How did isekai became so big

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by MarxDarkBear, May 23, 2019.

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  1. lnv

    lnv ✪ Well-Known Hypocrite

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    Because most isekai is wish fulfillment, in this case the japanese audience who are in a work driven society where they want to run away and relax. Hence the slice of life and isekai going more in the direction where they need to do less and less work to be OP and just have it easier.

    They are simply pandering to the audience who buys. Just look at death march which came out early in the isekai craze, Satou actually had to put in some work the first few volumes. The LN which came later "modernized" and he gets a much easier time. And even that is still more work than those that have the MC be OP simply by being human or breathing...


    If I were going to summon someone, I'd easily pick highschoolers, why? Because they are above the age where they can move around but below the age to know how the world works. So they are easy to manipulate due to their naiveness. (this is actually a common theme amongst group summon high school students where the ones who summoned them are using them)



    What's wrong with an adventurers guild? It is simply a trope and isn't exactly a bad one. I can easily name 5 isekai where MC doesn't join an adventurers guild, but saying "join an academy" is a bit unfair. I mean sure, education wasn't as common in middle ages other than for nobles, but other than that it isn't uncommon... I mean watch, let me predict your 5 closest friends, they all went to school. If they off chance they didn't, they are working. Am I right? That doesn't mean your friends are predictable, it simply means they fall into a pretty common demographic.


    Welcome to wish fulfillment

    Don't forget Japanese values! Slavery is wrong! Unless the MC is the one doing it than it is a-ok cause they treat their slaves well.


    The long names are there so people can grasp what it is about because with so much content, people are too lazy to read summaries.

    Though I do notice that most LN/Manga covers show more of the female characters than the male ones, some don't even show the male MC on the cover, makes you wonder who the MC really is.

    Because they are tailored towards the japanese audience, you don't understand it because you come from a different culture.

    Same applies to CN ones where people in power try to suppress the MC and he murders them all.

    It is wish fulfilment that fits into their cultures. If you don't understand their culture, it won't make sense either.

    For example, imagine using up your vacation days when you are sick and only after you are out of vacation days can you use sick days. Sounds fun? Welcome to japan.
     
  2. ediav42

    ediav42 Well-Known Member

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    If I were to guess why it became popular is due to it (in)directly granting people’s wish of leaving their mundane lives behind for a greater calling or such (even if it isn’t serious, everyone has at least at one point been bored with there life and isekai as a genre addresses to a degree).

    As for tropes (which aren’t inherently a bad thing as the general likelihood of having a protagonist and antagonist is a trope on its own with many sub genres) and there overuse or misuse, that really depends on the author and the reader. Since you have read several, you abhor them and would rather something more unique, but others could enjoy them and like these benchmarks as they are familiar and such (of course, even these people would get annoyed if the author misuses them).

    Now I will give a recommendation to you that I find rather unique in its execution (don’t want to get your expectations up as they may disappoint you and you miss out on a good read from not being patient enough) https://www.novelupdates.com/series/the-death-mage-who-doesnt-want-a-fourth-time/?pg=16
    You should at least read until Talosheim before giving a judgement I feel. Amusingly, they also deconstruct, explain and make fun of tropes such as why the guild receptionist has a tendency to be a pretty young female (to make the adventurers work harder as it has a tendency to make the interaction more pleasant with a fair member of the opposite sex than a macho man, but there are some of them too; and girls could relax a little with someone of the same gender who is professional and such).
     
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  3. Einzwalker

    Einzwalker Cook-Protagonist Hater

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    Japanese culture and the way it grinds people to dust in the workforce it’s why the Isekai genre is so popular, salarymen apparently literally want to die and go to another world because their jobs suck.
     
  4. vlue

    vlue Jaded Isekai-Reader

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    Sometimes i have to wonder, maybe there's good Isekai but are buried and instead we see the ones being translated are the translators shit taste.
     
  5. NeoPhantom

    NeoPhantom Active Member

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    Yeah there are a lot of Isekai with those traits, as well as many (admittedly less so) with different traits.

    Foremost being Warlock of the Magus World, When a Mage Revolts, Lord of Mysteries, Magic Academy by Dracomir.

