Spoiler I Swear I Won’t Bother You Again!

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by Shizun, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. darkcrystal

    darkcrystal Well-Known Member

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    Well I judge the characters from how much information i gain from reading manga and i really don't like prince or marrysue but importantly that shitty dad no matter how much u pester someone their is a limit to irritate someone in fact when the person themselves says they want to spend time with some one else but still pestering on them by using one's dad plus let me clear u one good thing yes fl done a good job to try to kill her fine good thing but poor at that right time marrysue get saved by someone as they know it is going to happen and waiting for that time it would be much better if she had killed marrysue and got punishment then reincarnated it will be much better at least it will be a good punishment for bastard dad and bitch concubine and yes about marry sue's arc that u r talking if anyone day if she really can be less nuisance and more understanding for fl like actual family then automatically she will be accepted by readers ,for that prince I don't care till that time keep enjoying ur same boring argument for fl murdering attempt or blah blah. And one more thing in this section majority don't like marrysue's family and want to get rid of them from this story. And next time if u don't like my opinion stop bothering from it most importantly I m not here to cover up fl's crime to attempt murder but simply here to show my dislike towards bastard dad and his 2nd family because how they stay neglecting a whole person in their family even in 2nd life that is something everyone hating even no matter whatsoever that dad feels about fl is only belittling her infront of anyone and not to acknowledge her contribution though his marrysue highly intelligent but still fl help her but again no support from marrysue against her dear dad.
     
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  2. darkcrystal

    darkcrystal Well-Known Member

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    Exactly I want to say samething but some one getting on my nerve with that same argument that fl try to murder that bitchy sister but that sister helped her from that punishment blah blah it's ok it's one's own preference to support which ever character they like but same argument without understanding other people's side POV .really the hate I feel towards that sister not because she is simply a favourable daughter but how ignorant fool and annoying she is. One side acting self righteous other side don't understand her father's wrong doing same goes with that useless masochist prince.
     
  3. ATrueStory

    ATrueStory Villainesses, Historical Shit, Noble Circuses

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    This is like having a deja vu

    There is nothing wrong with being kind. In fact, it's a desirable trait for any character.
    For some readers, being kind is enough as a character and 'hating' a kind character is a neurotic idea.
    For me, I just hate the passiveness of characters who are written like this. Sure, she's kind. anything else?
    I like characters who DO something. I don't advocate them to be the MC's defenders or anything. I just want them to acknowledge that something is wrong and they will do something about it. And if that character is doing nothing, don't expect me to care. And if they claim something, please back that up with your actions.
    Stories, for me, are about doing actions. If you're not doing anything, I'll watch my ceilings and walls inside my house. or paint drying up. I don't care if you're immoral or a saint, the purpose of a character to drive the story, challenge others and more or less, entertain me. Else, you're just a stock and flat character who gets the limelight that should have been used for others to get the story going.
     
  4. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    Thats alot of buzzwords you clearly dont know the meaning of...mary jane isnt a mary sue because she has clear flaws.

    A mary sue isn't another name for a character you dislike

    Also stop assuming I like the prince or dad.

    And you say you're not her to cover FLs past crime but you are clearly doing that in youre other posts. The rest I cant understand what you're saying becusse it's a wall of text and useless buzzwords your using incorrectly.

    Stop contradicting yourself and projecting stuff I didn't even mention onto me to make a stawman argument

    And of someone for annoying them? Lol. That's middle school thinkin. I think you missed the while point of this novel and mistook it's as a "pull them out by the roots" typenof novel judging by you're rants

    You're not gonna find face slapping or gorey revenge here

    And please if you're gonna reply to me do It in a way i can understand, or else dont bother.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  5. KathyClysm

    KathyClysm Well-Known Member

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    Not to insert myself into a discussion here, but thinking she could just avoid them when they live in the same house and she is "asked" (forced) to play happy family with them and eat with them does not really work. As for her mother's family, that is an interesting thought, but considering the time period and setting, I assume that is also not an option because once a woman marries into a man's family, in a lot of cultures, she is not considered part of her old family anymore. As for avoiding the prince and her sister, especially the prince, we need to consider social status. Dismissive behaviour like that often has rather harsh reprecussions. She could be accused of being rude to royalty, or her father could hear of her "unkind" treatment of her sister and punish her harshly. Our FL isn't stupid, she probably thought of all of this in the year she spent in prison, and came to the conclusion that keeping her head down, not causing any trouble and eventually just getting the f*** out of there is the safest course of action.

