Question How would you build a xianxia-based VRMMORPG?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by kkgoh, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. kkgoh

    kkgoh Well-Known Member

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    Was reviewing "Worlds' Apocalypse Online" when I realized this issue. Haven't read far (chapter 110+), but didn't seem like author was able to develop a robust system for xianxia.

    I complain about it, but I'm realizing it's also pretty hard to quantify xianxia RPG levels/skills since it's all purely power up (my cultivation is stronger than yours aka Dragonball, no use of tactics/environmental effects) ... Wuxia is pretty easy, already exists in so many CN novels as normal RPG.

    "Rebirth of the Thief" came closest but it was still just another western-style RPG.
    I heard "Reincarnation of the Strongest Sword God" tried xianxia VRMMORPG but the system development was a dismal failure.
    Not sure if there are other CN novels that tried.

    So how would you build a xianxia VRMMORPG that's balanced/believable? The western-style RPG was robustly developed over decades -- from table top to PC games, Dungeons & Dragons, Forgotten Realms, etc etc.
    Would you still have basic stats (STR, DEX, AGI, INT, etc)? Weapons/equipment can be easily graded. Not sure what you'd do about the ridiculous OP skills (think ISSTH's seven-step skill where MC crushes baddies which each step). Classify as a magic attack? Or can there be a more unique system tailored just for xianxia?

    A robust system would have to strictly adhere to levels/stats though. You can't just leap across levels like most nonsensical novels (i.e. a level 1 killing a level 10 through use of god-like powers). I'd buy it if traps/environmental effects were used.

    On a side note, if you've read most AD&D / Forgotten Realms / Wizards of the Coast novels, you'll realize the authors very carefully stratified skills without explicitly mentioning numbers (i.e. MC doesn't discover a +1 sword, instead he discovers a sword that was enhanced with magic or smithed in a unique way). Authors tried very hard to maintain the illusion of a fantasy-reality without introducing game-like elements. It's funny that the widespread acceptance of VRMMORPG broke down the entire genre =)
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  2. elengee

    elengee Daoist Ninefaps

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    I'd add Arrogant Young Master as a class to play, requires micro payments in a store.
     
  3. otaku31

    otaku31 Well-Known Member

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    Hv users log in and just meditate in seclusion. Time spent in meditation= exp.
     
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  4. kkgoh

    kkgoh Well-Known Member

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    Genius!
     
  5. Kalto

    Kalto [ Somewhat meticulous ]

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    You will make your gamers bored :hmm:
     
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  6. elengee

    elengee Daoist Ninefaps

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    Also, generally cultivation has 3 main streams, spirit, body and Qi. You could make them skill-trees like in WoW. End up as a psychic, warrior or mage. Give them the freedom to do whatever. Choices affecting your skill choices. Devil/demon beast/orthodox/unorthodox etc.
    i.e. farm exp for devil skills by killing innocents and refining them through sub-classes / crafting ones.
    like gathering: herbs or spirit stones or souls, depending on starting point.
     
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  7. Freezy

    Freezy Well-Known Member

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    Why wouldn't you just let seclusion be time spent logged off and just throw in some random dice roll events like enlightenment or cultivation deviation?
     
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  8. gheist1234

    gheist1234 |Path Finder| 『WW Vet.』|Beardy|

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    I would mix xianxia with a bit of everyone else is a returnee (leveling and stuff) the best part would be the skill evolution and class change quest based on the achievements to simulate a strong tribulation that only comes to those strong enough.
     
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  9. elengee

    elengee Daoist Ninefaps

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    Seclusion, gain exp bonus while playing next. Digesting your gains.
     
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  10. kkgoh

    kkgoh Well-Known Member

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    Good point about skill-trees. Don't really play MMORPGs all that much, think the last one was Guild Wars 2 when I was a lot younger. I was still with the old school table tops =)

    Mulling over the classes ... don't think psychic/warrior/mage fits well, too western-style. Maybe blend wuxia and xianxia?
    - Spiritualist (uses "spirit" powers like you mentioned)
    - Warrior/Fighter (some kinda pugilist wuxia type powers, follows the "body" you mentioned)
    - Qi ... no idea. I know The King's Avatar had a Qi Master class, basically a ranged type fighter. Thought that was pretty clever by the author.