    Then theres the likes of The Alchemist God, Arifureta, 100 Luck by Dracomir and Master of Monsters which while having bits of the traits you mentioned are in fact polar opposite stories.

    Then theres the clear outliers such ad Re:Monster and Reborn:Evolving from Nothing where the main character isn't even humanoid in the beginning or even follow the tropes you mentioned.

    Finding good Isekai is about isn't that hard once you learn what to avoid. Oh and for the record, of the previous namedrops only the ones from Dracomir joins a guild and mostly as a joke way after they become strong.
     
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  6. Vudoodude

    Vudoodude Well-Known Member

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    "Name me 5 fucking isekai novels where the mc doesn't join a fucking adventures guild. I bet you fucking can't."
    Hmm...let's try this...
    Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka? (not 100% sure, but at least the part I read up to a long while back, she was still a monster in a cave)
    Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken (if i'm not mistaken he doesn't really join an adventurer guild, there is one, but he's busy being mayor)
    Knights & Magic (He's in an academy, but doesn't join an adventurer guild...because they don't exist?)
    Isekai Nonbiri Nouka (he just farms and founds his own town?)
    Death March kara Hajimaru Isekai Kyusoukyoku (if I'm not mistaken, mind you there are a shitload of chapters so I could be wrong, but he doesn't join an adventurer guild...he's a "merchant").
    Isekai Izakaya Nobu (it's a restaurant...)
    Isekai Ryouridou (he just cooks)
    Takarakuji de 40-oku Atattandakedo Isekai ni Ijuu Suru (at least from what I've read up to)

    As someone else has mentioned, if you cut out the details then things of the same genre start sounding similar. It's the small differences between the plots that make them seem "different". I guess it should be viewed more like fan fiction, where you take a previously existing idea and say "what if the story was like this instead". But I guess one of the most important reasons is that some of the points you mentioned are the main features of Japanese isekai. It'd be like asking why every dungeon and dragon story has orcs, taverns, elves, dungeons, and dragons? Isekai may seem like a genre of limitless possibilities, but when you scrutinize it carefully you start to realize that it has to have certain components in order to make it "real isekai".

    For example, how often do you see an isekai in a future sci-fi world? Why does this concept seem kind of off? Why does isekai have to be in a medieval fantasy setting with monsters nearly all of the time? Whether it is because of one or two popular series establishing precedence, or because of excessive repetition, isekai doesn't simply mean "other world/parallel world" anymore, but has other mandatory subjects that make it a "isekai". Just having a story in another world isn't enough to be isekai anymore, it needs to be a fantasy world with monsters. It has to have a god/goddess involved, it has to have a cheat or unique gift for the MC, it has to have an adventurer guild. How do you have an other world adventure without adventurer guild (sarcasm)!

    Isekai has become an established genre and label that automatically evokes certain expectations within the readers. When a reader sees isekai, they'll automatically start to expect certain things, and these are the very things that make the genre popular. As some has mentioned, it's not just wish fulfillment but escapism as well. People who want to read isekai don't want to be bogged down by drama, they don't want to be educated by deep philosophical concepts, nor do they want to be enlightened by works that induced self-reflection and self-improvement. These people just want to read something light and satisfying that requires very little mental, emotional, or physical involvement.

    This is why isekai tends not to be original or unique. This is why most isekai follow a formulaic plot and has some mandatory components. This is why you see a lot of slice of life elements rather than deep and moving plots with advancing storyline. The people reading isekai aren't looking for foie gras and caviar, they are not looking for a gastronomical masterpiece created by a Michelin star chef that will send their taste buds to Shangri-la. They're just looking for instant-noodles, something that can satisfy them fast and easy, during the short breaks they have in their daily grind.

    And honestly, this is kind of the reason why isekai's are so "popular" and "abundant". Because they are so formulaic, generic, and somewhat bland, they aren't that offensive or polarizing as some other genres like horror, drama, or BL. This means that they will be read by a larger demographic without alienating too many groups. When you start twisting or changing the genre with your own unique ideas, these stories start straying from the trope isekai genre, which often causes the series to become disassociated with isekai. This only reinforces and amplifies the perception that isekai is very repetitive, because stories that are unique are no longer recognized as "true isekai".