    Ignoring the past would mean ignoring her entire character development. In her first life, she did as you suggested, she acted on her emotions, she tried to get her revenge, and what did it get her? A year in solitary confinement and most likely an execution ending. And she has relfected on that, she as come to the realisation that that is not a good path to walk down, which is why she figured going to the monastery is the easiest and fastest way out. If she were to take action like last time, chances are it would turn out similarily to the first timeline. But I agree with you, I dislike her sister precisely because she makes no effort to understand Violet and she seems to ignore the difference in treatment of the two sisters. I don't think anyone is arguing that that is not a huuuuge character flaw of hers. However, in a good story, nothing is black-and-white. Mary Jun is so extremely naive and in her little fantasy world, that other people get actively hurt because of it. But Violet is not perfect either, and neither is Yulian or anyone else in the story - which is what makes the story so great.
    I agree on the adults, once you reach a certain age, you ought to be aware of your actions and the effect it can have on other people. For the father, I sort of see why he left given that Violet's mother was clearly mentally ill and obsessed with him, and I also understand (if not agree) why he came back - after all, it is HIS house (Violet's mother was the one marrying into that house, it is his family home) - but the fact remains that he is taking his hatered of the mother out on the daughter, hence why he is an antagonist in this story.
    As for Mary Jun's genius, I believe there is a difference between being smart (as in having common sense and understanding people) and being intelligent. She clearly is intelligent, seeing as how she has perfect grades in school and learns new things like the violin very quickly, but she is most definitely not smart. She does not notice any of the emotions other characters are feeling. Not Violet's anxiety and sadness, not Yulan's hatred towards her, or the contempt and dislike of other nobles at the school for her as a commoner. So yes, she is insensitive, and naive, and an airhead, and completely and utterly ignorant. Is that an excuse for her behaviour? Absolutely no. I think what other people here in the discussion are trying to explain is that the story is not over, so for all we know, there could come a time when she finally realises, and then maybe even helps Violet to get out of the house. Or we could all find out that she has been faking it and in truth wants to hurt Violet all along. We simply do not know yet, all we can do is assume.
    And Violet WAS resentful. She felt all of the emotions you are feeling - which is why the first timeline happend. It makes absolute sense, the difference is simply that she tried all of that, she failed miserably, and it ended her life (so to speak). So this time she is simply trying a different strategy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  6. KathyClysm

    KathyClysm Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling that might happen to a lot of people who are new to the genre. After all, isekai stories tend to follow a certain pattern: It is either a "Do-over? Great, let me GTFO or completely change my behaviour to avoid the flags" or "Do-over? Well this time I know all your dirty tricks and I'll drag you down for good if it's the last thing I do". Usually, with a backstory this tragic and and FL who is not from another world, we are trained to expect the later, when in this case, it is the former.
    It also does not help that the manga and novel are so extremely different in tone. The manga makes it seem like this is a rather sweet, happy-ish story, while the novel is an excruciating tragedy full of angst and anxiety. At this point, I personally consider them two completely seperate stories, because while the basic plot is similar, that is just about it.
     
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  7. sjmcc13

    sjmcc13 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any idea how many users on his site use terms with no understanding of their meaning, or context... or worse get defensive that their incorrect usage is right because that is what they think the term means.
     