    Wouldn't race choices be pretty varied too?
    - Humans
    - Demons/Beast Race (all the various animals that somehow converted)
    - Devils (assuming there's one category just for them)
    - Spirits/Ghosts
     
  11. kkgoh

    kkgoh Well-Known Member

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    Good point about tribulations, maybe use that as a rank divider (i.e. class promotion exam .. similar to RPG/JRPG).
    But can't be too unbalanced though (e.g. Legendary Moonlight Sculptor).
    Just because you aren't human, sleep only 2 hrs a day and have willpower of the heavens doesn't = OP-game character.
     
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  12. Diametric

    Diametric Waifu Connoisseur

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    Lots of time-gates that you can bypass with premium currency, i.e. secluded cultivation (temp ban) for a day, week, month, etc. or cough up £20 for soul stones that give you a day, week, month, etc. worth of cultivation.

    Or else just stay at whatever level you are at with little to no progress.
     
  13. LowerTierDragon

    LowerTierDragon Active Member

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    Yeah, you'd want to nail down the extent of the system. Possibly every 10 levels marks a new tier (Qi Condensation, Foundation Building, Core Formation, Nascent Soul, <insert whatever the bridge from NS to immortal you have in your universe is here because personalizing this is obligatory for any xianxia setting>). Additionally, you'd probably initially cap it at that last rank and save "Immortal" and after for an expansion down the road (doing the Er Gen "step" model gives us a couple expansions worth of content segregation, too; of course Immortal Mortal is what you end up with when it goes on indefinitely like EverQuest or WoW). Each up-tier would involve a rank-up questline ("tribulation") and would then unlock new zones.

    "Secluded meditation" would just be rested XP. No need to reinvent that wheel, it works fine as it is. It's a standard trope that meditation is nothing without experience, after all (if you want to really stick to setting, the rested XP could appear to modify your level as others see it, too, but you don't get the perks until you actually do stuff).

    Skills and abilities would be split up into three types: inherents, specialization, and legacies. Inherents are the stuff that everybody at a given rank has regardless of class (e.g. Foundation experts usually have flight while Nascent Soul dudes generally get some sort of medium-range teleportation). Specializations are points you would invest every level towards improving specific abilities/damage types. Want to be a fire-breathing speedster? Put your points in the ability trees for those things. Legacies would be a slot-in system you acquire through "ancient inheritance" dungeons, the usual secret realms left behind by ancestor-types; collect all of them that you can and slot them in and out as the situation requires, just as xianxia authors totally forget some abilities and spam others! The Legacies could also apply things like "level modifiers", passive boosts to your stats/effective level to model the ability to jump levels a xianxia MC has.

    Oh, and because this is xianxia, grouping would need double-cross/backstab mechanics. Ninja looting? Why not betray and kill your entire party while you're at it, because this is xianxia, damnit.

    The world(s) would need some procedural generation. The scale of xianxia worlds is just too big to handcraft the landscape and occupants. Luckily, since almost everybody's a self-absorbed jerk that belongs to a magical gang, you don't have to work too hard on NPC diversity in the scripting, you just specify different sect sizes, plop in a little variety by having a hilarious fattybro in the mix of each one, assign it a specialization (pills, formations, explicitly evil because we have ghosts and stuff ooooh, et al.), and bam, it's just like the real thing.
     
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  14. HamsterOverlord-sama

    HamsterOverlord-sama outer god, eldich abomination of fluffy lovelyness

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    Each cultivation stage comes as a class-like thingy, techniques are used as skills, treasures are graded. Smth like:
    Name: Jonh Doe
    Stage: Golden Core lvl 8 (late stage, 2 lvl to peak stage, required exp(spirit qi till next lvl: 123987/1000000)
    Class: Talisman Refiner (ordinary grade)
    ---
    (stats are measured with gcu: golden core unit (golden core grade spirit qi/(1000*ordinary action not enhanced through techniques))
    STR: 456
    DEX: 761
    INT: 646
    LUC: 109
    CON: 400
    AGI: 156
    ---
    head: phoenix hearpin (+100 INT, -100 STR)
    torso: Fen Jou Sect's standard darma clothing (+200 CON)
    legs: heavenly crow feather pants (+ 100 AGI)
    boots: standard qi boots (never worn down, fit perfectly)
    ---
    Skills:
    Innate + unique (0 known skills)
    Qi refiner stage grade (10 known skills)
    Foundation stage grade (32 known skills)
    Golden core stage grade (120 known skills)
    Further stages yet to be unlocked
    ---
    Titles:
    Demon
    Talisman master
    Killer of the same stage
     