    Anyways, that's my 2 cents. TLDR;; that's what isekai is. Don't go to KFC if you want fine dining.
     
  7. Raphenox

    Raphenox Well-Known Member

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    That's why I've transitioned slowly to Korean Novels. Regardless of the template used, what we really care about in a story is world building and good characterization, something that does not happen in most isekai novels. Korean Novels are slightly better at this noted by the current ranking of the novels.

    This is what made the Marvel Universe so great. Because we can see struggle, growth, and hard earned success with a tablespoon of mystery. We can sympathize with the characters and learn to care about their lives and the world they live in. That or a well developed world with satire.

    This simply does not happen in most isekai novels. Must of the traits that isekai characters have are trivial/generic. The same app the world like you pointed out. The only main focus they have is the "underdog" element. This can take to form of secret powers, a powerful item, or something that does not originate from the actual character. My suggestion is to look into novels/anime/manga that do care about character development and world building. Here are a few that you might find you like:

    Chinese:
    Douluo Dalu (Soul Land) (novel)
    Release that Witch (novel)
    Crossing to the Future, it’s Not Easy to Be a Man (novel)
    Transmigrator Meets Reincarnator (novel)
    Superstars of Tomorrow (novel)
    The Rebirth of the Malicious Empress of Military Lineage (novel)
    -To a lesser degree-
    The Human Emperor (novel)
    The Amber Sword (novel)
    Genius Doctor: Black Belly Miss (novel)

    Korean:
    Novel's Extra (novel)
    Trash of the Count's Family (novel)
    The Second Coming of Avarice (novel)
    Running Away From the Hero! -Remake- (novel)
    - To a lesser degree -
    Main Character Hides His Strength (novel)
    Reincarnator (novel)

    Japanese:
    Re:Zero (anime)
    Log Horizon (anime)
    KonoSuba (anime)
    No Game No Life (anime)
    My Death Flags Show No Sign of Ending (novel)
    Kenkyo, Kenjitsu o Motto ni Ikite Orimasu (novel)
    Common Sense of a Duke's Daughter (novel)
    - To a lesser degree -
    That Time I Got Reincarnated As A Slime (novel/anime)
    I’m A Spider, So What? (novel)
    To Be a Power in the Shadows! (novel)
    It Seems Like I Got Reincarnated Into The World of a Yandere Otome Game (novel)
    Duke's Daughter Who is Liable to Die and the Seven Nobles (novel)

    In conclusion, yes there are plenty of terrible isekai novels out there, but there are also plenty of good ones. You just have to find it and hope its been translated.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  8. Baabaablack

    Baabaablack Well-Known Member

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    For a short answer isekai is a easy fantasy genre to follow for a preteen audience. They world works like they seen in video games and jrpgs. At that age they are big on the wish fulfillments aspects of isekai. No refined taste has been devolped.
    For an older demographic it help to look at the average Japanese man (for who read and those write isekai). A lot of them are stuck in a six day a week office Job that chances are, they really don't like. It is not unheard of for people to people to die of overwork in japan. Shit they even have word for it. Most of those people want a reality on which they have control over thier life with nobody telling them what have to do. There more details to look at but this is what I understand off the top of my head.
     
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  9. vlue

    vlue Jaded Isekai-Reader

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    I don't think Isekai is that popular or Mainstream in Japan. You know the average Isekai's protagonist? Otakus.
     
  10. Chrono Vlad

    Chrono Vlad 『Banned From Drinking』

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    Cuz it sells and is currently a trend in Japan.

    Just like how Tsunderes took over several years ago... :notlikeblob:
     
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  11. Deleted member 182385

    Deleted member 182385 Guest

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    My issue with Isekai is how 90% of authors take a great concept ripe with possibility, and just make the most safe and generic and inoffensive possible stories with it.
     
  12. Kuro_0ni

    Kuro_0ni Cocooned in a Life transition

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    It's a troupe. its a common theme. World crossing or "Isekai" could literally be any form.

    Naming titles which an Adventurer's guild is not the focus.

