No it wasn't. If it was rhetorical, it would have been phrased differently. You even admit it wasn't when you point out it's intent lol Pretty sure MJ realized that Vio was unhappy, but hadn't connected the dots about exactly why (beyond the family situation) Not that I blame her, time-travel is icky like that XD Pretty sure they posted the literal chapter though. Like I said. Ignorant people don't know they're ignorant unless they're informed. It's literally what the word means XD
At first it was a question that I didn't expect an answer from but after rereading it those questions came to mind. Idk how I should have phrased it for it to be rhetorical. But I guess my English is not as good as I expected since its not my native language. That's y I said in some comments up that blaming MJ or not is a debatable topic as some ppl say that ignorance should be forgiven while few believe they should still be punished. Am sorry but I don't think ignorance work that way. It's a matter of logic afterall. It's only logical for someone to understand that their very life which caused vio's mother's situation would make violet uneasy around her. She should be able to read the mood even if her intelligence doesn't allow her to connect the dots. It's like u're saying she's stupid as she can't even read the mood but she is not. I personally think that if her actions causes too much harm, she should be punished. But she never harmed violet. It's simply her presence that's unbearable for vio. Thus I hope that at the end of the novel or at one point in time MJ stop clinging to her. I personally see MJ as someone obsessed with violet and getting rid of an obsessive person is a difficult thing to do even more so when she can't even read the mood... Reading the mood of a situation is a basic instinct of human and ignorance doesn't make someone unable to do so. That's not ignorance that stops her from realising her sister wants to be left alone, she simply doesn't want to admit it to herself and thus selfishly keeps clinging to vio.
This story really stresses me️️️ out yet i'm still skimming for spoilers..hehehe It would be much more less complicated if vio say it straight to mj's face that her presence is making her uncomfortable and she better keep a healthy distance from her (sadly, it's not the case).
Skimmed through the whole 40 pages, and guess what I got out of this? Nothing. this whole thread is literally like a blackhole. Out of curiosity you get closer to see what's inside, and like a vacuum you unwillingly get dragged inside the mess. You hope to find a way out, however the further you go in, the more frustrated you get cause you just realized there's no end to it.
There’s a pinned comment on the first page with a compilation of all the spoilers so you don’t have to go through each page. The work is incomplete and all the spoilers that exist have already been revealed. It’s mostly discussions at this point because there isn’t anything new to spoil.
Might have helped if it wasn't literally built as a counter argument XD Also no. It's not really up for debate. You can't blame someone for doing something they literally had no idea was wrong. Sorry, but it's ignorance. You think it's "logical" because you understand the situation. "Reading the mood" isn't something you're born with mate, it's something you develop via experience, experiences you happened to experience~ Experience MJ clearly lacks all things considered. This is why people are sure MJ was sheltered as hell. You can be intelligent and ignorant. These two things don't go hand in hand like you seem to think lol If anything, Vio is more to blame than MJ in this situation. She didn't say anything, and let MJ keep believing what she assumed was true because it's what she saw. You can't blame MJ for not being born omniscient like you apparently were lol Though at the end of the day, the blame really lies at the feet of crapdad. Actually you'll notice that almost half the chapters are missing on that table of contents~
Your description is funny lol But there are spoilers in the thread, how come you didn't find any of them?
Skimming it probably contributed to it lol I wouldn't be surprised if he only glanced at the first post on every page, would explain how he missed the bookmarks XD
No no don't get me wrong I didn't only glance on the first post I even skipped 85% of the discussions cause they kept on bringing up the same subject. I have other manhwas to read you know, I mean shouldn't a spoiler thread have an easy access to the SPOILERS ? I wanna know the juicy stuff rather than going through the heated arguments about the characters, yes we all know that the father is trash- I mean anyone besides the main characters are not worth to mention anyways, except for the maid, we, cool with her. And I'm not that bad heh, I actually found the small puzzles from each page and kind of completed the whole picture of it. But I just wanna complain cause I'm clearly disappointed cause I feel like I didn't get the ending I expected? It kinda felt like the MC didn't get any justice from all the things she's been through. But at least I know she ended up with the right dude, oh well.