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  15. kkgoh

    kkgoh Well-Known Member

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    Haha you guys come up with some really clever ideas.
    Forgot about Formation Masters, that'll be a good class to add (basically the buffing warrior/mage like The King's Avatar Ghostblades). Maybe add a Pill Master / Alchemist as the standard "healer" for a party? Beast Tamers for the players who like pets?
    Totally pulling out stuff from "Library of Heaven's Path" here. Didn't think it was good, but the ideas were novel.

    The meditation phase could be a forced log-off. Requirement by Chinese authorities not to game too much. Think that joke was played in "Rebirth of the Thief".
    Gotta think about the Legacies idea a bit. The dungeon being some ancient inheritance dwelling/cave makes sense.
    The inclusion of all the xianxia tropes would be a hilarious in-game easter egg (fattybros, arrogant young masters, etc). Bonus EXP for face-smacking.

    Can someone just throw all this info at some Chinese authors and have them write a novel with decent world building for once?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  16. HamsterOverlord-sama

    HamsterOverlord-sama outer god, eldich abomination of fluffy lovelyness

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    Heavenly tribulations can be like minigames too, like you advance class (stage) and the system throws you into a minigames where you have to press buttons at the right time else you fail. Like a shooter or smth. Can buy or craft a tribulation formation, like upgrading your gear for the class up minigames. I would make it like pvz, waves of tribulations, you put down formations where you need em and the tribulation waves try to reach you.
     
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  17. Agero

    Agero Active Member

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    VRMMORPG setup

    Alliance: Cultivators , Demon Cultivators, Rogue Cultivators

    Races: Different races have different base stats and stat growth

    Jobs: Everyone are cultivators, difference will be in ranks Qi condensation lvl 1-50, job upgrade every 50 levels to Foundation building, gold core, nascent soul etc.

    Classes: Will depend on skill tree path. Every player on the same alliance will have the same skill tree. Depending on where you allocate points in the skill tree you can end up on Spirit cultivator path, body cultivator or qi cultivator. You can get additional skills by completing unique quests.
     
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  18. kkgoh

    kkgoh Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense, tribulations have typically been depicted as PvZ. If you aren't a formation master, that'll make the inclusion of a party even more important. Think there were always scenes of people helping out with tribulations.

    I'm considering a larger world context (like Legendary Moonlight Sculptor) where there'll be multiple professions, not all purely melee, such as production classes (blacksmith, pill forger, etc). Maybe that weird celestial farmer for food production ... read that in some CN novel somewhere. I'm realizing it was probably based on HappyFarm (the predecessor to Farmville). Worst case it'll follow AD&D style, where you can have a primary class and subclass/occupation (e.g. a fighter + farmer combo). Guess that follows @Agero 's idea of jobs.
     
  19. kkgoh

    kkgoh Well-Known Member

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    Oh yea we totally gotta have "Demon/Rogue" cultivators, hahaha.
    The standard trope was for evil sects to commit nonsensical perversion (rape/absorbing the lifeforce of innocent victims/etc). No idea if/how that'll get implemented.
     
  20. yamibae

    yamibae Well-Known Member

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    Since it’s a vrmmorpg then I think the ideal way to progress is through the development of unique skills for each player based on any random number of quests or monster spawns as well as from clear rewards. As for levelling/cultivation it would be done the same as normal games with killing monster and doing quests for exp however there would be exp gains even from doing nothing but remaining in game as well albeit small amounts.


    Sect creation can be done as well since they’re essentially the same concept as guilds.


    Legendary Moonlight Sculptor comes close to the sort of vr world I can see myself enjoying since it satisfies most of the above.