How did isekai became so big

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by MarxDarkBear, May 23, 2019.

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  1. Finalbeta

    Finalbeta Bravo Ragazzo

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    I think the feeling of mystery it produces which is pretty captivating but also eventually the feeling of greatness parallel worlds can produce once thought as a big one
     
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  2. Sturer Emil

    Sturer Emil Active Member

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    Because people want to have a sense of escapism, traveling to a world where all the rules that you know no longer exist and you are special, having great power to pursuit your desire. BUT the bad writing and copy-cat of Japanese ruined that genre. Reading isekai novel by Japanese is an insult to my brain. Chinese authors is much better at writing these fantasy and other worlds stuff, maybe Korean too but i haven't red any novels by them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  3. novaes

    novaes Well-Known Member

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    I agree with many others, it's escapism. Not that I hate it, it's fun! But it's still escapism.

    I realized eventually that isekai seems to appeal to people who aren't in control of their life. It's a way to escape from it and get a clean slate, but seeing as how these people aren't able to comprehend being in control, those common "cheat" themes come up. It's easy to just be OP and muscle through all adversity, it's also easy to let some goddess, king or waifu tell you what to do rather than make your own choice. So, at it's core, i think isekai seems to be about winning at life without ever bothering to try. Because trying is hard!

    These stories justly hardly, ever have the MC try at anything. Because that would be hard, so here's:
    • a magical power to let you win at life so you don't have to try to succeed
    • a damsel in distress to rescue so you don't have to try to meet a real girl
    • here's a system to give you quests so you don't have to try to do anything
    • a bunch of skills so you don't have to try to learn anything
    And on and on. Sure, they aren't all 100% like this, but this common theme of a lack of determinism, if you can call it that, has really started to stick out to me lately. So because our lives are hard, we escape to fantasy where we can conveniently wish away all our problems. Only isekai takes escapism so, so much further than anything else it's truly incredible.

    Think about how many isekai protagonists really seem to be in control of their life. Hardly any, right? Sure there are some, but the others are always on some sort of quest because they can't say no to random villager #254921. They never kill the bad guy (because that would require taking responsibility for your actions) or seem to be capable of dealing with people without throwing gold at them, brainwashing them, or saving them from a monster. It's just... bleh. I still like it though, hahahahaha.
     
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  4. Chrono Vlad

    Chrono Vlad 『*Pouts*』

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    1. Escapism the Japanese people has a pretty stressful life there are countless articles available in the net explaining why so i won't explain it and the several ways to escape from work related stuffs is to read manga, novel, watch anime, play games and so on.

    2. Market Demand one way to quickly gain fame, money, support, recognition, etc. etc. is to follow the trends and hypes not following the market demand is a gamble.

    Look at Isekai Smartphone it's a so-so novel series but it's doing well in Japan. It already has 17 volumes and J-Novel already translated 16 volumes already... :blobwoah:
     
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  5. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Trendsetter

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    Well you should try reading a Chinese and a Korean one.
    Chinese are all about the word count. Take Devil's Cage only 10% of the chapter is content. The other 90% is about how great the Protagonist is. You have few exceptions like Lord of Mysteries but all still fall into the trap of retelling a previous scene to see how great the Protagonist is.
    At the end of the day, Japanese web novels are from a platform similar to fictionpress. It's an amateur platform compared to their Chinese and Korean counterparts which are from commercial platforms equivalent to tapas.io or lezhin
     
  6. Sturer Emil

    Sturer Emil Active Member

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    Well most of the translated Chinese - > English on internet are crap and limited on supply not to mention the paywall lmao. I have access to much much more Chinese novels because Vietnam novels website posting their MTL chapters that is almost perfect translation and at the speed of original authors posting their new chapters on the net, and i don't have to pay a cent. I can mention some nice books :
    如意小郎君[荣小荣], 逍遥小书生[荣小荣], 国色生枭[沙漠], 权臣[沙漠] , 极品家丁[禹岩],执魔[我是墨水] , 三宫六院七十二妃 [石章鱼], 医统江山[石章鱼] etcetera...
    Well i read solely harem so i might pass on some great ones but Chinese writing skill is generally much better and more original just because they have more than 1 billions people in their country alone = more authors = more chances of writing a good novel. But well it isn't that all the Chinese novels are perfect. The amount of good novels compare to trash novels is like a drop in the ocean but it worth it when you found them
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  7. Sturer Emil