@Thoughtsofmyreads Ok ok Just to confirm, but the novel isn't finished. With how slow it is, I don't think it's ending anytime soon. We're still waiting for the justice part
I think it is for debate. If someone like MJ in RL ended up getting someone killed due to her ignorance, the family would want her to be judge while the world would think she is ignorant so innocent. If an ignorant person does illial acts, by law she would be judged as she isn't the age to be considered a child. That's why we have lawyers for such cases. That's why I say an ignorant person can or cannot be judged for their bad deeds (based on outcome) in any case, is your opinion that she is completely innocent so she has a right to cling to violet in that way? Neither of us believe she should be punished in the way we want crappy dad to be. I personally think that as the story goes on, she should mature and personally decide to distance herself from vio or at least start to realise things around her. That's what we call character development (done that in my course). What do you think? What do u take experiences for! Lol! Everything u do can be considered experience therefore reading the mood is something that she should be able to do. Nobles gossip so people can hear. She can hear their bad gossip about her. She simply doesn't care. She might have had that excuse when she first came to live with vio but not now. No matter how much a parent try to shelter their child-its impossible to shield her from everything. That's why MJ is a very unrealistic person. In violet's defence, that's how trauma works. In a desperate way to avoid repeating history, she allows her to remain by her side. There is still a possibility her rejection would make her seem like a villain as this is how people view them. Plus, to make things worst, Claudia had to call her a villainess in the first chapters. As readers we would get angry at vio for remaining silent. I personally try my best to get in the shoes of each character to understand it better but it's difficult to understand MJ who is portrayed as the naive perfect princess.
Literally not the same thing. Your example is a lot more controversial than what's actually happening, and I refuse to even humor you with it. It also ignores the fact that we live in the 21st century with out 21st century views as opposed to the setting in the story, with its own set of views, culture, etc. Literally not the same thing. Drop it. MJ was living under a mistaken assumption. A mistaken assumption no one thought to rectify beyond Yulan after like, 100 chapters passed. You're basically just trying to vilify her at this point lol Unless Vio herself tells her that she want's nothing to do with her, MJ has little reason to do that. Maturity doesn't magically make someone omniscient. Also, character development isn't going to be that in your face about it. It's something that happens over the course of the story, not all at once. MJ knows Vio isn't happy so she tries to get answers. There is literally nothing wrong with wanting to understand what's happening. We seem to be missing quite a number of earlier spoilers though lol What do you take social experiences for? If her parents kept her sheltered from the outside world, it's only natural she wouldn't pick up on social cues many would find obvious. You act like nobles are gossiping about her in front of her when they wouldn't. Seriously, you're just trying to vilify her at this point in a poor attempt to justify your black and white narrative. And sorry, but it's not actually that difficult to shelter children enough for them not to understand what's going on in certain situations. You don't seem to understand what MJ's problem actually is. (She feels like a deconstruction if I'm being honest lol) So you give Vio a pass but bite into MJ because, what? She's the protagonist? This isn't a black and white situation mate XD There's no clear bad guy. It's just a collection of bad decisions and the results of said choices. It's not all that difficult to understand MJ, the "naive perfect princess" and result of her father's ideal life. She's literally written as a typical heroine. It's why I call her a (possible) deconstruction, because the author is basically invoking reality ensures. I mean, there's a table of content on the first page. Literally the second post.
First things first, it was an example it could have been MJ or any other ignorant person. My point was that u r looking at only one side of the coin. When ignorance causes harm, not everyone would consider the person innocent. That's all am saying. U consider her innocent. I consider her annoying and hpes at the end of the story she matures. I never said character development had to come instantly. I feel its starting to come now at 100 chapters and yulan finally made her realise some things. I am saying that as the story progresses, I hope that more things happen that makes her mature. I hope that by the end of the story, she is no longer exactly the same and as ignorant as she is now. U r right about the 3rd paragraph. Maybe as 21st century people, we want characters that we can link to. But we have been talking about this for a while with no end to it. So am gonna stop here. I don't like MJ because of how unrealistic she is.
