is it so hard to do some generally easy things?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Firious, Jan 11, 2018.

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  1. Sheepo

    Sheepo 『Pyoo's Fated One』

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    The reason why services are pushed to third world countries is rather a problem of living standard not being reflected in currency rates accurately. People in third world countries generally have a lower living standard and need less money. Thus they work for a lower wage (after currency conversion).
    Additionally third world countries often lack taxes or additional costs the employer pays for his employee in western countries.
    Here in germany for example it's a rule of thumb that your employer pays about 2 times as much for you, as you actually get paid. Because stuff like pension and accident insurance is divided between employer and employee (about 50/50).
    Many third world countries simply don't have those....

    But that's completely besides the point you were making earlier, that professional translator get paid more than an amateur (which is only reasonable, because the professional is just a better translator...)

    Edit:
    I already have a solution for your amateur translator. They simply have to get better at translating.
    According to you, yourself, they will naturally get paid more then...........
     
  2. krrizis

    krrizis Runs Ainushi, Read18 & Chaleuria

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    @Wujigege And being a veteran from the ol’ manga scanlations world, harking to the good days where a passion project run purely (stressing this again!) as a fan translation project, I really still don’t believe in your point about selling myself short.

    Yes, I may wear a lot of hats but if I’m releasing sporadically, once or twice a month due to the nature of my job and so does everyone on my team (we don’t pay anyone for Ainushi as it’s fan based so there’s also the offer of a flexible release schedule), then I don’t see why people would be willing to pay me say $10 or more per chapters.

    Readers want both quality and quantity. Having a steady flow of releases is a means of attracting your readerbase to buy into you as they’re paying to upkeep your releases. If we can’t afford both of them, then it’s not worth much.

    Also, let’s be honest here. How many of you actually know Ainushi? Or read any of our works?
     
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  3. Sheepo

    Sheepo 『Pyoo's Fated One』

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    I do...
     
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  4. krrizis

    krrizis Runs Ainushi, Read18 & Chaleuria

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    Much love then <3
     
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  5. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    *hopes to see the next Liz chapter soon*
    *hugs*

    Take your time though! ^^)/
     
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  6. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    Let's agree to disagree on the reason jobs move to third world countries.
    But I made my point, even if a translator says $70 per bonus chapter, it is still a steal.
    You can't equate products with services.

    Your solution won't work, when an amateur gets better they shut down the website and get a professional job, unless they are in a country that doesn't pay well.
    Some doctors earn less than what many big time translators get per month on their patreon.

    @krrizis
    Let's assume donations per chapter are off the table. There is still nothing wrong for your group to own a patreon.
    Even charities have paid staff. Web hosting, developee/ programmer costs can't all be covered by volunteer labor.
    I watched a pretty good Ted Talk on how the charity model isn't sustainable.
    Personally, I believe charities should be profitable so they can grow and increase the amount of good they can do.
    I rather charities earn money and do more good than soulless corporations

     
  7. Rumby

    Rumby Rumbly Tumbly

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    Hmm I think in emergency or unexpected situations it's not possible to give heads up tbh as not everything is within our control.

    And I think if someone is paying or supporting your work, it makes more sense to at least explain that something happened that was out of the translator's control and made them disappear for a while......and if they can own up to it, to save themselves from getting haters who just think the translator purposely ignored them and slacked off.
    I do agree that it may not be necessary to explain their absence for some people because some people don't need to hear excuses or etc. , but others who pay and support could demand those, so tbh better cover your bases than get attacked for no reason. >.<"

    Otherwise the translator is not obligated to translate because they're not being paid, I think them disappearing without explanation or even disappearing without a trace and dropping projects is reasonable. So I appreciate the many translators who translate in their spare time and their dedication to their projects.
     
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  8. krrizis

    krrizis Runs Ainushi, Read18 & Chaleuria

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    That's a noble idea.
    Hard to execute but noble.
    Bare in mind though, humans by nature are greedy. If charity organizations get too full of themselves, you'll see soon be seeing these corps actively campaigning for profits whilst the money goes into their pockets.
    To find someone altruistic, if any, is very difficult.
     
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  9. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    Checks and regulations are needed I agree but earning money should not be stigmatized.
    I remember an article on Reader's Digest where a CEO of a charity earned $30,000 per hour orrd something along those lines
    Abuse like that happens
    Closest thing to the article I found was this
    www.rd.com/culture/how-charities-spend-money/
    It is probably $300,000 per year
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11435754/32-charity-bosses-paid-over-200000-last-year.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  10. Sheepo

    Sheepo 『Pyoo's Fated One』

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    It's fine with me if you disagree... But that means you disagree with facts... There is nothing really I can do about that, can I?

    And what do you mean - my solution does not work? It works.... If they didn't suck at what they are doing, they would get better pay... That's what you told me. That was even the only argument you gave me... If a translator is better than other translators, he gets paid more...

    And "if they get good, they apply for a real job" is not true...
    They should be translating novels as fan translator, that means for free, anyway... If they don't, then they receive payment form their reader and should already have their own company running.
    (Yes, receiving payment for translating without having a registered company is still illegal. So stop telling me they don't have to be a company. Calling it a "donation" instead of payment doesn't make it any better either, because it still ist nothing but payment... In fact, that actually would make it even worse, because they are abusing the donation system for tax evasion, because donations generally receive less or even no taxes at all depending on the country - something a business major actually should know, but I digress...