    Sturer Emil Active Member

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    I can pass on the unoriginality but i can't pass on the bad writing. I read that Smart phone isekai crap like 1 or 2 years ago and it truly stand among the worst novels i have red. It's boring, egoistic, uncreative, lazy writing and make me feel like it targeted to 12-14 yrs old brats. Because i see no way a normal adult could enjoy such novel except weebs but well weebs are sub-human anyway
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  8. Chrono Vlad

    Chrono Vlad 『*Pouts*』

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    Well back in its home country it is intended for the young readers but alas adults like it too.

    Nah weebs are just the minority main revenue of Isekai Smartphone is still in its home country... :sweating_profusely: I guess it really does help from their everyday stressful life.

    I did read somewhere if i recall correctly that Japanese fans like reading isekai novels since it touches their inner childhood or something.... :hmm:
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  9. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Trendsetter

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    It is targeted at 30 year old otakus.
    Some people want to relive their juvenile years because adulthood sucks
     
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  10. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    This writing is generally for otaku from age 15 and up. The biggest clue is how often high school is romanticized - that's not something that would appeal all that much to younger readers. So why is it so bad? The biggest fault is that these books reject concepts of creative writing like characterization or conflict or tension. You too can write like crap if you ignore things like this!
     
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  11. flannan

    flannan Well-Known Member

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    Face it - "normal" adults aren't on this website. This place is for people who are quite deep down the rabbit-hole.
    Come to the dark side. We have lolis.

    Also, I have to agree with @Wujigege - if you find a work boring, there is 50% chance you are just too young and energetic to appreciate it. For example, I enjoyed Isekai Smartphone. It isn't getting any prize for originality any time soon, but it's quite solid.
    The author overdid it with the harem, though - at some point harem size exceeded his ability to give the girls screentime and distinct personality. Still better than what I hear about Chinese works.

    Nah, just because the book doesn't use shounen battle anime formula doesn't mean they don't have conflict or tension.
    For a memorable example, Maoyuu Maou Yuusha had a team-up of Hero (who is the strongest) and Demon Lord (who is the smartest and rules over the most people), but there was still no guarantee their plans would work. (by the way, it's still not fully translated, so I still don't know if their plans would work, but the plot was quite tense the last time I read it)
    What makes so-called "overpowered" protagonists work is problems of their caliber. And many of them eventually get there.

    On the other hand, slice-of-life is a real genre that is devoid of conflict and tension. For people who have enough conflict and tension in their lives, that's just what doctor ordered.

    The third option is to raise stakes. Sure, Kirito could fight out of that room full of monsters, but his whole guild died, and that's a failure. In the West, superhero stories often have tension like this.
     
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  12. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    It's not just conflict or tension. It's also missing basic characterization, not knowing how to write dialogue, not understanding what world building is or why it's important, not doing anything in terms of themes, and often not even doing the basic work of establishing scenes. It's not just bad writing; it's often abysmal writing where the writer doesn't even care about improving his craft.

    Also, I'd say that Maoyu isn't a particularly good book but at least it makes an effort at quality. That's still a lot more than what some of these other web novels try to do, but it came out a long time ago and the newer books have moved in a different direction. Sword Art Online is another book that's bad, but more because the writer doesn't really know what a good book is supposed to look like. It's endemic of the problems plaguing these Japanese otaku writers, and all the trends here are negative.
     
  13. flannan

    flannan Well-Known Member

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    @ToastedRossi - excuse me if I assume you're the one who doesn't actually know what a good book should be like. By all signs, you are bound by dogma that you were told in school, and would have trouble writing modern popular books.
    Why do I say it? Because SAO is so popular, it should be used as a reference point of good writing.
    Remember - if theories don't agree with experimental results, it's usually because theories are wrong. That's how we do it in physics, and literature critics should take our example.

    As a side note, you cannot judge the author's actual language skills when you're reading a translation.
     