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  8. WinnieS

    WinnieS Well-Known Member

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    If I’m not mistaken, it was him who was married into the mother’s household. That’s why the mother was able to “force” him into marrying her, she’s rich and powerful. That’s why I called him shameless. Not only he returned for the status and money, but brought his mistress and illegitimate daughter to enjoy what his abandoned wife has left. The nerve to brought in the woman he cheated with and the results of his affairs into the house of his wife and then has the audacity to use his “father” position to shoved them into the abandoned daughter’s life, forcing her to accept them otherwise she be dammed. He wants his cake and eat it too while his daughter was emotionally and physically abused. He’s shameless, his mistress is shameless and so is his illegitimate daughter. I refuse to believe a stupidly naive character. People can only be naive or oblivious to a certain point. A lifelong oblivious person is a stupid person who can’t use his/her brain to process his/her surroundings. Given that it seems she/stepsister has the capability to use her brain like a genius, I don’t think the learning/processing thing should be a problem. She’s/stepsister not blind nor is she deaf. She can see, she can hear how FL is being treated in her own house by her own father. As a person who was raised with so much love and sheltered by that particular man, doesn’t it bother her that someone, especially a family member, is being treated like that in front of her? It’s rather wired that she said and did nothing, considering how much she “loves” her new stepsister and how good she’s supposed to be. As she grew older, she should’ve understood where things stand in her family dynamic, that it was her father who’s the cheater, her mother the mistress and FL was abandoned by her own “loving” father. What a pretentious self righteous bast*rd! Who raised another daughter lovingly while threw the other in the pit of misery for his own convenience. As it seem like FL abusive life with her mother is not a secret either, so what makes her think that flaunting the love of the father FL never have nor the love of a mother that never exist in front of FL is not gonna ticked her/FL off? I suppose the cheating duo have given her/stepsister everything that is good except the teaching of being considerate.
     
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  9. ATrueStory

    ATrueStory Villainesses, Historical Shit, Noble Circuses

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    If you're a reader and someone who also writes, it's a complete minefield. For some readers who are so emotionally invested, criticism about that character gets you an automatic accusation of 'you just hatin' Like you're not allowed to put a somewhat objective view or even consider the context of the story.

    For those interested, here's a link to a Mary Sue characterization: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CommonMarySueTraits
    There are many types of Mary Sues and this might be applicable here
    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PuritySue
    Main trope: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

    I think I read that too here re: it's the former duchess' estate and if that is true, Violette should be duchess by right.

    And if that is true, it's gonna be another can of worms. I think we have an idea of what happens when strained relationships and a tonload of money do to people involved.

    re: the duke. Mind joining me to build a pyre?

    Edit: added more links
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  10. KathyClysm

    KathyClysm Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure about who's house it is, but if you are right, then it also does not surprise me. The father is the one character I wholeheartedly find irredeamable. There is pretty much nothing he could say or do that would make me think of him as not a waste of space and oxygen.
    Someone has said before that they are keeping Violet around because she is the only legitimate heir (but I don't remember if that was a spoiler or speculation), which would fit with his character then.

    Again, I am not disagreeing with you on the sister either, I really, REALLY dislike her, and characters like her in general, but to me, she is not so horrible just yet that I cannot imagine a scenario where she could turn out to be an ally in the end. Probably because her most defining character trait so far is that she doesn't do anything. Nothing good, nothing overly bad. She just smiles and laughs like a moron. However, we have not been given an indication yet in either the novel or the manga, whether those smiles are genuine and she's just that stupid (which is something that can be changed) or if she is faking it and being cunning (in which case, I'll be the first with a shotgun to her face). We also know nothing about her background yet. We assume that she was raised lovingly, because she gives us the impression that in her world, everything is all sunshine and rainbows, but who knows, with how dark this author goes in people's backstories, she could have been abused as well and this is her coping mechanism. This is why, although I do hate her right now, I want to wait to pass final judgement on her until we get more information, more action from her, anything.
     
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  11. WinnieS

    WinnieS Well-Known Member

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    I’m pretty sure he married into. That’s what amplified my dislike to him.
     