    And just as a little extra - Patreon pledges are not donations... You have to pay taxes for them, because they count as regular income - unless you are a legally recognized non-profit-organization... which I believe not a single translator wants to be...)

    And assuming they really take their novel translations seriously and want to make money with it (and deliver according translation quality), registered a company (or freelancer business), set up a site and got their schedule running - then it's just a matter of marketing on how much they receive. Because if they really are as good as professional translator, all they have to do is pick a popular novel...

    And please don't tell me that doesn't work... That's how all the big translation groups did it... That's how they became "big" in the first place... They just translated better than other translators and managed to market their skills accordingly.

    It's the perfect example on why our economy works as well as it does. Equal opportunity for everyone...

    imo what you want is communism. Which we already proofed doesn't work...

    Edit:
    I have to correct myself - what you want is socialism, which in all honesty doesn't work either...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  11. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    Equal opportunity is a myth.
    You want free stuff and you call me a socialist haha.
    I will say it again, you don't know as much about economics as you think but again lets agree to disagree.
    Labor is never free if you do not pay for it someone else will. So asking for donations is fair to me
    The laws are more flexible than you think, as long as you don't make a very high amount, Patreon pledges, paypal donations are fine without needing to register a company

    Charities pay their staff $300,000 per year.
    Even volunteers at local pantries get a meal and you want fan translators to get nothing?
    Give me a break.
    I hate that type of thinking. It is tantamount to slavery.
    Let's agree to disagree
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  12. huskybreed

    huskybreed Member

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    Woah, I don't even recognize that. Nice eyes.
     
  13. Fuyuneko

    Fuyuneko winter cat

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    Where do you get the $300k?

    Maybe, we volunteered at different places, but usually the nonprofits I volunteered at don't give the volunteers any benefit. Why would a volunteer take even a nominal amount of resources from a charity they support?

    Fan translators translate because they like the story a lot and want to share it with other people.

    Slavery is an extremely atrocious thing that still happens in modern day. Do you really want to compare people translating in their free time because they want to slavery? The mere fact that fan translators do this entirely of their own free will means it doesn't fit the definition of slavery.
     
  14. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    That's not what I said. Since you cherry picked I won't continue
    and I had sources to back what I said.
    See you around
     
  15. gggo

    gggo Well-Known Member

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    Well. It's really understandable where you're coming from. It's funny that whenever there are complaints against translators, they would always rationalize and justify their actions other than simply admit the fact that they don't give a crap about their readers (which is a fact). Because the reason they started translating is most likely for either own self-development, popularity, money or bragging rights. Let's not kid ourselves, it only takes five minutes to google how to change the permalinks in the wordpress settings and learn the specifics of it.
     
  16. Fuyuneko

    Fuyuneko winter cat

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    I didn't know the word for permalinks was before you said it. It would have taken a lot longer to google how to change something when I don't what I should be googling. Or, even that this was an option, so it would have never occurred to me this was something I could change.

    Maybe, you can make an easy guide for stuff that seems obvious to you, but not to beginning translators? That would be really helpful.

    I agree with the first part of your comment. Readers don't seem to be the highest priority to fan translators. Which is fine. Is there a reason why readers should take a priority over other things? If every translator noted on their website that their next update is TBD/unknown, does that provide useful information?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  17. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    If people didn't care one bit about the readers, they wouldn't put their translations online in the first place... >.>
     
  18. Fuyuneko

    Fuyuneko winter cat

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    When I started translating, it was because I really liked that drama and just wanted more people to be able to enjoy it. Of course, translating also wasn't high on my priorities. And when I was busy, I would just stop. Right now, I earn money in return for translating more chapters. But, I would still translate at a slower pace even if I didn't earn any money because I like those novels.

    Self-development - I already knew Chinese.
    Popularity - Only a few people read my translations. Maybe 3 or 5 people? It wasn't a popular drama. *
    Money - Didn't try to make any
    bragging rights - Not sure why this is brag worthy...

    * There are so many novels on NU that get translated even though they're not popular. If the translator's goal is popularity, they wouldn't translate those novels.
     
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  19. gggo

    gggo Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys, I'm just stressing the fact that at the end of the day, translators have their own personal concerns that takes precedence over any random reader. Also, my example about using google search is a bit wrong. What I mean to emphasize is they will not unnecessarily burden themselves with something the readers can probably live with.
     
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  20. Sheepo

    Sheepo 『Pyoo's Fated One』

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    "Let's agree we disagree"
    That's not a solution...
    You tell me delusional things like "it's unfair that amateurs get paid less than a professional" while at the same time saying that that's how it should be.
    And when I point you out, all you say is that I don't know about it, and you know more and are right, without providing any information on why I'm wrong...

    I can agree that we disagree, that doesn't make you right though...

    Comparing fan translating to charity is wrong.

    Saying that no labor is free is also wrong.

    And the laws are not as flexible I you think they are?... True, there are countries that have tax allowance (and I only assume that's what you are talking about, because again: you refuse to provide any information, and just keep saying that you have those magical arguments out there in the universe, somewhere, long lost and forgotten by humanity, and only you remember it...) but so what?... That doesn't invalidate my point in any way...
    SImply because you don't earn enough through your translation income to pay taxes, doesn't mean you don't have to report it as income, now does it?
    If you have regular income, you have to report it. Not reporting income is tax evasion, regardless of weither you actually had to pay taxes because of tax exemption regulations in your country.
     
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