I'm really not. You're comparing someone unknowingly making someone else feel uncomfortable with murdering them while not knowing murder is bad. There's no two ways about it, it's not the same thing. One of them is basically considered a universal taboo! If thinking she's unrealistic helps you sleep at night, then whatever. Doesn't change the fact that people like her exist in real life too. People that can't read the mood, and go about living their lives not realizing everyone around them doesn't like them. Welp, there goes my reply, time to lurk around till the next chapter is posted XD
As I said before it was an example. U can replace murder with any small crime like theft. Let's say her ignorance made her take an object on the table that belonged to the host of a party that she went to. The outcome would be that she still stole something even if she was naive. What I truly mean is that ignorance ≠ innocence. All along we were talking about her distancing herself from violet. There's no reason for her to be this clingy. There are other things that she can do without violet around her so why is it that she has to have violet around her most of the time!! Am not trying to make her into a villain but a bad person because she has bad morals like obsession, self centeredness and selfishness. U cannot say she doesn't have those characteristics as it has been shown that she actually does. Your arguments make her sound completely innocent and only her parents are completely to blame. But that's not true. Every human has the ability to differentiate between right and wrong. Even without knowing the full story, the behavior of the father towards violet should have felt wrong to her but she did not defend violet. Not being liked by outsiders and not knowing your existence makes your sister uncomfortable are 2 different things. Afterall vio is supposed to be her most beloved family member yet she could not even tell that violet is being forced by the father to help her even though she lives with them. Stop blaming the parents for everything. Change comes from oneself. Where there is a will, there's a way. She herself does not try to change. Thus I believe she is responsible for her acts just as the parents r. This argument has been going on for days. So now that I have made my point clear. I don't think I can make it any clearer, feel free to reply. I would read only but not answer.
Bad examples are bad examples lol What you're describing, and what's actually happening are still two completely different things lol ignorance ≠ innocence doesn't apply here, because MJ isn't actually doing anything wrong. There's no reason for her not to be either. Who hurt you Khadz? You mean besides the fact that she has no friends, and her father probably doesn't let her out on her own for anything beyond attending school or events (with him)? Gee, I wonder why she spends most of her time with her sister, who she lives with~ You are. You even admitted it in the same sentence lol Sure I can, and I'll say it again because your earlier point about what makes her a "bad person" applies to literally every character in this story, Vio included lol Does this mean they're bad people too? Because she kind of is. It's why she's considered pitiful by some, a deconstruction by others, and both too few. You can't fault someone for not knowing they aren't doing something wrong. Especially when no one's actually informing them of it. If anything the blame lies on the person keeping their mouth shut lol Sorry, but that's wrong. "Right and Wrong" are concepts that we created and are ingrained in our culture. We aren't born with them installed in our minds. What you see as right and wrong isn't going to be what someone else see's as right and wrong. There are parallel's sure, but there's no such thing as "true" moral justice. Literal wars have been started from this fact mate, actual people have died because of this universal truth XD Pretty sure the scene where Vio runs away in her PJ's was the first time her father was violent. MJ actually defended her too. Your argument is invalid. They're really not. They're actually more related than your bad examples were lol After all, their father was pretty subtle with his dislike. Unless you were aware of it going in, I'm not surprised MJ (the outsider who's just getting to know her new sister) wouldn't pick up on it. Again, ignorance is scary~ Stop trying to blame MJ for things she isn't doing. Crapdad literally married a woman, had a kid with her, ditched her, fathered another kid with a different woman, then waited for his first wife to die before coming back and using his first daughter to keep his status and subsequently raise the status of his new family. And what's MJ done? Try to play nice with a sister she doesn't realize kind of despises her because said sister decides to act like she doesn't. Yeah, MJ is the root of all evil. She's Angra Mainyu incarnate alright. You're right, change does come from ones self. But you're forgetting one key factor in all this, just one. There's no way in hell change is happening if you don't actually know what needs changing. If there's no will, there's no way. Yulan waited a very long time to spell it out for her. Her actions so far have shown that, no, she's not a bad person. She's just an idiot. This was an argument? lol, I have yet to see some retorts. I saw the points you made. They're wrong. You don't seem to understand what Ignorance actually is, or the fact that things like "right" and "wrong" aren't something people are just born with. No offense. Let's hope you actually follow through with your words though XD I too grow tired of this discussion.