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  12. darkcrystal

    darkcrystal Well-Known Member

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    I m not ignoring fl's past but based on her thought how she want to live in her present life i have commented she herself stated she don't want anyone's attention then again before leaving she lecturing that sister about family things and helping prince to sewing his torn Cape in competition this things are not necessary for her to do and no one can pin point it on her why she didn't help them when in 1st place this are not her given responsibilities (no one know if she passing by at that time when little bitch fighting or she knows about sewing)nor I m saying to disrespect prince but just avoid him in available situations that sometimes she is doing in present of yulian because more she trying to help them the more they're bothering her with their unnecessary interests she want to live her life this time properly that she can't because of her own mistakes and some because of her bad situations but in present time how they both prince and step sis trying to invade in her space irritate me especially that butler now she changed every much from beginning they want to force for queen's candidate just because she stopped becoming fan girling towards prince so prince now missing her. Hence second life given to her as a gift with her past memories for changing herself and her life which she did actually to not act like before or expect anything even love from anyone following her past mistakes she improved already to the point where she is more clear to see people's around her who values her in return she's trying her best to do value them. But some people constantly bringing her past and trying to push her back to that time when she tried to kill that marrysue. I didn't rant on that marrysue or prince for past lifetime actions but because of fl's present timeline how they're bothering continuously if marrysue don't but prince have enough sense to understand how much fl trying to avoid him but he is like follow her anywhere she is. Well I m following manga so on that I put my opinions nd I genuinely hate her father and wish he dies like a shitty hell. I have seen many step siblings drama but if step sibling is really worthy then I don't mind to support them if they're someone who act as main connection between everyone understand their step siblings try to convince both step siblings and parents to understand each other and be together as happy they can but sorry marrysue is not my cup of tea because she is so dumb to understand people's feelings around her it's like even her parents fight so badly upto the point of divorce she will think her parents are making love.
    well thanks to understand some of my points and I think u misunderstand that comment of mine I didn't mean to let go of her past infact past is the biggest lesson from which we learn but the comments I have given on the basis of fl present thought about her present life and what I have seen in manga even rants on that sis nd prince also based on present not on the basis of past but yes my hate towards that dad for both the lifetime never change and fl herself to ask her aunt about her becoming nun so I believe she maintains a good relationship with them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  13. darkcrystal

    darkcrystal Well-Known Member

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    Now I understand know matter how much u try to clear your opinions to someone block headed will remain blocked headed because they don't understand what they themselves want to express for what they're r fighting for ,but they will oppose people's opinion without understanding them and yes I m saying again that step sis is simply a marrysue for how unrealistic she lacking flaws in herself to be good in anything in novel world and for her dad she is damn flawless but for we readers we don't even know if it is her act or seriously so stupid but we readers still consider it as her flaw (yes people sometimes used marrysue in ironic way ) to act so righteous to understand anything yet so dumb to understand feelings around her seriously what is the meaning for her to educated in high Society if she don't know how her existing society work even low nobles or commoners people understand more than her about how high Society work and how step siblings wars happening in royal family how it feels when one get mistreated by the family (don't say me she don't even understand feelings like pity)this things normal for people to know who study in same school as prince and when same thing happening in her family where is her self righteous act gone now she can informed her father that fl didn't spend her time with her but she still acted nothing happened when she mistreated if in the past she try act as person who improved father daughter relationship may be fl will never act as that anymore towards her like that n may be came to like her and this is too unbelievable for one to believe if she is dumb or simply acting. And yes people will leave their opinions if you don't understand kindly let it go don't force it on your brain and start arguing so stupidly because how I understand you don't like any character including fl after all how u always used that same thing in argument how she try to killed ur marrysue looks like u only like marrysue in this story my sorry for you but unfortunately she is not fl in this novel, because you started it I m expecting to end it over here. Bye bye
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  14. emersy

    emersy Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, the biggest victim in this story is Vio, and the people at fault is her parents. This wouldnt happened if werent for their actions.

