously) But Otherwise I couldn't fathom how the MCs can stay happy go lucky after being Gender Bended. Youjo Senki imo has the best reaction after getting Gender Bended and is one of the few Gender Bender Novels I liked.
     
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  6. Ddraig

    Ddraig Frostfire Dragon|Retired lurker|FFF|Loved by RNG

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    That is a rather extreme option that I doubt most would take tbh.
     
  7. Lois.

    Lois. ❲.❳ Wooosh.

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    Ehhhh turning into the opposite gender isn't really imo that bad the characters just reacts unrealistically lol. It's not like I dislike the whole gender bender thing either but usually the MCs don't think even a bit realistically and that's what turns me off in some gender bender stories but then again sometimes the setting is so ridiculous it's entertaining to read. My bad.
     
  8. sleib

    sleib Well-Known Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
    Involuntary gender change has been done before in the real world. Saying it will just work is like saying conversion therapy will work. The suicide rate is already high among the trans community after gender change happens willingly and you are basically artificially creating one.

    I disagree, it's quite likely to happen. The chances might change depending on the age of the character though.
     
  9. Nimroth

    Nimroth Someone

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    I'm saying the story itself "can" work, not that the gender change should work.
    Or are you saying we can't have stories about characters struggling with things like gender dysphoria?
     
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  10. sleib

    sleib Well-Known Member

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    More focus on gender dysphoria would make the story better. If the large focus was on that struggle it would be more interesting. If they showed struggle and them trying to change their body back to what they think is their real gender, like many people with gender dysphoria want, it would be much more interesting. Let's take Ranma 1/2 for example, I liked that one even though it was a gender bender. While the series was comedic and MC could be male unless dosed with water, it did sometimes show how he struggled, cried, and how much he wanted to get rid of the curse.

    Anime Ranma 1/2 was good too.
     
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  11. A Certain G.I.R.L.

    A Certain G.I.R.L. Well-Known Member

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    As someone that hates the body I was born with... It's not that simple.

    It's hard to deal with day to day life when you cry each time you see yourself in the mirror. Or when you hate seeing yourself as you shower... When the sight of your genitals disgust you.

    I can't say it would affect you much, since each person is unique... But for someone that is comfortable and happy with their bodies, having it suddenly changed to a different gender would be quite the struggle.
    There are plenty of gender benders out there that show the character struggling with gender issues.

    Seems like you're trying to judge a genre by its bad stories instead of by the good ones. If you do that, then every genre is trash.
     
  12. God slayer

    God slayer New Member

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    :blobrofl::blobrofl::blobrofl::blobrofl: I don't read gender bender at all .... Except Tania The Saga of evil.... This one is just great!!! Anime is also great (at least it feels like that to me) and except this one.... I avoid any gender bender novels
     
  13. Shadowdrop

    Shadowdrop Well-Known Member

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    I don't like non-consensual gender-bender (or non-consensual anything, really), but sometimes it's really funny when it's done right.
    For example, I'm reading a novel MC has to win games in alternative dimension, and in his first game he had the role (and therefore body) of a pretty, big-chested girl. But there was no romance while he was in a girl's body, and he also was very resourceful, using his status as most beautiful girl to his advantage.
    I think the only problem with gender-bender is when it is connected to romance/sex or lasts long enough to affect a person's life, but when it's only used for comedy or as a plot device, it's fine.
     
  14. Llamadragon

    Llamadragon Well-Known Member

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    I used to think the same, I'm on the enbee spectrum so I don't have a very strong attachment to my assigned gender. But then I cut off my hair. I loved the look of it, loved the feel of it, loved how practical it was, and the 'mis'-gendering is a gender euphoria thing for me. But I couldn't keep it short. Because on some days it sent me down the dysphoria path. And that was with me loving everything about the haircut. And it was JUST the haircut and I knew it would grow back, and I'm NON-BINARY and partially identify as a guy. And I still woke up crying on some days because my hair was short. It sucked that bad. Dysphoria isn't logical at all, it just hits you, sometimes for no discernable reason. I'm not particularly emotional either. I probably cried more over that silly haircut than I did for some people I really liked who died. It's just a nausea that hits you even if it doesn't make any sense for it to do so.

    A straight cis guy getting forcefully gender bent would... likely not have a good time. Personally I don't mind gender-bender stories but the characters I like reading about are typically the ones who are either trans to begin with and think the change is positive, or probably agender or genderfluid or something like that and, like you, don't really care. Or perhaps someone who is generally dissiciative and thus don't really notice the change. I'm less of a fan of stories where it's just... there, and never get addressed, as if it's unimportant. It is most certainly not.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
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  15. sleib

    sleib Well-Known Member

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    When you think about it, you basically give a person body of the gender completely opposite of what they identify with. I would imagine their reaction and problems should be similar to people with gender dysphoria. While I myself do not have gender dysphoria, anyone can tell they go through quite a lot of struggle. Some(not all) go through pricy gender surgeries to have the body they want and even after(or before) doing that suicide rate is very high. So yeah...it would not be good to force that on someone. That's the main reason some stories made me dislike the genre so much(and David Reimer real life story).
    Some more comedic ones and ones where MC might have already wanted it, I do not mind
     
  16. bkwusa

    bkwusa Well-Known Member

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    Why does it matter if the person is straight or a guy? Sexual preference has nothing to do with being or not being trans. If a gay/bi guy or a les/bi/straight woman had their gender changed against their will they would have the same issues as a straight guy.

    This statement is also quite problematic, as plenty of people manage to be trans without committing suicide. You are implying that you can't be trans without wanting to kill yourself.
     
  17. sleib

    sleib Well-Known Member

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    The problem is your sense of logic if you came to that conclusion after reading what I wrote. In real world people who transition are people who do it by choice, so my statement obviously does not apply to them. At least read what people wrote properly before replying and making such disgusting accusations.
     
  18. A Certain G.I.R.L.

    A Certain G.I.R.L. Well-Known Member

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    I think you're exaggerating their point. Sleib said that many would commit suicide mainly because suicide rate amongst the trans population is high. I don't think they implied that being trans automatically means one is suicidal.
    On that note, I wouldn't call it a choice much. It's more of a necessity than a choice.

    To be perfectly honest, going through the transition process is a big pain. I have to go to the doctor regularly, do voice training at home, take some relatively expensive medication, go through a bunch of bureaucracy to change my documents, etc. It's really way too much of a bother, I would never do it if I felt like I had a choice, but I don't feel like that. I just need to go through the transition so as to not hate myself.

    I don't like it being painted as a choice because I never felt like I had any choice. I was just born the wrong sex and am fixing it to not go crazy.
     
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  19. SylviaViolet

    SylviaViolet Burnt-Out Reader⚓️

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    Stopppppp!
    You said there's plenty of Female to Male GBs?
    Where? I've almost never read any and I'd definitely like to try reading a few.....
     
  20. nonononononono

    nonononononono NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

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    Gender-Bender + Yuri = good shit
     
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