MJ only defended violent after she was informed of her past. Not before. Because u consider her an idiot that's why u say she is innocent. But u cannot consider someone an idiot if they have intelligence. Up until now u have been confusing ignorance with idiotic. But they r different. Morals r different for each person. That's true. But anyone can say for sure that if another person forces u to do something, it's wrong. As someone forced to remain at home, she should have felt its unfair to her and therefore understood. Around ch 35 or so when vio said she wants to be alone, MJ thought vio was angry with her but she doesn't even question herself why? This shows that she is self centered and selfish and thus a bad person. Villain is what u call evil. Bad is different. Am sorry to say this but before I commented on ignorance ≠ innocence, I actually asked an elder about this. And their answer was. "an ignorant person is not a fool. Therefore he/she is able to tell right from wrong." Talking about when she barged into violets room to ask about the situation, she was actually more concerned about herself than violet. She started crying about her own feelings. That again makes her in the wrong. I have lost count of the amt of times I've said she's not a villain but a bad person. U should be able to realize that by the fact I said I only wanted her to distance herself from violet at the end of the story. Right or wrong is so thing innate. The fact humans can feel the unfairness in a situation proves the point that right and wrong is something innate. For instance, a wrong action can be considered allowed if in a dire situation but the same thing would definitely be considered wrong in a normal situation. Right and wrong just changes based on the choice we have. MJ had the choice B4 to stop her father from reprimanding violet or to let him do so and the moral thing to do here is obvious. I never defended violent in her 1st timeline. Not once because at the end of the day she was very wrong. But she learnt from past mistakes even going as far as to consider her love for Claudia as disgusting. Her mother is in part responsible for the way she ended but she was equally responsible in first timeline. . She should have already gotten ample reason to stay away from violet now that she knows what happened to her. As I have said, she is obsessed with violet and that's why she can't bring herself to stay away.
MJ went to Violet because she was told about the fact that Vio wasn't as happy as MJ thought. Because she isn't omniscient. No one is. If someone acts like nothing is wrong, most people will assume nothing is wrong. We aren't gods with the power to just know everything without being informed about it lol And sorry, but you actually can consider someone an idiot despite being intelligent. Though, I suppose nincompoop would be more appropriate. Why would MJ wonder if Vio was angry at her? From her perspective, she's done nothing to make her angry. You keep forgetting that different perspectives exist, or the fact that Vio's actions and feeling are two different things, and MJ can't read her mind. What part of being an ignorant deconstruction don't you understand? MJ is literally a heroine in a story being told from the Villainess's perspective. Also, MJ did try to stop her father from hurting Vio, it's what let her get away remember? She still doesn't really have much of a reason to stay away from Vio because Vio herself hasn't told her too. She isn't a villain simply because you don't like her mate, it doesn't work like that XD Also, what happened to...? Looks like you didn't even read before you answered lol
Me too...buuuuut, I don't want it to have a rushed ending, that's also a big no-no. It's awful when you have those novels that are lengthened by the plot that keeps dragging on and suddenly it's just clumsily wrapped together at the end. The pace of the novel is really shitty tho. We don't have some ups and downs. We had ONE dramatic scene(the one with the father beating Vio) and the rest a constant depressing mood speckled with some scarce fluffy scenes with Vio and Yulan/maid. IMO, it's not gonna end anytime soon tbh. I don't think the father's just gonna magically realise he's wrong. Vio hasn't met the grandfather much. We've got Vio's female friend/classmate and Yulan's male friend who we haven't delved into much. And then MJ's creepy mom, which needs to be addressed. I don't dare hope for the ending to come soon, but I just want some improvements. Vio is too powerless, after so many chapters I wanna see some evolution in her and for her to start fighting back and do something other than run, shut up and endure!