    first the mother
    - its not bad to love someone but its bad to force that someone to ourself. She is crazy enough to force the father to marry her. And when he left the one she pour her unstable love into is her daughter because they look alike.
    Father
    - HES AN INCOMPETENT POOR HEADED DUMBASS. why would he marry Vio's mom if he cant love her, why would he procreate with her? (I orginally used f##ck lol but it doesnt sound right lol) If I were him I would do what he did in the middle of his relationship, elope with his mistress. Thats the smartest way to do, especially in that era where pictures are not common and he is not important enough to have any painting for himself.(correct me if im wrong i think he is a commoner) Seriously he should just elope with his lover at that time and start a new life and Vio wouldnt been born and she wont be abuse by her mother.And also im confused how did the people of their house accept him if he werent managing the entire dukedom at the time he eloped. He shouldnt have that power to control the entirety of the house and enter his bastard and mistress since he just marry into it. If I were Vio's maternal family I wouldnt permit it.(How dare he had a face to critique Vio for being 'unreasonable' and accuse her of tarnishing their name, if the name is not actually his.) I think the one who should temporary holding the house is a relative of Vio. He has too thick of a skin to come back and bring THAT family of his really its making my blood boil.(I wish some relative of Vio visit her and say to his face why is he in THEIR FAMILY'S HOUSEHOLD)

    Stepmother
    - I think shes so lucky that Vio's mother is not crazy enough to kill her. Imagine it, if her mother were to plot to kill her, she wouldnt have an audacity to cheat with Vio's father. Its just my speculation, i think shes the forcing her daughter to form a relationship with her sister or other powerful figures (albeit her knowledge or not) or shes the reason why the husband married Vio's mother, because maybe she is an ambitiuos commoner who wants to have power and very cunning also. ( i wont believe Maryjun got her intelligence from his father because we all know how stupid and dunce the father is). The reason why she push her to do it is 1) shes just a nobody, no individual power in aristocracy ( she only have a slight power through her husband and her husband through the family he married into) 2) she dont have as much power in the Ladies circle of nobility. Most Ladies value elegance and elegance is tied with blood and other "aristocraty" things which we all know Vio embodies (Many ladies prefer her and the reason why they bullies Maryjun aside from amusement they want to gain her attention). In conclusion she wants to have a stable place in nobility with or without Vio's power.

    Maryjun
    - I cant understand her honestly. Shes to blurry, how can someone as talented and intelligent as her be so oblivious. If I were her father before entering her to the advance ( is said it advance because their is a "middle school" section of the academy) academy. We all know that the sole purpose of academies for nobelitues was not to learn but to getconnection many states it as a mini version of kingdom politics with its cliques and what not. To fix Maryjun or open her eyes in nobility is not Vio's responsibility. I think what she needs is an etiquette teacher and learn the basics of it like what children of nobility had. (Which all commoner turn nobility characters should do). I think shes just a pushover to her parents.

    Prince Claudia
    - honestly I dont want to talk to him right now. Hes like the refined version of chinese ML CEOs, Husbands/ex, etc that sulks when the FL dont give them attention. I think hes just threatened with his brother Yuran as a crown prince since, I dont if its implied, Yurans is much better candidate than him for the throne. He just need someone with power to secure his position for the crown i.e. Vio (a very likely queen candidate as stated by his attendant/comfidant with her favourable position in society (many admire her) and her bloodline (from a duke family)) at the first life, i speculate that the reason he chose Maryjun is because she is favoured by the current head and because of Vio's attitude her standing worsen in the public and its easier for her to 'get rid of'. But now in the 2nd life Vio's standing is still better, shes intelligent and wise (wise is different from smart (which her sister has)) but the problem is she is shown to be falling on Yulan's faction which threaten his crown prince status. Think about it, normally children between the king and the mistress would only be below to the real child and can only have a certain amount of standing (they can only be name 2nd prince and still stays in a diff palace.p but why is Yulan adopted into another house with a certain amount of power, 2nd only to the king, a prime minister house. This indicates that he is an important asset to the kingdom and the reason why Claudia become the heir is he is firstborn and is the legitimate son. But it is still not strong enough to secure the position. I have a theory that Yulan's mother is not a simple mistress.

