Question Help with translating chinese poem

Discussion in 'Translator's Corner' started by RuiSi, Jul 25, 2021.

  1. RuiSi

    RuiSi Well-Known Member

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    This line of poem below:
    氓之蚩蚩,抱布贸丝。匪来贸丝,来即我谋
    No context needed for this, it's just a poem
    Any help is appreciated
    Thanks.
    I'm thinking of something like:
    The ignorant rogue, held cloths and traded silk. The bandits come to trade silk, 来即我谋
    Not sure what the last line means
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  2. Little Potato

    Little Potato Sexiest Potato Alive [SpaceBar's Master]

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    A simple search on Baidu is all you need to decode your poem
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/卫风·氓/10240643
    Translating it to 白话文, it's:
    憨厚农家小伙子,怀抱布匹来换丝。其实不是真换丝,找个机会谈婚事。
    A straightforward young peasant, carried cloth to exchange for silk, yet in reality, his purpose was not to exchange for silk, but to look for an opportunity to bring up a marriage proposal.
     
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  3. RuiSi

    RuiSi Well-Known Member

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    Oh cool, thanks for sharing your knowledge of decoding poems!

    @Little Potato
    What do you think of translating it so:
    "The ignorant rogue, traded silks with cloths. A bandit that came to trade silk, is here with a scheme."

    Just to keep the poem aspect of it
     
  4. nonononononono

    nonononononono NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

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    氓, in this case, isn't rogue
    匪, in this case, isn't bandit
    1. 氓:《说文》:“氓,民也。”本义为外来的百姓,这里指自彼来此之民,男子之代称。蚩(chī)蚩:通“嗤嗤”,笑嘻嘻的样子。一说憨厚、老实的样子。
    2. 匪(fēi),通“非”。即,走近,靠近。谋,商量。
     
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  5. RuiSi

    RuiSi Well-Known Member

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    Hmm right, was only thinking of translating directly and only taking some of the poem meanings
    Let me think again

    @nonononononono
    "The ignorant man, traded silks with cloths. However, he who came to trade silk, is actually here with a scheme."

    How's this version
     
  6. Guan Zhong

    Guan Zhong Well-Known Member

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    You should re-read what Little Potato posted, it has the correct translation. This is a poem from the 詩經, which is quite old, so sometimes the words have different meanings than the commonly used ones of today.

    I have a book that analyzes these poems, here's some explanations from it:

    氓之蚩蚩 - 氓 is common folk/peasant, not rogue. It can refer to a person who has left their native place and moved elsewhere as well 蚩蚩 means plain and honest, so it's just a rustic commoner.

    抱布貿絲 - 布, is probably cloth here because it's a commoner, but might also refer to spade money 布幣.

    匪来贸丝 - 匪 here is just 非, so it means "not", not "bandit". 匪 is used this way several times in 詩經.

    來即我謀 - 即 is 接近, 謀 is 商量 (that is, discussing a marriage arrangement).


    James Legge's translation:

    氓之蚩蚩、抱布貿絲。
    匪來貿絲、來即我謀。
    送子涉淇、至于頓丘。
    匪我愆期、子無良媒。
    將子無怒、秋以為期。

    A simple-looking lad you were,
    Carrying cloth to exchange it for silk.
    [But] you came not so to purchase silk; -
    You came to make proposals to me.
    I convoyed you through the Qi,
    As far as Dunqiu.
    ' It is not I, ' [I said], ' who would protract the time;
    But you have had no good go-between.
    I pray you be not angry,
    And let autumn be the time. '

    EDIT: Also, note that "silk" and "cloth" are mass nouns, their plural does not take an "s" on the end (so silks and cloths is not correct). You need a measure word, like "bolt of silk", "two bolts of silk", etc., to talk about more than one. To talk about them in general, as here, just keep them in singular form "silk" and "cloth".

    Also, this poem is from the point of view of the girl being proposed to.
     
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  7. RuiSi

    RuiSi Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your detailed explanation, chinese is a really fascinating language ain't it