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  14. Sturer Emil

    Sturer Emil Active Member

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    SAO is meh, you can say it is the best treatment for people who have insomnia, read for 5 mins and you sleep like a log. It's popular just because of weebs. The novel gives you nothing beside escapism and fan service romcom [but even then the romance is still suck ass], if anything only the part when they first stuck in the vr game readable, the rest can be thrown to the trash can. It weird how time have changed, back then we have Sans Famille by Hector Malot, Adventure of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain,
    Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson or 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne. Now we get "instant noodle" novels with barely any efforts in writing , promote egotism and hedonism, selling sex in the form of R18 novels . Anything is commercial, writting just for the sake of getting money or "accidently" become popular.
     
  15. Sturer Emil

    Sturer Emil Active Member

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    Face it, the most important part of a novel is the content. The use of words is like a decoration in novel , it isn't like in poetry where it's the main part. If a book is shit you could have the most clever use of word but people still say it shit. Translated or not the content is the matter and the person you quoted not mention about the author language skill. And since you said SAO is good, explain why and how it's good !
     
  16. Sturer Emil

    Sturer Emil Active Member

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    Ah i must be too young, younger than some horny teenagers to not enjoy such novels
     
  17. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Trendsetter

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    I have the agree. The famous Roger Ebert rated Titanic as a dud and that it would fail at the box office. It made $1 billion and was the highest grossing movie ever for over a decade.
    Roger Ebert recanted his review. Movie studios have stopped the practice of giving critics a pre-screening of their movies since a negative review can hurt a movie's chances at the box office not matter how good it actually is.
    At the end of the day, no matter how famous a critic is, reviews are subjective. Movie goers/ Consumers are not literature students. As long as the story gives the entertainment that the target audience craves then it is a good story.
    The science can be messed up, the plot totally improbable, it might even defy common sense but as long as it succeeds at entertaining then it is a successful story.
    I have told many here a number of times, I won't read most of the novels on my website even if I am paid to. It is not a slight on the novels, I am just not the target audience. I have made my peace with that.
    Besides, it is very easy to become elitist and to look down on others for their tastes but sometimes after a bad day, a simple, silly book is what the doctor ordered.
    Cheers!
    [​IMG]

    Hahha your first mistake, is to think that the novels are targeted at teenagers.
    Unless you think this anime themed adult cafes are for kids


    Try the 7 minute mark, you won't regret it lol.
     
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  18. flannan

    flannan Well-Known Member

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    I have actually read Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain and Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson. There is nothing special about them.
    Nobody lives like Tom Sawyer anymore. You can't have adventures like that unless you play a game or fall into a fantasy world. A story like Nonbiri VRMMO-ki is more representative of a modern life. Adventures of Tom Sawyer are only of interest to historians now.
    Treasure Island is your run-of-the-mill adventure novel. It's about the same as this season's Isekai Cheat Magician, but with pirates.

    Indeed, the content is most important. And that's what the popular novels deliver.
    You mentioned 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne, a well-known sci-fi work of old. The author did not try too hard to be realistic (and now we know he surely wasn't), but that didn't get in the way of exploration of the invention's potential and adventures.
    What's the modern analog, you'll ask? Well, it's Sword Art Online. No more realistic, but just as interesting and popular. It also includes exploration of invention's potential and adventures.
    Serious sci-fi is rare these days, with modern rampart anti-intellectualism, but SAO shines brightly against that background.
     
  19. Sturer Emil

    Sturer Emil Active Member

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    Well i can agree with you about reviews are subjective and things have it target audience :) If everyone agreed on that, everytime you see someone have a pov that you don't like you just need to silently hate them and ignore, eventually no1 ever arguing again. That doesn't sound fun :v
     
  20. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Trendsetter

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    Did I silently hate and ignore you?
    Besides, hating takes too much effort and is a waste of my time that is why I ignore people. I ignore people for three reasons

    1. They have an agenda. It is a long story, you should look it up. I wont bother to explain. It has nothing to do with having an argument
    2. I did not come to this forum to read about octopus sex, it is disgusting. I have ignored someone for that
    3. I ignored people because their profile pic is weird and creepy.
    Ignoring someone because of hate is childish and a waste of time. I do have stalkers who respond to all my threads and posts though. It would be stupid to feed such trolls.
    A word of advice, when someone tells you something negative about someone, you should first figure out if they have ulterior motives.
    You underestimate the number of entitled brats on here.
    Over and out!
    [​IMG]