    1. Drifters (Manga - 2009) (Anime - 2016)
    2. No Game No Life (Light Novel - 2012) (Manga - 2013) (Anime - 2017)
    3. Gate: Thus the Japanese Self-Defense Force Fought There (Novels - 2006) (Manga - 2011) (Anime - 2016)
    4. The Familiar of Zero (Novels - 2004) (Manga - 2006) (Anime - 2006)
    5. Inuyasha (Manga - 1996) (Anime - 2000) (Novel - 2004)
    6. Fushigi Yugi (Novel - 1998 )(Manga -1992) (Anime - 1995)
    7. Magic Knight Rayearth (Manga - 1993) (Anime - 1994)
    8. Demon King from Today! (Novel - 2000) (Anime - 2004) (Manga - 2005)
    9. Digimon Adventure (Anime - 1996) (Novel - 2001)
    10. The Vision of Escaflowne (Novel - 1996) (Manga - 1994) (Anime - 2000)
    11. Aura Battler Dunbine (Anime - 1983)
    12. Shinning Tears X Wind (Anime - 2007)
    13. The wrong way to use healing magic (Novel - 2014) (Manga - 2017)
    14. How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom (Novel 2016) (Manga - 2017)
    15. I shall Survive Using Potions (Novel - 2015) (Manga - 2017)
    16. Ascendance of a Bookworm (Novel - 2013) (Manga - 2015)
    17. I opened an Orphanage in a Different World, But why doesn't anyone want to leave? (Novel - 2016) (Manga - 2018)
    18. The Saint's Magic Power is Omnipotent (Novel - 2016) (Manga - 2017)
    19. Returning to Another World after being Summoned a Second Time (Novel - 2015) (Manga - 2018)
    20. Konjiki no Moji Tsukai [Golden Word Master] (Novel - 2013) (Manga - 2014)

    It's a re-occurring theme. give it another couple years, people will be burnt out by this.

    Edit: I've named more than 5 titles, can I get a like for that please.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  13. djsosonut

    djsosonut Well-Known Member

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    Tree of Aeons on royalroadl doesn't fit your mold. It's actually pretty interesting, since the MC ends up as a tree. So he's pretty stationary while the world moves around him, with a lot of time skips. There are people getting summoned to his world to fight demon kings. But it seems like a lock and key situation. Where one is there to take out the other.

    I'd also recommend Azarinth Healer. The MC of that story seems to be summoned to that world through chance. And even those she eventually becomes OP, she never seems too strong for her world. There are many threats out there that can crush her still. And she feels like the MC of the story, not the world. If she dies the world would move on without her.

    Those are the two I can think of that don't fit your template. Oh and if you'd buy books you can read the Chaos Seeds series by Aleron Kong. The MC does grow stronger. Does dig out his place in the world and build up a place he can call home. No real harem. No adventures guild. And the his summoned with many other across that world, but it doesn't seem like the one that did it had good intentions. They are all sources of chaos and change.
     
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  14. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    There is better material out there, but the books being translated are the most popular ones in Japan as well. Unlike with Chinese web novels, the Japanese web novels on NU are very representative of the broader market.

    This is both true and untrue. In the more abstract sense, it's true anything otaku-focused isn't particularly mainstream in Japan. But by that same token, there really isn't anything that's particularly popular in mainstream Japan. Also, Syosetsu itself is an otaku haven so what other kind of book would you expect from there?

    That's my main gripe as well. All that potential, and the writer usually has no ambition whatsoever. The genre is almost defined by a disinterest in characterization or world building. And yet, I think that this is part of the reason why isekai novels are so popular. They require no effort to read, and they cater to otaku sometimes to the extent of elevating otaku-dom into some sort of superpower. Just look at how many books have the protagonist do something entirely mundane (especially food-related things) but it gets treated as something utterly amazing.
     
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  15. MarxDarkBear

    MarxDarkBear The Great Man

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    There is nothing wrong with wishfulfillment. With working and going to college everyday when I get home I am extremely tired as well. At such times I don't feel like reading a profound story with deep storytelling or characters. Sometimes I also just like to turn my brain off and read dumb stories like that. My issue with isekai is with how every story is just a copy paste of the other. They are all the same with all the same settings, with all the same characters but with different names, with all the same monsters, with all the same cheats. Nothing is ever different. Yet it is still so damn popular. You can write a wishfulfillment story but atleast get the balls to make it a little different than the others.
     