    Yulan
    - im not really into him from the very start. Reason is why did he stop associating with Vio during and before the story? And I dont like his character he is too weak and a coward. Vio wont yearn for Claudia if he just confess to her. We know that what Vio wants the most is affection from other people. Which maybe wont happened if he didnt stop associating with her during their middle school days. I think he also regrets this and time travels thats the reason why the number of their interaction increases. And also he is a huge contender for the crown aside his talent he also is acquainted with a foreign prince which is good for the relationship of the kingdom if he were to be crowned. Claudia seems to be always alone or with his confidant which seems to be son of either a duke or Marquis. Im not in favor with him to get together with Vio. I just want him to help her to be happy.

    Marin
    - she is the only decent character here. The only one who cares about Vio. She is more of a family than her bio father. She also reminds me of the maid of Iris in the common sense of a dukes daughter.

    Violette
    - i want her to be happy. Shame for the people that downplay here childhood trauma. Its a miracle that she didnt breakdown. Honestly I want her to find a decent guy that will love her wholeheartedly. Being a nun is not that bad because she can receive love from the children she might take care in the church orphanage which makes sense because she also an orphan if we think about it. Her mothers dead (and the love her mother gave her is not for her but for the father, heartbreaking. )And her father dont care about her and practically trying to disown her. I just want her to receive and give love to others that deserve it.

    all of the stated above are just my imagination created from my boredom because of the quarantine so dont take it so seriously
     
  15. everydayyy

    everydayyy New Member

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    I agree too that Vio is probably suffered the most in this story I think in her first life, she was just driven crazy by the need for someone (anyone) to love her and also the fact that she was mentally and physically abused by the people that should unconditionally love her? (her parents). She tried to get love from her mom, she tried to get it from her dad, and she tried to get it from the prince, but damn no luck. I think it just broke her mentally and of course her actions and trying to kill MJ are inexcusable, but honestly she was driven to the edge and it's just sad. Just let her be happy!!

    For MJ, I can understand where everyone's frustrations come from. I mean in the first story- she IS supposed to fit the mary sue stereotype. That's what these types of novels do lol In the first life we get a 'superficial' mary sue characterization where she is seen as perfect (i mean c'mon she's smart, beautiful, charms everyone, loves her evil sister despite almost being killed by her, etc) and can't do wrong, but in the second life we see that she is not perfect and she has flaws. Is she secretly evil? we don't know YET. I mean it's such a common trope and considering the tone of the novel I wouldn't completely cross it out :hmm::hmm:

    Anyway, please try to be civil to each other! remember this is just a fictional story! lol and for the love of god, please stop writing in giant ass paragraphs. It hurts my eyes trying to read through it :blobsob:
     
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  16. WinnieS

    WinnieS Well-Known Member

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    If I could like this a 1000x, I will. For me, you wrote down exactly what I felt about this story.
     
  17. Julveury

    Julveury Tea Lover

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    Sure is. This is exactly like what this thread is for like exactly a year ago :blob_catflip::blob_catflip:
     
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  18. ardills

    ardills Well-Known Member

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    I wish there would be [disscussion] [/disscussion] tag rather than
    yeah

    or at least you guys can give me warning that you're not talking spoilers so I won't bother reading the long passages.. and there's that Lcd thread for latest chapter disscussion, isn't there?
     
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  19. yourstrulylen

    yourstrulylen Well-Known Member

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    I feel you, sister I just read through the 20-page thread and have no idea whether to continue reading this or nah.

    From the discussions, I think I'll have to put this off for the time being seeing that there aren't a lot of spoilers. That must mean that the story isn't finished yet.

    Will get back to this though. Seems interesting enough. Hoping for a satisfying ending to an otherwise angst-filled novel.
     
    Nukuchan, bochucha, SueVal and 9 others like this.
  20. Mikaa

    Mikaa 〘༄⚘〙

    Joined:
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    Link
    Can someone gimme a link to novel, so I (and a lot of people) can MTL it? ( If they wanna, of course):cookie::aww::blobok::blob_pompom:blobmelt_thumbs
     
    Darcy likes this.