  16. MarxDarkBear

    MarxDarkBear The Great Man

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    Like I already said. Sure write all the wish fulfillment you want. But atleast try to make it different. But the authors don't even do that. They are all the same.
     
  17. MarxDarkBear

    MarxDarkBear The Great Man

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    I really liked this comment. It actually made me think and change my perspective somewhat. Thanks for that
     
  18. MarxDarkBear

    MarxDarkBear The Great Man

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    Yeah gate started off amazing. But sadly it went downhill went it started to focus on harem and slice of life aspect.
     
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  19. Gin_Hindew

    Gin_Hindew Well-Known Member

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    Iits a mixture of regular storytelling development and current technology

    In the 19th century there were tons of gothic romantic novels with heroines melting the bad boy's heart and adventure novels about discovering new parts of the world, 20th century had the pulps with their crappy monsters and noir detectives, then the superhero comics and after Dungeons & Dragons tons of medieval fantasy popped up, whenever a genre gets a great story tons of others follow but never before we had this level of technology so we have way more people reading and writing the same genre at the same time, actually, the same happening at this moment with any other genre because the technology is the same for everyone

    How many high fantasies about defeating the Dark Lord are out there? or the young adults facing the evil government or the tons of movie remakes or the unpopular girl becoming hotter and more confident, etc, etc,

    There are always copycats of everything and isekai as an easy template so its easy to pump out new works but its also one of the first ones to enjoy the current technology boost, this is why i recommend Mushoku Tensei so much, because its the story that became the template for the others to copy but managed to make a great story with no gimmick at all, kinda like many stories after were just Mushoku Tensei With Guns, Mushoku Tensei With politics, Mushoku Tensei With A Smartphone, Mushoku Tensei With No Effort, Mushoku Tensei With A Bigger Harem

    I mean, if you read a work that uses vancian magic you may as well read the works of Jack Vance, right?

    BTW, the adventurer's guild is kind of a necessity, as adventures are the people who hunt monsters so they are kinda like fantasy infrastructure so its not a cliché of the genre but a staple of fantasy worlds, like the mage guild

    As for power fantasies i only despise them when they pretend not to be ones, because the pretentiousness gets in the way of the story with their constant and forced moral justifications, otherwise i like power fantasies as much as anybody else

    One of my favorites was Slave Harem In The Labyrinth Of The Other World because the MC never tried to justify his morals and just was putting the effort required o acquire and keep his harem, i skipped all the food grinding tho

    For a fun, violent and adventuring story read Everybody Loves Large Chests in royalroad, its a great example of a power fantasy done right, tons of boobs, tons of chests (the kind with treasure inside) fun MC with no bullshit moral justifications and clear "i like that shinny thing, lemme murder you a little so i can appreciate it better" as motivation, actually the MC may be the best murderhobo MC in existence, the story is so good as a power fantasy and even gets the luxury to have plenty of underlying plots at the same time, a must read after isekai burnout

    Currently i only follow this JP novels:

    Atelier Tanaka - the MC has clear lewd goals and only has a gold standard he must fulfill before making the ultimate harem, he is a dirty, DIRTY pervert on the inside but his manners and respect for social rules keep his actions on the legal side (yup, totally a JP guy), and as people can only see his actions they think he is a person of great morals, as a reviewer put it, he has a rotten heart of gold

    The death mage who doesnt want a fourth time - a "nobody to nightmare" story for the MC's enemies, world building, country building, plenty of other reincarnators to have them play the clichés and keep them away from the MC

    To Be A Power In The Shadows! - is also great, a clear power fantasy where the MC is too busy roleplaying as a power in the shadows to notice he actually has become one long ago

    There was no secret organization to fight the world darkness so i had to make one (in exasperation) - MC develops telekinesis in high school and is capable to push a pencil, several years later he is so OP he could wage war in humanity by himself... but nothing happens, there are no other espers and no secret organizations of any kind, the MC snaps after living a mundane life for years and decides to make his own secret organization to have some fun

    i was also reading Dungeon Defense and Instant Death but forgot about them, may pick them up later, also Overlord but the releases are sloooooooooow
     
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  20. Bakaturq

    Bakaturq Tell me, what do you see?

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